Ruta Stage 1 *Spoiler*

Quite Frankly
Quite Frankly Posts: 386
edited February 2010 in Pro race
Top ten:

1. PARDILLA BELLÓN, Sergio ESP CMO 4h11'55"
2. VAN DEN BROECK, Jurgen BEL OLO a 09"
3. CUNEGO, Damiano ITA LAM a 13"
4. VAZQUEZ, Manuel ESP ACA a 13"
5. MOLLEMA, Bauke NED RAB a 21"
6. ROGERS, Michael AUS THR a 21"
7. MORENO, Javier ESP ACA a 28"
8. MORENO, Daniel ESP OLO a 29"
9. VANENDERT, Jelle BEL OLO a 29"
10.LÖVKVIST, Thomas SWE SKY a 31"

There was a very steep climb at the end of the stage. Wiggins finished 7.21 down. Cummings was the highest British rider in 20th, 1.14 behind the leader.
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Comments

  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Quite Frankly wrote:
    Wiggins finished 7.21 down.

    WTF! Why? That is super lightweight. A long way for him to go before he can start playing with the big boys.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    And btw, if I remember correctly he said that he was going to try for the overall...
    Contador is the Greatest
  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Quite Frankly wrote:
    Wiggins finished 7.21 down.

    WTF! Why? That is super lightweight. A long way for him to go before he can start playing with the big boys.

    That's quite surprising. He may have had a bad day. To be fair, I'd say finishing 4th in the Tour was playing with the big boys. So he's already started that.

    Unless by the big boys you mean just Contador.
    Scottish and British...and a bit French
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    We'll see, he's said he wants to be on form for the Tour of Catalonia, which - after a calendar change - now happens in March.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,104
    Cavendish was way back. He'll need a FF talking to soon too. :roll:
  • William H
    William H Posts: 61
    frenchfighter wrote:
    And btw, if I remember correctly he said that he was going to try for the overall...

    You remember incorrectly.

    "There's a nice 10km time trial in the Ruta, and I'll have a punt at that," Wiggins said.

    "I won't go for the GC because we've other guys like Simon Gerrans for that. For me it's about riding well for the team and then the time trial"

    "My first go for overall will probably be at the Vuelta Murcia. "
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    People use races for different things....think the only time you can be sure anyone is giving it their all is if they said so or it's the TdF/major classic. Other than that I wouldn't look at these results and try to judge TdF form, quite ridculous.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Finishing that far down when you consider yourself capable of winning the Tour is shocking. Real champions don't just turn up to pedal round.

    As for Cav...TOTALLY different.

    You may differ from my opinion which is absolutely fine.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Finishing that far down when you consider yourself capable of winning the Tour is shocking. Real champions don't just turn up to pedal round.

    As for Cav...TOTALLY different.

    You may differ from my opinion which is absolutely fine.

    So real champions are going full bore every race from February to October then? Is that feasable or desirable?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Finishing that far down when you consider yourself capable of winning the Tour is shocking. Real champions don't just turn up to pedal round.

    As for Cav...TOTALLY different.

    You may differ from my opinion which is absolutely fine.

    So real champions are going full bore every race from February to October then? Is that feasable or desirable?

    It probably is if you adopt the "real champion's" schedule Contador did last season - just how many days' racing post-Tour was that? :roll:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • chris halford
    chris halford Posts: 16
    look at the history of cycling ,indurain used to have a quiet build up to the tour,its to early in the seaon to be going full gas if you want to win the tour.surely what matters is the result in july.the history books wont really pay much attention to who won this race :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :?:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    What can I say. The Tour is not the be all and end all to me. Maybe to people who don't know anything much about cycling.

    There are other races (note, races, not training).

    Some riders are attackers and performers, some are cruisers.

    Some poeple are champions, some aren't.

    Mr Mat, before you talk about Contador I suggest you have a look at his palmares. He won a lot last year, from the get go, as usual; more than all the other GC contenders. Compare that to the other riders who you think are good...and who think they can win the Tour.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    frenchfighter, this was Contador's first race since July. He might win a few early season races but he's not in the mold of others who race throughout the year.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Kléber wrote:
    frenchfighter, this was Contador's first race since July. He might win a few early season races but he's not in the mold of others who race throughout the year.

    Now that's just not true is it?

    He did that beano to Curaco!
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I expect the current WC will probably race a pretty full program.

    He's been on the attack in January and I expect we'll see him in October.

    Contador does things the Lance was and basically doesn't race post-Tour.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Yes I am well aware of that thanks. I was talking pre July not post.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Oh and in case you guys forgot. He has won the Vuelta.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    frenchfighter wrote:
    What can I say. The Tour is not the be all and end all to me. Maybe to people who don't know anything much about cycling.

