High Cadence is just not for me...8-(

ut_och_cykla

I think its often the case that higher cadence /same speed tends to increase heart rate - certainly the case for me anyway (and other posters here). But it must also be a matter of what feels best, muscle fibre make up, perhasp even position on bike. For long rides I dont worry about cadence - just use what feels comfy adn gives reasonable speed. For training I try different cadences above & below 'comfort zone' - to broaden repertoire, get pulse up more , provide mental variation etc.

jgsi

ut_och_cykla wrote:

. For training I try different cadences above & below 'comfort zone' - to broaden repertoire, get pulse up more , provide mental variation etc.

Certainly helps to stop the '1 Trick pony' syndrome.
Knowing how to vary it is a good piece to have in the armoury... however.. when you are on the wheel behind someone on a hill and suddenly they quicken the pace (cadence) and you cant respond, it is already too late........... :-(

Brassknocker

I think that leg length must also have something to do with a rider's cadence!? Forces and moments on the muscles - it's levers innit!

My cadence is very low and I have very long legs - a higher cadence just feels wrong to me.

Jan U appears to have long femurs!! ...and Indurain too for that matter!

Pokerface

freehub wrote:

I find at lower cadence, like 75RPM, I am putting out the most power, like on the turbo I was doing a steady 350W at 75RPM up this 3%, I switch to high cadence and I was putting out slightly less wattage but also at the same time my HR was going even higher and I was getting far too tired compared to how I would have being getting at 75RPM.

Will - can you explain to me how you manage to go up a gradient of any degree while on a turbo? A turbo is essentially flat so how do you think you are controlling gradients? I'm just curious.

Also, if you can comfortably push out 350w - then you should be racing. That is an impressive figure. Unless it was just for a minute.

redddraggon

Pokerface wrote:

freehub wrote:

I find at lower cadence, like 75RPM, I am putting out the most power, like on the turbo I was doing a steady 350W at 75RPM up this 3%, I switch to high cadence and I was putting out slightly less wattage but also at the same time my HR was going even higher and I was getting far too tired compared to how I would have being getting at 75RPM.

Will - can you explain to me how you manage to go up a gradient of any degree while on a turbo? A turbo is essentially flat so how do you think you are controlling gradients? I'm just curious.

Also, if you can comfortably push out 350w - then you should be racing. That is an impressive figure. Unless it was just for a minute.

I think H has got some sooperdooper turbos, that must change resistance according to a plan/schedule, and so can create a virtual gradient.

Slow1972

redddraggon wrote:

I think H has got some sooperdooper turbos, that must change resistance according to a plan/schedule, and so can create a virtual gradient.

Computrainer, virtual gradient requiring more power to sustain the same speed.

Pokerface

Slow1972 wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I think H has got some sooperdooper turbos, that must change resistance according to a plan/schedule, and so can create a virtual gradient.

Computrainer, virtual gradient requiring more power to sustain the same speed.

I have something similar on my bike. It's called gears. 8)

freehub

Pokerface wrote:

freehub wrote:

I find at lower cadence, like 75RPM, I am putting out the most power, like on the turbo I was doing a steady 350W at 75RPM up this 3%, I switch to high cadence and I was putting out slightly less wattage but also at the same time my HR was going even higher and I was getting far too tired compared to how I would have being getting at 75RPM.

Will - can you explain to me how you manage to go up a gradient of any degree while on a turbo? A turbo is essentially flat so how do you think you are controlling gradients? I'm just curious.

Also, if you can comfortably push out 350w - then you should be racing. That is an impressive figure. Unless it was just for a minute.

No, it's not for long 350W, my last average was 236 for a 15 mile ride, but I've not done a ride on the turbo yet where I am 100% fresh. When I'm on the hills I can hold about 300W fine, but not on the flat

The gradient is just resistance innit.

Pokerface

freehub wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

freehub wrote:

I find at lower cadence, like 75RPM, I am putting out the most power, like on the turbo I was doing a steady 350W at 75RPM up this 3%, I switch to high cadence and I was putting out slightly less wattage but also at the same time my HR was going even higher and I was getting far too tired compared to how I would have being getting at 75RPM.

Will - can you explain to me how you manage to go up a gradient of any degree while on a turbo? A turbo is essentially flat so how do you think you are controlling gradients? I'm just curious.

Also, if you can comfortably push out 350w - then you should be racing. That is an impressive figure. Unless it was just for a minute.

No, it's not for long 350W, my last average was 236 for a 15 mile ride, but I've not done a ride on the turbo yet where I am 100% fresh. When I'm on the hills I can hold about 300W fine, but not on the flat

The gradient is just resistance innit.

