High Cadence is just not for me...8-(

JimmyK

Like many others , I have watched in awe as Lance powered his way past competitors on hills with super cadence ability, how did the guy not wear himself out to the point of exhaustion :shock:

Ive tried and tried and tried to up my cadence on uphills but always came to the same conclusion.............further into the ride and my legs were totally shot to bits. Im not talking about Lance cadences 120+ rpm, no, no. In my instance , I am referring to 90 rpm cadence but it just appears that it is not for me at all :oops:

The common denominator on all my best rides was a steady cadence around 75 rpm and leaning more towards ulrich riding style and bigger gears. Ive done half centuries 18.5 - 19.0 av mph using this style and have hardly broken sweat. It appears that riding style keeps my heartrate a LOT lower, leg fatigue is cut in half and breathing is completely under control, whereas when I up the cadence to 90 rpm, my heartrate rises quickly and I am breathing like a horse who has just run the national.........add to that the shot legs :roll: and its not the best feeling in the world for me.

I perform better when I ride ulrich style , doesnt seem to be much I can do about that. Id love to tackle climbs the way lance did , I just adore watching a human machine of perfection in action........but alas, my body make up doesnt lend itself towards it.

I know we have the high cadence brigade here, but are there other riders like me who give their best at lower cadences and bigger gears ? What element of lance`s body chemistry afforded him those superhuman feats of fitness that left competitors reeling ?

redddraggon

JimmyK wrote:

Like many others , I have watched in awe as Lance powered his way past competitors on hills with super cadence ability, how did the guy not wear himself out to the point of exhaustion :shock: ?

EPO

Al_38

JimmyK wrote:

Like many others , I have watched in awe as Lance powered his way past competitors on hills with super cadence ability, how did the guy not wear himself out to the point of exhaustion :shock:

Ive tried and tried and tried to up my cadence on uphills but always came to the same conclusion.............further into the ride and my legs were totally shot to bits. Im not talking about Lance cadences 120+ rpm, no, no. In my instance , I am referring to 90 rpm cadence but it just appears that it is not for me at all :oops:

The common denominator on all my best rides was a steady cadence around 75 rpm and leaning more towards ulrich riding style and bigger gears. Ive done half centuries 18.5 - 19.0 av mph using this style and have hardly broken sweat. It appears that riding style keeps my heartrate a LOT lower, leg fatigue is cut in half and breathing is completely under control, whereas when I up the cadence to 90 rpm, my heartrate rises quickly and I am breathing like a horse who has just run the national.........add to that the shot legs :roll: and its not the best feeling in the world for me.

I perform better when I ride ulrich style , doesnt seem to be much I can do about that. Id love to tackle climbs the way lance did , I just adore watching a human machine of perfection in action........but alas, my body make up doesnt lend itself towards it.

I know we have the high cadence brigade here, but are there other riders like me who give their best at lower cadences and bigger gears ? What element of lance`s body chemistry afforded him those superhuman feats of fitness that left competitors reeling ?

I used to do similar to this - spent most of my rides grinding out the gears at fairly low cadences. I am really a rower though so used to less frequent but bigger effort movements. Because I trained like this on the bike I suprisingly enough also was best at lowish cadences in general. Having spent a while working on doing a higher cadence I find I tend to settle between about 100 and 110 rpm now (and perhaps go faster).
Its a balance IMO between aerobic fitness - spinning and strength - grinding so if you did want to change it takes a fair while before this really takes effect.

derekbiggerstaff

I wasted years following the advice of the high cadence lobby. It's "more efficient" don't you know. Rubbish! I can maintain 260 watts for an hour at 70rpm, but if I pedal significantly faster my cardio-vascular engine runs out of steam.

redddraggon

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

JimmyK

redddraggon wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

Like many others , I have watched in awe as Lance powered his way past competitors on hills with super cadence ability, how did the guy not wear himself out to the point of exhaustion :shock: ?

EPO

what does that mean :?

edit, ah I see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/tour_de_france/371199.stm

I dont think lance would have depended on cheating .[/url]

JimmyK

redddraggon wrote:

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

yet there are riders here who will be just as passionate that it isnt.

Pokerface

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

yet there are riders here who will be just as passionate that it isnt.

High cadence works for some people - and not for others. The ones who it works for will be passionate that it the way forward.

I'm with you - power through the big gears at a low-ish cadence. I just can't spin my legs fast enough for anything else.

freehub

On the road I reckon my average cadence is like 80, on the turbo it's about 90, I prefer low cadence, it works better for me and I go faster for less effort.

redddraggon

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

Like many others , I have watched in awe as Lance powered his way past competitors on hills with super cadence ability, how did the guy not wear himself out to the point of exhaustion :shock: ?

EPO

what does that mean :?

edit, ah I see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/tour_de_france/371199.stm

I dont think lance would have depended on cheating .[/url]

Jimmy are you really that naive?

shockedsoshocked

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

yet there are riders here who will be just as passionate that it isnt.

Mainly because it isn't a red herring.

