Symptoms of an overly downward pointing saddle ?
Comments
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The average bicycle police officer spends 24 hours a week on his bicycle and previous studies have shown riding a bicycle with a traditional (nosed) saddle has been associated with urogenital paresthesia and sexual dysfunction. AIM: The objective of this study was to assess the effectiveness of the no-nose bicycle saddle as an ergonomic intervention and their acceptance among male bicycle police officers. METHODS: Bicycle police officers from five U.S. metropolitan areas were recruited for this study. Officers completed: (i) the International Index of Erectile Function Questionnaire (IIEF); (ii) computerized pressure measurements at the points of contact on the bicycle; the handlebars, the pedals, and the saddle; (iii) one night of nocturnal Rigiscan assessment; (iv) penile vibrotactile sensitivity threshold assessed by computerized biothesiometery. Officers selected a no-nose saddle for their bicycles and were asked to use the intervention saddle exclusively for 6 months, at which point they were retested. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Perineal pressure, urogenital numbness, penile vibrotactile sensitivity threshold, erectile function as measure by International Index of Erectile Function Questionnaire (IIEF) and Rigiscan. RESULTS: After 6 months, 90 men were reassessed. Only three men had returned to a traditional saddle. The results are presented for those who used the no-nose saddle continuously for 6 months. There was a 66% reduction in saddle contact pressure in the perineal region (P < 0.001). There was a significant improvement in penis tactile sensation (P = 0.015). There was a significant improvement in erectile function assessed by IIEF (P = 0.015). There were no changes noted in the Rigiscan measures. The number of men indicating they had not experienced urogential paresthesia while cycling for the preceding 6 months, rose from 27% to 82% using no-nose saddles. CONCLUSIONS: (i) With few exceptions, bicycle police officers were able to effectively use no-nose saddles in their police work. (ii) Use of no-nose saddles reduced most perineal pressure. (iii) Penile health improved after 6 month using no-nose saddles as measured by biothesiometry and IIEF. There was no improvement in Rigiscan(R) measure after 6 months of using no nose saddles, suggesting that a longer recovery time may be needed..0
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One problem though, noseless saddles give less seated stability0 -
Selle SMP Strike
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redddraggon wrote:Lol he's talking to himself, even the stuff you say is bonkers, you are Giantsasquatch, AICMFP
I ask what are you talking about?
I know what i'm talking about. Slight pressure on the hands, from a tilted saddle results in more downward pressure on the pedals because less weight is off the saddle.The Bike Fit of the Road Professional Cyclist Related to Anthropometric Measurements and the Torque of the crank.
It has been demonstrated that the modifications in the bike fit or the voluntary position changes affects in different parameters; cardiovascular, mechanic, pathologies, comfort. The objetive of this study was to obtain new methods to optimize the fit of the competition road bicycle, according to the anthropometric variables and torque. The study group consisted of 28 male cyclist of professional U.C.I. We measured all the anthropometric variables according with the ISAK protocol. Them we measured 20 different measures of the bike, and simulated the measurements in our ergometer (SRM ergometer). We optimized the position, changing the variable lengths of the bike and the position of the cycling shoes cleats, based on the optimal crank torque. After this, we measured again the new lengths and angles, and we correlate with the anthropometric data, to obtain relation and formulas. We realised that the 21,42 % of the subject aren’t in comfort with the position obtained by our formulas. Because this, we decided to separate into tree groups; the ones who had the relation of tall/ trocanter height > 1,94, between 1,88–194 and < 1,88. Then when we divided the cyclists into three groups and again we applied the new formulas for each groups, the discomfort disappear. The correlations and the obtained formulas consequently, are more precise for all groups, except group 3 with the differentiation of the groups. It has been demonstrated that exist a relation with some bicycle measures and anthropometric data. Also, we can see that just one formula for all the subjects is not very precise, the fit is better if we difference the cyclist by their anthropometric data. The success of our formulas has been demonstrated, by mechanics improvals, with always subjective comfort of the cyclist, and with no pathologic cases after our job.
It's your avatars that are bonkers!0 -
Saddle Height and Muscle Activation
Brian Sather
Jul 16,2009
Ericson, M. (1986). On the biomechanics of cycling. A study of joint and muscle load during exercise on the bicycle ergometer. Scandinavian Journal Of Rehabilitation Medicine. Supplement, 16, 1-43.
