Broken left 105 STI shifter on new bike
Comments
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Otherwise, I am happy with the bike, i want to keep it. Will upgrade it later this year.
I had alot success sending faulty parts back(non bike related), direct to manufacturer's oversea's. On two occasions(seperate incidents) after a phonecall. they sent a new replacement part out, before receiving the faulty part first.0 -
You aren't trying to change from big to small chain ring on the left with the chain fully taught(on the biggest in the cassette) are you?
Just sounds like it could be a possibility as this happens when you go up hills....0 -
Buckled_Rims wrote:
I don't care what anyone says, there's a big design fault with these 105 LH shifters.
Agreed. I going to get a new shifter, making sure it setup right.0 -
A couple of points.
1. You need to calm down a bit, the bike shop was well within its rights to offer a repair, which you accepted, and it is not their fault that the second shifter broke.
2. You said that you had not ridden a "modern bike" for about 20 years, did you get the guys in the shop to explain to you how the bike works and how to use the shifters? If not, how are you sure that you were using them correctly?
3. The chain wear tools link: There is different types of wear, pins get worn, plates stretch, plates loosen (can flex chain side to side) and so on, a chain wear tool is just one tool to help the mechanic diagnose the problem. It is not a definitive answer, more supporting evidence.
4. It is fine for the mechanic to refuse to work on a bike because it is dirty. That you would give the man such little respect for what he does by expecting him to work on your dirty bike is what shocked me.
5. Would also like to question Wappygixer on his post,
If I was to come to you with some lovely expensive shifters that had a problem or a part had broken, you would strip them off, bin them, and I would have to cough up for some new ones? What a load of absolute bo11ocks! This link, for example:Wappygixer wrote:If I remember correctly within the first 28 days if something is defective you are entitled to a new model and not be fobbed off with repair.
I work in a cycle workshop and this would be completely unacceptable of my staff.
For your info your local bike shop is fobbing you off as Shimano offer no replacement parts for STI levers.When they are broken thats it, job finished and new shifter time.
http://www.shimanoservicecentre.co.uk/SSC/shimano_parts/STI%20Lever/ST-5600.PDF
points to the exploded parts diagram for 5600 STI levers, go to the bottom, and you will see the Shimano code number. This can be used to order specific parts from Madison, which I'm guessing Klippy did when he had his shifter repaired. Please name and shame your shop so that I never have my bikes touched by you.
6. Following on from 5, why have you been posting this? The internet is full of "faceless experts" (admittedly, I'm going to fall into that category as well), when what you really should have done was spoken to your bike shop about your problem, if the outcome was not satisfactory, complained to the management, then get a second opinion in writing from at least one more bike shop (to make sure you are in the right), then go to Citizens Advice, or Trading Standards. These steps are already in place and have been doing a great job for years, your internet searching only seems to have made you paranoid that everything is going to break.
7. And quite importantly now, feel free to inform people of your previous experiences of bike shops, but making claims like
is just daft. Have you spoken to every member of this club, and confirmed that none of them will even buy tubes or cables from this place? If not, this comment could be considered slanderous, needlessly negatively affecting the reputation of this shop is not cool. Let them speak for themselves, and then the community can reach a consensus, do not elaborate on hearsay rumours.droadie wrote:In fact, i have later learnt, a whole MTB club in the local area, won't deal with them due to there poor service.0 -
What a bunch of cowboys.
It's a pity they got your money, but you're best to deal with the manufacturer directly.
In the interenet age LBSs really need to get their act together. You pay extra to them so you get a high level of support and service. They should fight your corner and support the customer. After all, the manufacturers don't pay the bill, the punters do. Without this service you're as well to go to the grey market and get the same level of support far cheaper.
Chevin Cycles, you fail.0 -
Lady Venom wrote:You aren't trying to change from big to small chain ring on the left with the chain fully taught(on the biggest in the cassette) are you?
Just sounds like it could be a possibility as this happens when you go up hills....