The reason Lance used to jump away from his rivals, in most instances Ullrich, was that he hadn't smashed his legs in pushing ridiculous gears half way up a mountainside.

redddraggon

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

yet there are riders here who will be just as passionate that it isnt.

Mainly because it isn't a red herring.

The reason Lance used to jump away from his rivals, in most instances Ullrich, was that he hadn't smashed his legs in pushing ridiculous gears half way up a mountainside.

It is a red herring. If you just ride, get fitter, become a better rider, you don't need a cadence meter to tell you if it's right, you should just be able to feel what's right. There is no ideal cadence or anything.

If Jimmy wants to ride at a low cadence because that's what he feels is best. Riding at a higher cadence because someone tells you you should, but you aren't comfortable at that cadence, it's hardly sensible to continue.

Everyone is different and has different physiology and stuff.

fastercyclist

Whilst I understand shocksoshocked point - perhaps Ullrich would not of been the rider he was if he cycled at a higher cadence anyway as it seems his body was optimised for a lower one. Perhaps if he cycled at a higher cadence we wouldn't of ever heard of him. So in a sense it could be a red herring.

JimmyK

redddraggon wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

Like many others , I have watched in awe as Lance powered his way past competitors on hills with super cadence ability, how did the guy not wear himself out to the point of exhaustion :shock: ?

EPO

what does that mean :?

edit, ah I see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/tour_de_france/371199.stm

I dont think lance would have depended on cheating .[/url]

Jimmy are you really that naive?

Just because I believe 100% that Katie Price is a virgin and loyal to her man with a dedication to make a grown man weep, do you insinuate that I am naive ?

JimmyK

derekbiggerstaff wrote:

I wasted years following the advice of the high cadence lobby. It's "more efficient" don't you know. Rubbish! I can maintain 260 watts for an hour at 70rpm, but if I pedal significantly faster my cardio-vascular engine runs out of steam.

Thats me exactly, at 75rpm I can push all day, if I go up to 90 rpm its like a big balloon being slowly deflated with the accompanying fart sound. I wonder if it is a biological thing that some of us perform quick and some slower. Same results, different methodology.

Garz

I think you have answered this yourself. If you have found the sweet spot to be 75rpm then that is you ideal cadence!

Some might use a lower gear and be comfortable hovering around 85rpm albeit having the same speed. I have seen some guys say they go 100+ on their rides but I tried that and for me is way too much to maintain.

I have only been on the road bike for circa eight months now but judging by my computer am averaging about 75-80 depending on the type of ride I go on and am very happy using this cadence.

Now you have found it, as reddragon says - just ride!

shockedsoshocked

redddraggon wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

yet there are riders here who will be just as passionate that it isnt.

Mainly because it isn't a red herring.

The reason Lance used to jump away from his rivals, in most instances Ullrich, was that he hadn't smashed his legs in pushing ridiculous gears half way up a mountainside.

It is a red herring. If you just ride, get fitter, become a better rider, you don't need a cadence meter to tell you if it's right, you should just be able to feel what's right. There is no ideal cadence or anything.

If Jimmy wants to ride at a low cadence because that's what he feels is best. Riding at a higher cadence because someone tells you you should, but you aren't comfortable at that cadence, it's hardly sensible to continue.

Everyone is different and has different physiology and stuff.

I'm not saying he should ride at it, but like all things it takes time and practice to adapt if you're going to change your style. If you're just riding your bike for fun it probably doesn't matter so much, but over the course of a race (or a GT if your Lance/Ulle) saving your legs is pretty important.

JimmyK

I find it of interest how the 100+ rpm geezers can sustain it. At 90 rpm my thigh muscles literally turn to lead . Its weird how a bigger gear at 75rpm doesnt seem to effect me at all :?

sroberson

My own reading of Lance's and others style is that it is basically dependent upon how much oxygen you can get into your lungs and into your blood. For some one like Lance who has a HUGE VO2 max, it is a good way to ride. And of course it depends on what your riding. I tend to ride TTs at a higher power and cadence round 75 to 80, whereas I ride a bike leg for a triathlon at 90 to 100 because it reduces lactic acid buildup. That said, I never totally crush myself on a triathlon bike leg because you still have to run 5 to 10 k.

In the same way I've come across some guys ride devastatingly quick TTs at a cadence so slow that I wouldn't be able to turn the same gear for more than ten minutes. I guess it's a question of the way you train, how your bike is set up and then what feels natural.

chrisw12

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

yet there are riders here who will be just as passionate that it isnt.

Mainly because it isn't a red herring.

The reason Lance used to jump away from his rivals, in most instances Ullrich, was that he hadn't smashed his legs in pushing ridiculous gears half way up a mountainside.

It is a red herring. If you just ride, get fitter, become a better rider, you don't need a cadence meter to tell you if it's right, you should just be able to feel what's right. There is no ideal cadence or anything.

If Jimmy wants to ride at a low cadence because that's what he feels is best. Riding at a higher cadence because someone tells you you should, but you aren't comfortable at that cadence, it's hardly sensible to continue.