Quoted Abstract
The aim of the study was to quantify the load induced in the lower limb joints and muscles during exercise on a bicycle ergometer and to study how these loads changed with adjustments of the bicycle ergometer or cycling technique. The forces, load moments and muscular power output acting on and about the hip, knee and ankle joints during cycling were determined using cine-film, pedal force measurements and biomechanical calculations based upon static and dynamic mechanics. The muscular activity of eleven lower limb muscles was recorded and quantified using EMG. The load moments acting about the bilateral hip, knee and ankle joint axes were found to be generally lower than those induced during normal level walking. The varus and valgus load moments acting about the antero-posterior knee joint axis were approximately the same as those induced during walking. The tibio-femoral compressive joint force and the anteriorly directed tibio-femoral shear force mainly stressing the anterior cruciate ligament were low. The talocrural joint compressive force and achilles tendon tensile force were low compared to those in level walking. The magnitude of lower limb muscular activity during cycling approximated that obtained during walking, with three major exceptions. M. vastus medialis et lateralis were more activated during cycling than during walking, and tibialis anterior was less activated. The hip extensor muscles produced 27%, hip flexors 4%, knee extensors 39%, knee flexors 10% and ankle plantar flexors 20% of the total positive mechanical work. Of the four parameters studied (workload, pedalling rate, saddle height, pedal foot position) workload was the most important adjustment factor for change of joint load and muscular activity. An increased pedalling rate increased the muscular activity in most of the muscles investigated, generally without changing the joint load. Increased saddle height decreased the maximum flexing knee load moment, but did not significantly change the flexing hip or dorsiflexing ankle load moment. Muscular activity in most of the muscles investigated was not generally changed by different saddle heights. Use of a posterior foot position instead of an anterior decreased the dorsiflexing ankle load moment, increased the gluteus medius and rectus femoris activity, and decreased soleus muscular activity but did not significantly change the hip or knee moments. It is suggested that cycling might be a useful exercise in the rehabilitation of patients with injuries to the anterior cruciate ligament, medial collateral ligament of the knee or achilles tendon.
Notes
Mid saddle height approximately 113 percent of distance between ischial tuberosity and medial malleolus.
120 watts, 60 rpm, mid saddle height, and anterior pedal foot position.
This study provides an excellent summary of previous force pedal studies.
Subjects were students with "ordinary daily and recreational" cycling experience.
Picture of subject shows wires dangling down from pedals. Flat bar stationary bicycle with torso angle fairly upright.
Conditions studied. 120 watts and 240 watts. Pedalling rates 40, 60, 80, 100 rpm. Saddle heights 102, 113, 120 % of iscial tuberosity and medial malleolus. Mid saddle height corresponded to 109% of symphysis pubis height recommended by Hamley and Thomas (1967) and Nordeen-Snyder (1977). Problem: "The saddle heights were adjusted to the nearest fixed saddle position with a maximum error of +/- 1.5 cm" (p. 20). Handlebars were kept level with the saddle. Trunk was inclined forwards 20-30 degrees from vertical. Posterior foot position was 10 cm backward (instep) from the anterior (metatarsus II or ball of foot) position.
Saddle height measured from greatest distance of saddle surface to center of upper pedal surface.
The vastus medialis, vastus lateralis and soleus muscles were the most active. Tibialis anterior is less active then during walking.
Of all the parameters (work-load, pedaling rate, saddle height, pedal foot position) workload was the most important adjustment that led to change.
An increased saddle height caused an increase in activity of the gluteus medius, medial hamstring, and gastrocnemius muscles. The other muscles studied were not significantly changed due to saddle height.0 -
LOWE, B. D., S. M. SCHRADER, and M. J. BREITENSTEIN. Effect of Bicycle Saddle Designs on the Pressure to the Perineum of the Bicyclist. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 36, No. 6, pp. 1055-1062, 2004.
Purpose: Increasing awareness of an association between bicycling and male sexual dysfunction has led to the appearance of a variety of bicycle saddles that share the design objective of reducing pressure in the groin of the cyclist by removal of the narrow protruding nose of the saddle. This study compared three of these saddle designs to a traditional sport/road racing saddle with a narrow protruding nose in terms of pressure in the region of the perineum (groin) of the cyclist.