Nope. I never change gear on a hill, but on the flats before. I been extra careful with it, being a new bike. Light pressure on the levers, and when changing gear, light tension on the chain. I don't ever cross chain. I am concious that being a compact, it creates more chain wear already.
That is despite the fact, the Hyperglide design let's the chain rest on two adjacent sprockets at the same time and let's you change gear under tension.0 -
I have read before about 105 levers failing. I have a pair (on a triple bike though so perhaps not relevant), they have operated flawlessly for 3.5 years. I have done nothing at all to them as regards servicing / lubing.
I don't think 105 shifter failures are usually that common, so two sets in three weeks would suggest operator error if I was a bike shop. I am not saying it was operator error, all I am saying is that the shop would be bound to consider it.
Not sure about the relevance of them pointing out your chain is worn. IME chain checkers are pretty good, and so you must have been giving it some welly to wear your chain in that short mileage.
To the OP, I think your best course of action is to explain calmly to the LBS the situation and aks what they are proposing doing to rectify it, taking into account the Sales of Goods Act. Do it nicely but firmly and see where you get to.0 -
guinea wrote:What a bunch of cowboys.
As far as I am aware, they have a good reputation around these parts. Not used them myself but I wouldn't presume that the word of a single poster who has only posted in this thread is enough to write off a shop as being run by cowboys.Faster than a tent.......0 -
The facts.
Dad buys bike for son. Exact date 28th Jan 2010. So the bike is exactly 1 month old now.
2 weeks later shifter breaks. We don't have a replacement in stock. So ring Madison. They don't have any in for 2 weeks. This is what we tell the customer (who I won't name)
The son says that's fine. Still has old bike, we say OK we will ring when ready.
1 Week later Dad storms in. Saying why isn't it ready, sales of goods act etc.
I explain what happened and that 2 weeks was taken as being OK to wait for when his son brought it in. However as this is obviously now not the case we will take a shifter off a bike in show and can have it ready in a couple of hours for you. At this point I was threatened with court, demanding full refunds etc. I stayed calm and polite and assured him it would be ready. He decided he needed to think about it. Rang back a few hours later to say fit the new shifter.
All done customer happy, bike back on the road.....sorted. I apologise if I did say that we now have a bike we can't sell, as I'm chatting to customers I do tell them exactly what we are doing.
A week later phone call from Dad. Chain won't go onto big chainring - Shifter is broken! Bloody hell! I assured him we would sort it straight away. At 1st I thought it could be just a stretched cable, that you would be very unlucky to get 2 faulty shifter in a row. But whatever the problem we would sort it out.
Bike arrives . Unable to tell colour as it is covered in mud, grime etc. Chain, chainset,mechs under a black sludge. Customer was told could he please clean it as there is no way we can work on a bike like that. The bike looks like is has just come out of the canal! And now we are beginning to think this is down to user negleglect/missuse. It was pointed out that if Madison saw the bike/shifter in this state then they would be able to blame it on neglect/missuse.The customer couldn't leave the bike with us, so we said fine, but please could you give it a bit of a clean before you bring it in.
Before it left the shop a mechanic spotted the headset was loose and the bars and stem were twisted. The customer had fitted a different stem, not put in the correct amount of washers and strpped the handlebar clamp bolts. As the bars were being held on with only 2 out of 4 bolts we re-tapped the stripped bolts and sorted out the headset, so that although he couldn't get onto the big chainring at least his handle bars didn't come off and him vanish under a bus.
Awaiting for the customer to bring his bike in for us to sort, when this pops up.
If the customer would care to get back in touch with me, instead of complaining on a forum, we will still offer you the free upgrade to Ultegra that we had arranged with Cannondale/Madison as compensation for the 2 faulty shifters.
I very rarely get involved directly, in public on a forum like this, as I am aware I could just fan the flames and make things worse, but this is MY BUISNESS! And I get personally upset when I get "attacked" for doing the best we can for our customers and trying to help people enjoy their bikes and cycling.