You'd be better off getting your power numbers for TIMES, not distances. It's easier to compare results when you say "I did 236w for 40 minutes", not for 16 miles, etc.

Power measurements are usually based on time, not distance. Takes the terrain out of the equation, etc.

freehub

Well I did 236W average for 42mins. I've not done an hour yet but it'll come.

Pokerface

freehub wrote:

Well I did 236W average for 42mins. I've not done an hour yet but it'll come.

Much better. 8)

amaferanga

freehub wrote:

Well I did 236W average for 42mins. I've not done an hour yet but it'll come.

Based on the average speed of the rides you've posted up here, I would guess that you could hold much more than 236 Watts for 42 minutes.

freehub

amaferanga wrote:

freehub wrote:

Well I did 236W average for 42mins. I've not done an hour yet but it'll come.

Based on the average speed of the rides you've posted up here, I would guess that you could hold much more than 236 Watts for 42 minutes.

Maybe, my mind works diffo on the road and I don't have a power meter on my bike

I did 287W Avg for 25 mins today, I'm on again tomoz for a 15miler like. About 4 weeks ago I remember only averaged about 206W for 31:41.

I've improved by like 80W from since 2 week ago.

The reason it was only 25mins was cause the 10 miler finished, thought about doing a 15 miler after but it was like 8PM and I did not want to be there till late, 9 mile ride home.

Pokerface

Will - After a warm-up, try doing a 5 minute all-out effort, then 5 minutes easy, followed by 20 minutes as hard as you can. Post up your 20 minute power. Don't do this exercise on distance, but solely based on time.*

*(If you can).

P.S. 287 for 25 mins is a good improvement. But I'd bet you could do better if you focus.

rick_chasey

JimmyK wrote:

I find it of interest how the 100+ rpm geezers can sustain it. At 90 rpm my thigh muscles literally turn to lead . Its weird how a bigger gear at 75rpm doesnt seem to effect me at all :?

Easy. I found the more I rode the quicker I liked my legs turning.

Mashing burns me up very quickly.

Good traning though.

Turning a lower gear naturally makes small accelerations a little bit easier.

The whole Ullrich vs Armstrong thing was that Armstrong had a much sharper acceleration a) because he was probably just better when they were racing, but b) because he had the cadence to do it.

Anyway, that Ullrich really mashes is a bit of a myth.

He still turns a good fast gear compared to some of the TT mashers you get in the Fens. It just wasn't quite like Armstrong's

Observe.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39ahBFGnuk

Dgh

sroberson

For some one like Lance who has a HUGE VO2 max, it is a good way to ride.

Lance doesn't have a HUGE VO2 max, at least by multiple winner of GT standards. LeMond had the biggest, Hinault and Indurain both higher than LA.

What is interesting, however, is that LA hasn't seemed to have the leg/knee problems that some riders do.

freehub

Pokerface wrote:

Will - After a warm-up, try doing a 5 minute all-out effort, then 5 minutes easy, followed by 20 minutes as hard as you can. Post up your 20 minute power. Don't do this exercise on distance, but solely based on time.*

*(If you can).

P.S. 287 for 25 mins is a good improvement. But I'd bet you could do better if you focus.

I think tonight I might just take it steady at 200W to loosen up my legs, for some reason my calf muscles have got tight and feel crap today, woke up and they don't feel much good, maybe a steady ride to the bike shop will loosen em up.

Kléber

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

The "Lance is high cadence and Jan is low cadence" mantra is also a myth, mostly a figment of commentators' imaginations.

Exactly. Although Armstrong did have a higher than average cadence but look at the numerous videos, for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39ahBFGnuk, and you will see Ullrich hardly grinds the gears. His upper body can sway more so this gives the impression that he's labouring but that wasn't really so.

One distinction between elite riders and amateurs is the cadence when climbing, an amateur will simply labour uphill whilst a pro can turn the pedals smoothly.

To those wanting a smoother style it is possible but takes plenty of time to learn. Start by riding with a high cadence at all times, even spinning downhill.

boneyjoe

Have to agree with the original poster. Also find my ideal for climbing is in the 70s. Did the Isle of Man End2End last year - 1500m of steep off-road climbing - and can honestly say that no-one came past me on the climbs. Well ok, I was hardly in the lead, but finished in top 25% of an 850 strong flield.

However, I do have a tendency to suffer from bad cramp at around the 3hr mark. Could big gears / slower cadence have anything to do with this, or are there other more significant factors? - eg the fact my training rides are about 2hrs max!