Methods: Saddle, pedal, and handlebar contact pressure were measured from 33 bicycle police patrol officers pedaling a stationary bicycle at a controlled cadence and workload. Pressure was characterized over the saddle as a whole and over a region of the saddle assumed to represent pressure on the cyclist's perineum located anteriorly to the ischial tuberosities.
Results: The traditional sport/racing saddle was associated with more than two times the pressure in the perineal region than the saddles without a protruding nose (P < 0.01). There were no significant differences in perineal pressure among the nontraditional saddles. Measures of load on the pedals and handlebars indicated no differences between the traditional saddle and those without protruding noses. This finding is contradictory to those studies suggesting a shift toward greater weight distribution on the handlebars and pedals when using a saddle without a nose.
Conclusions: The recommendation of a saddle without a narrow protruding nose appears to be justified to reduce pressure to the perineum of the bicyclist.0 -
Saddle Height
Higher saddle heights result generally in less muscle activity overall.
Research does not agree upon the effect of high, medium, or low saddle height on metabolic efficiency (VO2, heart rate, lactate levels).
Using a knee angle measurement to establish saddle height is much more accurate than an inseam or total leg length measurement.
A knee angle close to 155 degrees is the best for performance and injury prevention. This research supports shared-experience recommendations by others. Carmichael (2003) recommended 145-155 degrees with the pedal at dead bottom center which he defined as the crank arm in line with the seat post (5 o’clock or 150 degrees). The Howard method (Burke, 2002) recommended a 150 degree angle with the ball of the foot on the pedal at 6 o’clock (180 degrees). The Pruitt method (Burke) recommended a range of 145-150 degrees.
Saddle Setback
Some research suggests a steeper effective seat tube angle, or sliding forward on the saddle, is more efficient (lower oxygen and more power).
Torso Angle
Some research supports that rolling the body forward into a time trial position does not significantly change the force pattern at the pedal, other than rotating it forward.
The torso angle does significantly effect muscle activity of the lower body.
Standing vs Seated
Standing while riding uses more muscle activity and is less efficient metabolically than riding while seated.
Terrain
Mild inclines do not have a significant effect on muscle activity while seated.
Some data suggest that when climbing a steep hill, riders with short legs should move forward on the saddle to make the seat tube angle effectively steeper.
Muscle Activation
Single-joint muscles (gluteus maximus, gluteus medius, vastus medialis, vastus lateralis and soleus) provide force only when they can contribute positively (concentrically) while bi-articular muscles (biceps femoris, rectus femoris, gastrocnemius) work to provide equilibrium and coordination during the pedal cycle and possibly transfer of energy.
Pedaling
Saddle fore/aft and cadence seems to influence the range of angle changes at the ankle (fixed vs supple), but there is not compelling evidence for recommendations on the use of "ankling" for performance benefits.
Cadence has an effect on muscle activation and timing. Higher cadence results in more muscle activation and activation of each muscle earlier in the pedal cycle. However, there is support for use of high cadence in elite cyclists at high power outputs.0 -
In competitive cycling, setting the proper saddle height is important for both performance and injury prevention. This is also true for ergometer use in a laboratory. The cycling literature recommends using a 25 to 35° knee angle to set saddle height for injury prevention and recommends using 109% of inseam length for optimal performance. Prior research has demonstrated that these 2 methods do not produce similar saddle heights. The purpose of this study was to determine if there is a difference in performance between these 2 methods. Trained cyclists and noncyclists participated in this study. Anaerobic power production was compared using a 30s Wingate protocol at a saddle height of 109% of inseam and at 25 and 35° knee angles. Saddle height set using 109% of inseam fell outside the recommended 25 to 35° knee angle 63% of the time. There were no significant differences (p > 0.05) for peak power and mean power in either group between saddle heights. The data when using 109% to set saddle height were then divided into those that fell within the recommended 25 to 35° knee angle and those that fell outside. A 25° knee angle produced a significantly higher mean power compared with 109% in those that fell outside the recommended range. An increase in power, at a 25° angle, can be extrapolated to increased performance. There was no difference in performance detected in those individuals who fell within the recommended range. For this reason it is recommended that saddle height for cycles and ergometers be set using a 25 to 35° knee angle for both trained and untrained cyclists for both injury prevention and increased performance.
NOTES
Subjects at 155 knee angle produced higher mean power than those outside the range (higher saddle height) that used percentage of inseam.
Refers to Lemond method and includes reference.