Matthew Peacock
Manager - Chevin Cycles0 -
Well, well, well, still going eh? Forgot to add my disclaimer- that i don't really know what i'm on about and anything i say is learned through trawling the internet and riding my bike. Anyhoo, sounds like you can afford to upgrade to Ultegra so happy days eh? Get the 105's repaired/replaced and whack 'em on ebay, you'll at least re-coup some cash 8)winter beast: http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff016.jpg
Summer beast; http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff015.jpg0 -
Chevin wrote:Some stuff which i believe much more than droadie
Ya moaning git droadie, you should go back in that shop with your head bowed in shame, just goes to show you can'#t believe everything you read io a forum eh?
8)
Ps, sounds like dam good service to me...winter beast: http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff016.jpg
Summer beast; http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff015.jpg0 -
s-worksenduro wrote:
5. Would also like to question Wappygixer on his post,
If I was to come to you with some lovely expensive shifters that had a problem or a part had broken, you would strip them off, bin them, and I would have to cough up for some new ones? What a load of absolute bo11ocks! This link, for example:Wappygixer wrote:If I remember correctly within the first 28 days if something is defective you are entitled to a new model and not be fobbed off with repair.
I work in a cycle workshop and this would be completely unacceptable of my staff.
For your info your local bike shop is fobbing you off as Shimano offer no replacement parts for STI levers.When they are broken thats it, job finished and new shifter time.
http://www.shimanoservicecentre.co.uk/SSC/shimano_parts/STI%20Lever/ST-5600.PDF
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If you actually look at the exploded view it only show the lever assembly and nothing to do with the STI internals which is whats has happened in this case.
Shimano list lots of items but actually getting them is another ball game completely.
I beleive in good cusotmer service and go out of my way to make all of my customers happy.
If you want repairable shifters then its Camapg all the way.0 -
I have been a customer of Chevin cycles for many years and have always found them to be totally professional in all aspects of the business. I would and don’t have any problems with advising people to use Chevin cycles.
Droadie you need to go back into the shop and apologise to all concerned. Mind you if it was my shop you wouldn’t get through the door. All problems can be overcome without the use of forums, especially when you don’t give others the correct details. You seem to have forgotten the free upgrade to Ultegra !
Chevin also run maintenance classes on evenings, I think you would find it quite helpful, even if it only taught you how to look after your chain. It would also give you an insight into why we keep bikes clean.
You might also find it helpful to get someone to help with your gear changing, you don’t change gear on hills, very strange, isn’t that what they are for. The mountain bike club that you mention must be very small if you’re going to tell everyone not to use Chevin, which is a large store in the Leeds area.0 -
s-worksenduro wrote:A couple of points.
1. You need to calm down a bit, the bike shop was well within its rights to offer a repair, which you accepted, and it is not their fault that the second shifter broke.
I was calm, in fact very laidback, i gave them the oppurtunity of 4 weeks to wait for a spare part after owning it for just 2 days. It was only discussing it with family/friends that this was not acceptable. I was quite happy to use my other bike in the meantime.s-worksenduro wrote:2. You said that you had not ridden a "modern bike" for about 20 years, did you get the guys in the shop to explain to you how the bike works and how to use the shifters? If not, how are you sure that you were using them correctly?
Sure, I have used STI shifter's on 2nd hand road bikes in that time. STI has not changed. The principle is the same. What i mean by modern bike, is a upto date spec, modern geometry and lighter components. Like i say i not used the levers hard or both together.s-worksenduro wrote:3. The chain wear tools link: There is different types of wear, pins get worn, plates stretch, plates loosen (can flex chain side to side) and so on, a chain wear tool is just one tool to help the mechanic diagnose the problem. It is not a definitive answer, more supporting evidence.
Fine, it is mostly chain wear as i have hammered the bike well in all weathers. But i have always cleaned it afterwards. I got the bike to use. Ok granted you don't use your best bike in the heart of Winter. I had covered it with tape to protect the bike for this very reason. I put a layer of tape on backwards and then another layer on normal so it would come straight off without damaging the paint at all. Nothing was stuck to the frame, but the frame remained protected from damage and chain slap. So i went out of my way, to look after the frame.