    There are other races (note, races, not training).

    Some riders are attackers and performers, some are cruisers.

    Some poeple are champions, some aren't.

    Mr Mat, before you talk about Contador I suggest you have a look at his palmares. He won a lot last year, from the get go, as usual; more than all the other GC contenders. Compare that to the other riders who you think are good...and who think they can win the Tour.

    I'd be amazed if BW thinks he can win the Tour this year.

    AC is lucky, he can keep form for the early races, then take a big training block in May-June, then win the Tour. Others are less lucky - for example needing to impress ASO early; physiologically etc.which drives their performance & schedule

    Anyway, AC doesn't go out to win everything - unless that was his phantom twin acting as Valv.piti's super domestique to beat Cadel at the Dauphine last year.

    Not the behavoiur of a 'real champion', although you may of course disagree.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Kléber wrote:
    frenchfighter, this was Contador's first race since July. He might win a few early season races but he's not in the mold of others who race throughout the year.

    Please provide many examples of GC riders who race throughout the year and win?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • camerone
    camerone Posts: 1,232
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Oh and in case you guys forgot. He has won the Vuelta.

    could you remind us where he finished in TDF the year he won please
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    And when he won the Tour in 07 he only did Missouri after the Tour.

    Last year he didn't race at all between Pais Vasco and the Dauphine.

    I'm a Bertie fan but you really need a bit of balance. He ain't no Pip Gilbert or Evans in terms of racing a full season.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    calvjones wrote:
    Anyway, AC doesn't go out to win everything - unless that was his phantom twin acting as Valv.piti's super domestique to beat Cadel at the Dauphine last year.

    Firstly, Valverde is a superb rider. Results through the year.

    Secondly, re the Dauphine, do you really think Contador couldn't have gone for the win if he wanted to? He is good friends with Valverde and let and helped him win....a major reason for that was so that Caisse would help him in the Tour (as Astana wouldn't). Witness the Caisse rider who passed him a bottle on the Ventoux for one example.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    iainf72 wrote:
    He ain't no Pip Gilbert or Evans in terms of racing a full season.

    I made it pretty clear that I was refering to GC riders. Riders who think they can win a GT. Hence the point about Wiggins.

    You can't really compare Stage Racers to Classics riders to sprinters very well.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    frenchfighter, this was Contador's first race since July. He might win a few early season races but he's not in the mold of others who race throughout the year.

    Please provide many examples of GC riders who race throughout the year and win?

    Please define "many"

    But I give you, Eddy Merckx
    Bernard Hinault
    Laurent Fingnon
    Miguel Indurain
    Denis Menchov
    Alejandro Valverde
    Alex Zulle

    Off the top of my head.

    I'd put Kelly and Millar in there too, but you could argue they weren't really GC riders.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited February 2010
    Ok let me be more precise. CURRENT GC riders.

    You give me good examples which I totally agree with. They are GREATS (apart from Menchov and Zulle). They are Champions. They are the riders I am refering to.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Ok let me be more precise. CURRENT GC riders.

    You give me good examples which I totally agree with. They are GREATS (apart from Menchov and Zulle)

    Hard to do though, as at any given moment there are probably only 5-7 riders who can be considered genuine GC contenders. We are in an era, currently, of specialisation where riders base their entire season around one or two races. As you say, Contador races a decent amount pre-tour, but does nothing afterwards. Same with the Schlecks. Sastre rides all year round and is normally in the front, but doesn't win much, he never has. Does he make your list?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,104
    The underlying point remains, that Wiggins should choose his schedule and race how he sees fit rather than try to win fish and chippers to keep internet forum people happy.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Valverde, Evans, Andy Schleck, Frank Schleck, Nibali, Kreuziger. Even Wiggins landed a couple of small wins, one in April and one in October.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Valverde and Evans are current examples.

    This is all not the point though. Races like Andalucia are real objectives for some, and training races for others.

    The fact that Wiggins cam in 7 minutes in a race like Andalucia tells us nothing about his fitness level.
    It does not even mean someone is not a 'full season' racer. Even full season racers need to take it easy in February now and then.

    The mentioning of the likes of Merckx and Hinault is interesting - back in their days any race in early february was just a relaxed piano piano procession in the sun.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    It is hard to do as the others are no where near as good as Contador. It doesn't matter how many riders there are...top 10 riders in a GT is a good place to start comparisons.

    Check my signature. Sastre is there. Winning isn't all for me as I have said before.
    Contador is the Greatest

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