Indicates only 2 of the methods have been studied and published in peer-reviewed journals. Includes citations p. 1023
Hamley method (1967) is 109% of inseam measured vertically from the floor to ischium in the standing position. Measured from pedal axle to top of seat with pedal in most distal position. Other studies confirm this method provides optimum aerobic power.
Holmes method (Holmes, Pruitt, and Whalen, 1994), saddle height is 25-35 knee angle. Recommended for reducing risk of overuse injury. The Hamley method only puts a cyclist's knee within the Holmes method range 45% of the time (Peveler et al. 2005)
Majority of professional cyclists pedal at 90 RPM or greater. (Lucia et al 2001)
This study sought to examine if Hamley method for performance or the Holmes method for injury prevention.
Based on their research and other research, concluded that wingate test is good performance indicator and can detect differences in set-up changes.
Used cyclists and non-cyclists in study.
No significant differences in mean power or peak power between 25 degree, 35 degree knee angle, and 109% of inseam method. No significant saddle height differences based on gender either.
Subjects whose 109% result fell outside the 25-35 range demonstrated a significant difference in mean power compared to their 25 knee angle trial. However, when only cyclists were examined in this group, the comparison was close to, but not significantly different. (p = .069). Those with lower saddle height (outside the range) had a mean power significantly higher at 25 degrees and this was true for both cyclists and non-cyclists. In individuals with higher saddle height (less than 25 degrees) no differences were found when compared to mean or peak power compared to 25 degrees.
"There were no significant differences found between a knee angle of 25 and 35 degrees or between 35 degree knee angle and 109% of inseam in any measure during the study"
The 109% method fell with the recommended range 37% of the time.
Reports that studies did show decreased performance at lower saddle heights, although knee angle was not measured p. 1026
When knee angles measured on subjects' regular bike set-up, all fell within recommended range except one. Mean knee angle was 26. Authors indicate this could be the reason performance declined outside the range. Lists references indicating there is specificity for cycling position in cyclists and triathletes (p. 1026)
Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop (2007) recommended from research data that using the 25-35 angle produces better results than a percentage of inseam (109%), which fell outside of this range in some subjects. This provides evidence that dynamic measurement is superior.
Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop (2007) data suggest a higher power with higher saddle height in both cyclists and non-cyclists.
It is problematic that other studies recommend saddle height based on inseam alone. One problem is the variability of knee angles that results. Establishing saddle height based on inseam is problematic as studies indicate measurements based on inseam yield highly variable knee angles (Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop (2007), and (Peveler et al. 2005)) 37% and 45% respectively. This may be due to anthropometric differences femur, tibia, foot differences. Or, perhaps pedalling style differences, or load, or incline. Or mechanical differences Pedal, seat, crank arm (q-factor).
Use of knee angle is superior because of the limiting extreme positions (Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop, 2007) and is recommended by fit experts who deal with injuries (Baker, Pruitt)
Some studies have shown decrease power at lower saddle heights, but knee angle was not used (Hamley and Thomas 1967; Shenum, Devries 1976; Nordeen-Snyder, 1977). Since Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop (2007) demonstrated the differences or saddle height techniques and emphasizes the use of knee angle, a need exists for studying performance variables based on knee angles.
Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop (2007) examined performance based on anaerobic power using the Wingate test, whereas in the current study aerobic efficiency was examined.
Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop (2007) found no significant differences between 25 and 35 degrees so in this study we sought to examine angles outside of this range.
No significant differences in mean power or peak power between 25 degree, 35 degree knee angle, and 109% of inseam method (Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop, 2007)
Recommends using the range and closer to 25 degrees.
This supports Peveler, Pounders, and Bishop (2007) lack of significance in differences at 25, 35, and the 109% inseam methods.
Both Martin and Peveler established their testing that performance may have been effected by specificity. Given that other studies (??) support specificity it is interesting that these findings show no significance outside the normal range.0 -
Price, D., & Donne, B. (1997, August). Effect of variation in seat tube angle at different seat heights on submaximal cycling performance in man. / Effet de la variation de l ' angle d ' inclinaison du tube de selle pour differentes hauteurs de la selle, sur la performance sous-maximale de cyclisme chez un homme. Journal of Sports Sciences, 15(4), 395-402. Retrieved July 7, 2009, from SPORTDiscus database.