My way of cleaning the chain is to take off the quick release and soak it in a bottle of white spirit. But i not done that, i had in mind to upgrade the cassette and chain. Something i didn't discuss at the time. I was cleaning the gears that regularly due to constant use, the mud and grit never got dry and blasted straight off.s-worksenduro wrote:4. It is fine for the mechanic to refuse to work on a bike because it is dirty. That you would give the man such little respect for what he does by expecting him to work on your dirty bike is what shocked me.
I had washed the bike before i set off to LBS. The bike has looked very clean other days. I have been cleaning the FD, chainstay and surrounding areas particularly. The FD, RD and cassette had looked mint, free from grit, everytime i washed it. That day to the LBS caked it again.
It is unfortunate that the bike turned up dirty. I had to ride the bike to the shop that day. I was left with the impression that i didn't care about the bike, when i did. I am responsible for all wear and tear. I not expecting LBS to take care of that. Ok there is much more, wear and tear than a 1 month old, usual new bike, but that is my problem. I wasn't going to bother them on every little niggle. All i wanted was the left shifter sorting out. I even made sure the internal gear tubes didn't clog up with grit, mud regularly as i was using it nearly daily.
I was told by my Dad from phone call that they be happy to sort it out. When i got there, the issue with the left shifter was quickly dismissed and onto the state of the bike. I was asked "Where are the original water bottle nuts?" Why was this an issue? They were safely tucked up at home. I had removed the water bottle cages so i could clean the bike. What harm does it do to the bike without them? They got the impression i didn't care about the bike with the state of it after 1 month. I can understand that. I have ridden it hard.
I think anybody be annoyed having cycled 15 miles in rain after been told before they happy to sort out the left shifter but later more concerned about water bottle bolts. I should of asked to speak to the manager as it seems there has been a communication problem.0 -
Chevin wrote:
Before it left the shop a mechanic spotted the headset was loose and the bars and stem were twisted. The customer had fitted a different stem, not put in the correct amount of washers and strpped the handlebar clamp bolts. As the bars were being held on with only 2 out of 4 bolts we re-tapped the stripped bolts and sorted out the headset, so that although he couldn't get onto the big chainring at least his handle bars didn't come off and him vanish under a bus.
I had bought a 3rd party stem to create a better reach and rise, which made all the difference. Ok it was shorter but fine for me. What happened was, one of the stem bolts popped out on the journey to the LBS. It had only just recently happened.The threads of the stem were less quality and weaker. By totally loosening off tthe other bolts, the stripped thread bolt could re-bite back into the thread lower down with pressure, to remain secure, tightening them all equally at same time. My errors were, i didn't use enough washers and i didn't leave the 2-3mm overlap of the stem over the steerer. Chevin sorted me all out with that and more.
This wasn't going to be a permanent solution. I did make a hash of it and rounded the hole bolt off Ahead top cap, due to many adjustments with the allen key. It looked bad but still could be undone. A top cap is cheap.
In the end, Chevin rectified, what i made a hash of, and did a excellent job in fixing the stem bolt area, compression plug, slight play in the headset to make it all safe. I appreciated that service. Thank you. I am quite happy for that to be my one month due service, done.0 -
droadie wrote:Shorty after, I did abit research on chain wear. So i know better myself when it slightly and truly worn.
Ok according to this article. This is what it says on chain wear. Maybe deserves another thread.
As of 2009/10, almost all commercial bicycle tools for measuring bicycle chain wear are inaccurate. :shock:
http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html
Is that right?
Probably correct. I checked my brand new chain with the Park checker and it showed as worn out.0 -
I don't get this. The bike shop fix stuff on your bike that you buggered AND offer you a free upgrade to Ultegra, yet you come on here whinging about how terrible their service is!