Everyone is different and has different physiology and stuff.

I'm not saying he should ride at it, but like all things it takes time and practice to adapt if you're going to change your style. If you're just riding your bike for fun it probably doesn't matter so much, but over the course of a race (or a GT if your Lance/Ulle) saving your legs is pretty important.

Can you explain how riding at a high cadence 'saves; your legs' and can you also explain why RAAM riders for example choose a particularly low cadence?

shockedsoshocked

chrisw12 wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

JimmyK wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Cadence is a red herring. just ride

yet there are riders here who will be just as passionate that it isnt.

Mainly because it isn't a red herring.

The reason Lance used to jump away from his rivals, in most instances Ullrich, was that he hadn't smashed his legs in pushing ridiculous gears half way up a mountainside.

It is a red herring. If you just ride, get fitter, become a better rider, you don't need a cadence meter to tell you if it's right, you should just be able to feel what's right. There is no ideal cadence or anything.

If Jimmy wants to ride at a low cadence because that's what he feels is best. Riding at a higher cadence because someone tells you you should, but you aren't comfortable at that cadence, it's hardly sensible to continue.

Everyone is different and has different physiology and stuff.

I'm not saying he should ride at it, but like all things it takes time and practice to adapt if you're going to change your style. If you're just riding your bike for fun it probably doesn't matter so much, but over the course of a race (or a GT if your Lance/Ulle) saving your legs is pretty important.

Can you explain how riding at a high cadence 'saves; your legs' and can you also explain why RAAM riders for example choose a particularly low cadence?

What is RAAM?

In basic terms pushing a bigger gear relies more on your skeletal muscle, which is easily fatigued. Spinning a lower gear will tax your cardiovascular system more (the reason people attempting to change their pedalling style will notice their HR shoot up etc). The example has already been provided of Lance/Jan. Jan was notorious for hoofing a huge gear, which works to an extent, but when the likes of Armstrong accelerates he couldn't respond. Although if you watch the 2003 tour Ulle did seem to adopt a higher cadence in the mountains and TTs, and arguably this was his best performance in the Lance years.

freehub

RAAM I believe stands for Race Across America which is none stop 3000 miles.

shockedsoshocked

freehub wrote:

RAAM I believe stands for Race Across America which is none stop 3000 miles.

Bit of a different scenario from what the previous discussion was about, but I'd suggest if you're on your bike for 22 hours a day (haven't they got anything better to do?) they'd more than likely lose muscle elasticity pretty rapidly. Basically you'd be stiff as a board, so I seriously doubt they could maintain a higher cadence even if they wanted to.

freehub

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

freehub wrote:

RAAM I believe stands for Race Across America which is none stop 3000 miles.

(haven't they got anything better to do?).

freehub wrote:

RAAM I believe stands for Race Across America which is none stop 3000 miles.

Don't see the problem in it, all this have they got anything better to do annoys me, just because someone else wants to challenge themselves or do something they find good that someone else would not want to do does not mean it's stupid and should have better things to do.

Some people who probs think the same thing idea of something better to do would be to go down the pub and get p155ed which I don't think is something "better"

But in this case, as you can see, I highlighted the main point.

shockedsoshocked

Handbags at dawn.

JimmyK

go on Will and SSS , knock each others cr@p in .[/img]

Alex_Simmons/RST

Cadence is a red herring if it is discussed/considered on its own, in isolation from also knowing the torque (or power) which accompanies a given cadence/cadence range.

One might feel less taxed at higher/lower cadences simply because they are producing less power.

Since very few actually know how much power they are producing when they ride, then most of the discussions on cadence having this or that effect are a red herring.

The "Lance is high cadence and Jan is low cadence" mantra is also a myth, mostly a figment of commentators' imaginations.

stokepa31

Jan was also powered by pies in the main which might also have something to do with his performances. it seems pies = god quads. I am sticking to pies and 75rpm

shockedsoshocked

stokepa31 wrote:

Jan was also powered by pies in the main which might also have something to do with his performances. it seems pies = god quads. I am sticking to pies and 75rpm

The East German sports programme he was on probably helped somewhat too! :twisted:

freehub

I find at lower cadence, like 75RPM, I am putting out the most power, like on the turbo I was doing a steady 350W at 75RPM up this 3%, I switch to high cadence and I was putting out slightly less wattage but also at the same time my HR was going even higher and I was getting far too tired compared to how I would have being getting at 75RPM.

Bhima

Don't try to control it, just chose a gear that feels "good" and ride. I can produce the same power at low and high cadence but higher RPMs allow me to hold higher powers for slightly longer. Others find that they are the opposite. I think it's personal preference on which type of suffering you can tolerate more: heavy breathing or burning legs.

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

The "Lance is high cadence and Jan is low cadence" mantra is also a myth, mostly a figment of commentators' imaginations.

Yep. Lance is SLOW, especially since his comeback. Wasn't he trackstanding his way up Ventoux last year? Contador is also quite slow.

If you want to know what high cadence is, look at Fabian in Mendrisio from the tail-end of last year. 8)