Abstract
The effect of seat tube angle at selected seat heights (96, 100 and 104 percent trochanteric height) on heart rate, VO2 and lower limb kinematics was evaluated in 14 competitive male road racing cyclists during discontinuous submaximal exercise (200 W) on an air-resistance ergometer at seat tube angles of 68, 74 and 80 degrees. The tests were randomized to complete the nine combinations (three seat heights, three tube angles) in opposite directions from a starting tube angle of 74 degrees and 100 percent trochanteric height to avoid any time or sequence bias. Power efficiency was calculated for each combination from work done and VO2. All results were analysed using ANOVA for repeated measures. At a seat tube angle of 80 degrees, mean VO2 was significantly lower and power efficiency significantly higher compared with an angle of 74 degrees at all three seat heights, while heart rate was significantly lower only at a seat height equal to trochanteric height. At a seat tube angle of 74 degrees, mean VO2 and heart rate were significantly lower and power efficiency significantly higher compared with an angle of 68 degrees at all three seat heights. Hip range of movement and maximum and minimum hip angle were significantly less at an angle of 80 degrees compared with 68 degrees. Further biomechanical analysis suggested that the improvement in cycling efficiency observed at steeper seat tube angles was produced in part by the resultant altered ankling pattern of the cyclist.
Notes
Saddle was slid fore and aft to make the seat tube and "effective" angle. No mention of the saddle type or where on the saddle each sat.
At seat heights of 104% of trochanteric height (recorded knee angle 22.5 degrees, SD 6.5), VO2 and heart rate were significantly higher and power efficiency significantly lower than both 96 (recorded knee angle 33.6 degrees, SD 6.0) and 100% (recorded knee angle 43.1 degrees, SD 7.1) trochanteric height.
No mention of controlling for torso angle.
As seat height increased, ankle plantarflexion increased at the bottom of the pedal stroke, while at the top of the pedal stroke minimum angle did not change.
Suggested possible explanations for improved cardiorespiratory efficiency with increased seat tube ankle include the effect of the hip angle on the cardiovascular system, muscle force-length relationship, and alterations of ankling.
Speculated that increasing tube angle improves effective force transfer during the second half of the pedal stroke (90 to 180).0 -
BRESSEL, E., and B. J. LARSON. Bicycle Seat Designs and Their Effect on Pelvic Angle, Trunk Angle, and Comfort. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 35, No. 2, pp. 327-332, 2003.
Purpose: To examine whether bicycle seats with anterior-medial cutouts influence pelvic angle, trunk angle, and comfort in female subjects during cycling.
Methods: Twenty female cyclists pedaled a stationary bicycle with their hands on the tops and drops of the handlebars under three different saddle conditions (standard, partial, and complete cutout designs). Pelvic angle was measured using an inclinometer attached to a caliper whereas trunk angle was quantified from digitization of video images. Comfort level was assessed subjectively by having participants rank the saddles from most to least comfortable.
Results: Anterior pelvic tilt angles for the partial and complete cutout saddles were 8% and 16% greater, respectively, than values for the standard saddle condition (P < 0.05). Trunk flexion angles were greater for the complete versus standard and partial cutout designs (P < 0.05). Participants displayed a 77% greater anterior pelvic tilt angle and an 11% greater trunk flexion angle in the drop versus top handlebar positions (P < 0.05). A total of 55% of the subjects ranked the partial cutout saddle as the most comfortable, and 30% ranked the standard saddle as the most comfortable.
Conclusions: These data indicate that partial and complete cutout saddle designs may increase anterior pelvic tilt, and saddles with a complete cutout design may increase trunk flexion angles under select cycling conditions. A saddle with a partial cutout design may be more comfortable than a standard or complete cutout saddle design.0 -
SPEARS, I. R., N. K. CUMMINS, Z. BRENCHLEY, C. DONOHUE, C. TURNBULL, S. BURTON, and G. A. MACHO. The Effect of Saddle Design on Stresses in the Perineum during Cycling. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 35, No. 9, pp. 1620-1625, 2003.
Purpose: Repetitive internal stress in the perineum has been associated with soft-tissue trauma in bicyclists. Using an engineering approach, the purpose of this study was to quantify the amount of compression exerted in the perineum for a range of saddle widths and orientations.