The way that Chevin have dealt with such an arse of a customer would suggest to me that they are in fact an excellent LBS and not a crap one as you have claimed.More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:I don't get this. The bike shop fix stuff on your bike that you buggered AND offer you a free upgrade to Ultegra, yet you come on here whinging about how terrible their service is!
The way that Chevin have dealt with such an ars* of a customer would suggest to me that they are in fact an excellent LBS and not a crap one as you have claimed.
To be fair, the way the dude has been posting on this thread, gave me the impression straight away that he was a bit deranged.
Seems to have the same posting style as Sandbag/Giantsasquatch too.0 -
Wappygixer wrote:s-worksenduro wrote:
5. Would also like to question Wappygixer on his post,
If I was to come to you with some lovely expensive shifters that had a problem or a part had broken, you would strip them off, bin them, and I would have to cough up for some new ones? What a load of absolute bo11ocks! This link, for example:Wappygixer wrote:If I remember correctly within the first 28 days if something is defective you are entitled to a new model and not be fobbed off with repair.
I work in a cycle workshop and this would be completely unacceptable of my staff.
For your info your local bike shop is fobbing you off as Shimano offer no replacement parts for STI levers.When they are broken thats it, job finished and new shifter time.
http://www.shimanoservicecentre.co.uk/SSC/shimano_parts/STI%20Lever/ST-5600.PDF
.
If you actually look at the exploded view it only show the lever assembly and nothing to do with the STI internals which is whats has happened in this case.
Shimano list lots of items but actually getting them is another ball game completely.
I beleive in good cusotmer service and go out of my way to make all of my customers happy.
If you want repairable shifters then its Camapg all the way.
This is very true. My LH Ultegra shifter no longer registers which chainring I am on via the Flightdeck computer. When I called the service centre to ask about getting spare parts they confirmed that I would need a new shifter. There is a website somewhere explaining how to diy service Shimano STI shifters but it is on a level with servicing your own Rolex or performing surgery on live wasps.0 -
The OP has done himself no favours taking a badly maintained nearly new bike in such a condition back to the shop for repair.
The botched modifications he had made to the bike were evidence of a lack of care and mechanical knowledge or sympathy. The fact that 2 sets of shifters have broken in 3 weeks is extremely unusual and the state of the bike generally is bound to be rightly construed as misuse and therefore a contributory factor.
Also the OP has not helped his case on here with appalling grammar, text speak and a rather aggressive tone- sounds petty but it makes a difference to the picture people have of him as a person.
I think the OP is lucky quite frankly to have been offered the resolution the shop have promised.0 -
Droadie, your a bike butcher. Take up golf ya tosser. I'm sure you'll find a golf forum to rack people off :twisted:0
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I can barely believe what I am reading, OP is there something wrong with your head mate?
You completely balls up the headset, strip bolts, ruin the chain, chip paintwork and break 2 shifters in a few months! Are you riding this bike around the estate with your mates and their BMXs?
The LBS imo have dealt with this excessively well and seemed to have bent over backwards to sort the problem out. Unfortunetly there may be dozens of individual cases where LBS have been unable to tell their side of the story and as a result have been "Named & Shamed".0 -
It is immaterial, who bought the bike. The broken shifter has broken 2x through no fault of my own in space of 3-4 weeks.
How i clean my bike is immaterial, Yet i explained. I had washed it everytime i been out with it. I would not send a filthy bike to the LBS on purpose. 2x broken shifters through no fault of my own and been told we can't fix your bike because it is dirty is no fun.0 -
How about posting on something else? 42 times in 1 thread!0
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sturmey wrote:The OP has done himself no favours taking a badly maintained nearly new bike in such a condition back to the shop for repair.
The botched modifications he had made to the bike were evidence of a lack of care and mechanical knowledge or sympathy. The fact that 2 sets of shifters have broken in 3 weeks is extremely unusual and the state of the bike generally is bound to be rightly construed as misuse and therefore a contributory factor.Vino2007 wrote:You completely balls up the headset, strip bolts, ruin the chain, chip paintwork and break 2 shifters in a few months! Are you riding this bike around the estate with your mates and their BMXs?