Methods: Computer tomography was used to create a three-dimensional voxel-based finite element model of the right side of the male perineum-pelvis. For the creation of the saddle model, a commercially available saddle was digitized and the surface manipulated to represent a variety of saddle widths and orientations. The two models were merged, and a static downward load of 189 N was applied to the model at the region representing the sacroiliac joint. For validation purposes, external stresses along the perineum-saddle interface were compared with the results of pressure sensitive film. Good agreement was found for these external stresses. The saddles were then stretched and rotated, and the magnitude and location of maximum stresses within the perineum were both recorded. In all cases, the model of the pelvis-perineum was held in an upright position.
Results: Stresses within the perineum were reduced when the saddle was sufficiently wide to support both ischial tuberosities. This supporting mechanism was best achieved when the saddle was at least two times wider than the bi-ischial width of the cyclist. Stresses in the anterior of the perineum were reduced when the saddle was tilted downward, whereas stresses in the posterior were reduced when the saddle was tilted upward.
Conclusions: Recommendations that saddles should be sufficiently wide to support the ischial tuberosities appear to be well founded. Recommendations that saddles be tilted downward (i.e., nose down) are supported by the model, but with caution, given the limitations of the model.
The perineum, the region lying between the external genitals and anus, is not well designed to undergo compressive stress, and the link between bicycling and damage to the perineum is becoming cause for concern (4,9,13,15,26). In case studies, the problems have been resolved with a variety of solutions ranging from adjusting saddle orientation (3) to immediate cessation of cycling (20). Although these recommendations appear to provide short-term relief, they are seldom founded on scientific evidence. The exceptions are isolated studies, which have identified a potential relationship between cycling and trauma to the perineum by comparing indicative measures including penile brachial index (7) and transcutaneous penile oxygen pressure (10,21) in different cycling positions (e.g., standing/seated). Although there are anecdotal suggestions that seat padding may reduce perineal compression, saddle design is found to be more influential (17). Most importantly, a significant inverse relationship between saddle width and reduction in penile oxygen pressure has been reported (17). Unfortunately, the experimental set-up did not allow these researchers to isolate the results, and therefore they were unable to determine the amount and location of compression within the perineum. Hence, an alternative method was chosen for the present study.
Finite element analysis is a numerical method for solving problems of engineering. Its ability to simulate intricate geometry, complex loads, and inhomogeneous materials is exclusive and allows examination of structures inaccessible by traditional experimental procedures . By creating a three-dimensional finite element model of the perineum, derived from computer tomography (CT) images, and of various saddle designs, this study aims to quantify the effect of (a) saddle orientation and (b) saddle width on the stresses in the perineum.0 -
The effect of saddle design on stresses in the perineum during cycling
Article Abstract:
Research shows that adequately wider saddles are recommended to support the ischial tuberosities and to reduce stress within the perineum. Data suggest that a saddle at least two times wider than the bi-ischial width of the cyclist is considered a wide saddle. Furthermore, stresses in the anterior of the perineum can be reduced by tilting the saddle downward.
Complete article.
http://www.spiderflex.com/Seat%20Design ... spears.pdf0 -
Bicycle saddle shape affects penile blood flow
S-J Jeong1, K Park2, J-D Moon3 and S B Ryu2
1Research Institute of Clinical Sciences, Chonnam National University Medical School, Gwangju, Republic of Korea
2Department of Urology, Chonnam National University Medical School, Gwangju, Republic of Korea
3Department of Occupational and Environmental Medicine, Chonnam National University Medical School, Gwangju, Republic of Korea
Correspondence to: K Park, Department of Urology, Chonnam National University Medical School, 8-Hak-dong, Dong-Ku, Gwangju 501-757, Republic of Korea. E-mail: kpark@chonnam.ac.kr
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effect of bicycle saddle shape on penile blood flow during cycling. Penile blood flow was measured using a laser Doppler flowmeter in 20 potent male volunteers. In a counterbalanced, crossover design, measurements were taken in the standing and sitting positions, on either a narrow unpadded or wide unpadded saddle, before and after cycling for 5 min. Before cycling, penile blood flow (ml/min/100 g tissue) was significantly decreased from 1.6±0.7 to 1.5±0.7 (P=0.010) on the wide saddle and from 1.7±0.6 to 1.0±0.5 (P<0.001) on the narrow saddle. After 5 min of cycling, the changes in penile blood flow on the wide and narrow saddles were 0.34±0.49 and -0.38±0.49, respectively (P<0.001). The narrow saddle is associated with more significant reductions in penile blood flow and could be a source of blunt perineal trauma, potentially leading to erectile dysfunction.0 -
Title: Effects of a novel bicycle saddle on symptoms and comfort in cyclists.
Personal Authors: Keytel, L. R., Noakes, T. D.
Author Affiliation: Department of Human Biology, University of Cape Town Medical School, Sports Science Institute of South Africa, Rondebosch, South Africa.
Editors: No editors
Document Title: SAMJ - South African Medical Journal
Abstract:
Background: While the bicycle frame and other parts of the bicycle have undergone many improvements, the bicycle saddle has remained relatively unchanged since it was first designed more than 100 years ago. Given the number and range of cycling injuries believed to result from the saddle, this is surprising. This study investigated the effects of a novel bicycle saddle on saddle-related comfort and symptoms during cycling in South Africa. Method: 11 competitive or recreational cyclists, 6 females and 5 males, performed three 2-hour stationary cycle rides in the laboratory, using their personal bicycles. Ride 1 was performed using the standard bicycle saddle and rides 2 and 3 using the novel bicycle saddle. Subjects reported saddle comfort rating scores (SC) while using the different saddles. Subjects also completed a questionnaire evaluating saddle symptoms (SS) when using either the conventional or the novel bicycle saddle during daily cycling. Results: The most common saddle-related medical complaint with chronic use of the conventional saddle was painful pubic bones, with or without chafing. Others were severe chafing, saddle sores, chafing and back pain, and painful pubic bones associated with a loss of feeling in the pelvic area. The mean SS rating score during the 2-hour laboratory ride was significantly less for the novel saddle (11.6±1.2 versus 19.1±3.2 arbitrary units, P<0.01). Similarly the mean SC score was significantly lower for the novel saddle (36.2±10.5 v. 54.7±11.2 arbitrary units). Values for both SC scores were similar for rides 2 and 3. On completion of the trial all subjects indicated that they would continue to use the novel saddle in preference to the conventional saddle. Three months later 9 subjects (82%) reported continued use of this saddle in preference to the conventional saddle. Conclusion: These results show conclusively that this novel bicycle saddle: (i) significantly reduced reported symptoms during daily cycling compared with the conventionally designed cycling saddle; (ii) significantly improved saddle comfort during 2-hour cycles in the laboratory, such that (iii) when given the option the majority (82%) of the subjects chose to use this saddle 3 months later. Furthermore, the beneficial effects of the novel saddle were apparent during its first use, suggesting that the novel saddle is effective because the design is anatomically correct.
Publisher: SA Medical Association Health and Medical Publishing Group0 -
Sweet Jesus...!
I was going to request that someone stop him, but he appears to have run out of random quotes!Complicating matters since 19650 -
:shock: I'd daren't think what this guy is on but it can't be legal
Kev
Summer Bike: Colnago C60
Winter Bike: Vitus Alios
MTB: 1997 GT Karakorum0 -
The Competitive Fit.
Wanna look like a pro? This is the fit. It features a low, aerodynamic bar position that places slightly more weight on the hands than on the pedals and saddle. a close knee to pedal spindle ratio that emphasizes power and efficiency ,, and it puts the rider low in the handlebar drops. Typically the frame chosen will be the smallest that is appropriate. In fact, since the heyday of mountain bikes in the 1990s and more recent studies of professionals looking for an aerodynamic advantage, the Competitive Fit has become most bike shop's conventional wisdom.
After all, who doesn't want to look and ride like a pro? This fit is easy to sell but may not work for you since it actually best suits those who are willing to accept its clear emphasis on speed over comfort. For most of us, the pure Competitive Fit is too extreme even if it is still viable for young riders and racers, for those who love shorter, faster rides, and for those who just find this comfortable. Expect to be rather low even on the tops of the bars where you will spend the majority of your cruising time on the brake hoods, expect too to be lifting your neck slightly to see ahead of you with a rather "short and deep" reach into the bars as you push back on the saddle to stretch out.
The Competitive Fit creates a more compact body position with the chest low and the back as flat as is necessary to get down into the drops. The saddle to handlebar drop is sometimes as much 10cm or more.
The Eddy Fit.