What ridiculous statements and petty nonsense.
I have long since forgotten the episode and moved on. All this is immaterial but i explained for the hell of it. I should of refrained, as i obviously attracted half nutters not telling the full story!
You automatically suggest due to other ongoing faults, i am guilty of breaking the shifters, how stupid! I did not break the shifters!
The bike has been maintained well. I was discouraged from fitting a adjustable stem(another sales assistant) to get the exact reach i wanted. If i hadn't been discouraged, i wouldn't of bought a 3rd party stem and attempted it myself in the first place. I ad already explained i wanted slight more reach and height. I still have the original stem. The new 45 degree adjustment, made a great bike fit overall by doing so. This worked fine. The shorter steering wasn't quirky. Only one of the threads later became damaged. I had fixed so it was secure but subsequently became loose again. I had my eye on it to replace it soon with a safe solution.
Now 2-3 weeks later, I had tried to fit a Delta stem raiser to raise it 2 inches, and realised it wasn't compatible, due to being carbon, the bearings couldn't be preloaded and the top cap couldn't fit. Now this maybe obvious but i not used to carbon. It didn't matter my fitness had improved due to many miles,i didn't need it now. I just tried it. When putting it back together there was no play. Later that week it developed play and the handlebar bolt stripped out. I was in the process of changing the stem and taking out the play. I downloaded all the manufacturers manuals. It not rocket science.
Now to say i'm a muppet with my bike is bollocks. I'm guilty of not degreasing my chain in 3-4 weeks of heavy use. I went out of my way to look after new bike. It is only from lots of use, mainly from natural winter wear and tear. Parts can be replaced. I am riding my bike lots more than average, parts will probably wear out before a year is up. NO PROBLEM!0 -
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redragon your obviously a young troll because, you have 10,000 posts and the recent few i have seen are of a derogatory nature. Before, you even suggested i'm another poster. May i suggest you get out and get more oxygen, as you obviously been on this forum too long. There is thousands of posters on this forum.0
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My father on being informed of the exchanges on this forum comments:
There are clearly obvious and justifiable reasons for complaint where a seller fails to meet the conditions of sale. This Dad did not consider it necessary to 'storm in' to make one.
The retailer's perception of reality differs from mine. Any reference to 'court action' was not intended or made as a threat, it was merely advisory and identified the right to protection in the face of recalcitrance. It can only be perceived as a threat by those who are potentially adversely affected by it.
However, had it been necessary, I would not have been deterred by the statement: 'we have been to court three times and won everytime.' Really!
It is obviously unrealistic and unfair to initially insist that a customer having made a substantial payment should be denied access to their purchase for an indeterminate period. Indeed, it is irrational.
After 'discussion' a repair was made using a replacement part from another stock bike. This simple, but evidently alien suggestion which would have avoided any conflict was initially refused. The replacement component also failed.
During a subsequent telephone conversation with the manager, I enquired if the Ultegra would be more reliable. If so, I offered to pay the difference in price between that and the failed unit. The response was that there was no advantage in doing so. (I wont relate the given reasons why.)
Neither I or my son (when he returned his bike for repair) were offered or informed that arrangements had been made for a compensatory offer of a free upgrade. Knowledge of it, has only been gleaned from this forum.
I repeat that if an upgrade was advantageous, I would have accepted the recommendation and paid for it! Indeed, the subsequently publicised offer confirms both the merit and substance of the initial complaint.
However, it was not sought but the albeit belated indirect conciliatory gesture is not unappreciated. I trust that my recommendation that a review of service and complaints procedure will be similarly regarded.
Here endeth the lesson.0 -
You obviously haven't forgotten droadie as you keep coming back to this thread to defend yourself. Just let it lie.... it's obvious you are another poster because the standard of communication and complexity of words used has increased 2-fold!
You have dug yourself a whole, I now suggest you turn off the JCB before it gets any bigger.0