Lots of folks find the Competitive Fit to be ideal. But for those who find its aerodynamic emphasis to be overly aggressive and uncomfortable, the Eddy Fit is almost certain to be ideal for you. It's a position that reminds us of the way Eddy Merckx looked on his bike in the early 1970s, and it dates from well before Eddy's time and continued in the pro peloton well into the 1980s.
There is nothing "dated" about this style of riding. We all know that Eddy, Bernard, and Guiseppe were all very, very fast riders! Bike design has not, in fact, changed that radically since their time---only the look, the fashion, and the style of riding. The Eddy Fit is simply no longer the "fashion" among pros who keep pressing the envelope of comfort to create more efficiency and power.
The Eddy Fit emphasizes less saddle to bar drop. You will notice less exposed seat post on traditional frames and a lower saddle to bar ratio on all fits, including compact designs. Typically it requires a size up of about 2-3cm in frame size from what is today usually offered by in current aero professional look of today. But make no mistake about it, this fit will get you down the road with speed, efficiency, and power.
A few differences from the Competitive Fit in addition to a taller front end and less saddle/bar drop is a less craned neck and easier forward-looking position, slightly less weight on the hands and more on the saddle and pedals, and a knee position that usually moves a bit behind the spindle (rather than a knee-over-the-spindle position, thus adding a bit of power). Bikes set up for the Eddy Fit change their look only subtly in comparison to the Competitive Fit though the results are dramatic in terms of greater comfort. This fit is easier on the neck and shoulders but no less suited for racing or fast solo or club riding.
We adjust this fit by "sizing up" the frame and adjusting the stem lengths to create proper balance, proportion, and to maximize the frame's potential. This position lets you into the drops with less stress on the neck and back and so encourages you to go low into the bars for longer periods. The Eddy Fit typically features a saddle/bar drop of only a few centimeters.
The French Fit.
This fit is so named because of its legacy in the traditions of endurance road riding such as brevet rides and randonneuring. However, the French Fit isn't merely about touring, riding long, or even sitting more upright. It is about getting the most out of a bike that fits larger and provides much more comfort to the neck, back, and saddle position.
While the Competitive Fit generally puts you on the smallest appropriate frame and the Eddy Fit sizes up a bit or raises the bars, the French Fit puts you on the largest appropriate frame. While this bucks some current conventional wisdom - and is, in fact, the least commonly used position of the three we espouse - it is still the position advocated by some of cycling's wisest and most experienced designers, who also happened to be riders who like to go fast and far with an ideal amount of comfort.
This fit features a taller front end (with a larger frame and/or head tube extension and stem), handlebar to saddle drops that are much closer to level, and favors riders who are looking to ease stress on the neck and back, ride as long and as far as they like, and are not concerned with the looking like an aggressive professional. In comparison to the Eddy Fit, the rider has even more weight rearward and a slightly more upright position such that "hands in the drops position" is close to the Competitive Fit's "hands on the hoods position." Some may say that this was not how modern race bikes were "meant" to fit but we have learned that the French Fit's size up tradition works great on the most modern bikes.
By increasing the frame size we raise the bars without radical riser stems and still create balance and proportion with respect to the important knee-to-pedal dynamic. It is important to remember that as frames get larger the top tube effectively shortens. This means that the longer top tube on a larger frame is appropriate because as the bars come "up" and the ratio of saddle to bar drop lessens, the rider achieves a "reach" from the saddle to the handlebars that is just right!
We recommend this fit for riders who really want to be comfortable and fast over longer distances. Please note that the French Fit disregards all emphasis on stand over height (standing with the bike between your legs and your shoes flat on the ground) because the French Fit school believes that this measurement has little actual value regarding fit. An ideal compromise for those who can't shed their concern regarding stand over height is the choice of a "sized up" compact design to achieve a higher relative handlebar position.
Nevertheless, a French Fit can work with traditional, non-sloping frames as well. As an example, a person who might ride a 55cm or 56cm frame to achieve the Competitive Fit, might ride as much as a 59cm or 60cm in the French Fit. While bikes in the French Fit are not the racer's fashion they tend to look elegant, well proportioned, and ride like a dream.0 -
OMG there's even more :roll:Kev
Summer Bike: Colnago C60
Winter Bike: Vitus Alios
MTB: 1997 GT Karakorum0 -
Symptoms of an overly downward pointing saddle.................
Might be an overly upward pointing bottom
I ride therefore I am0 -
So it's all settled, right????0
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Went on a ride yesterday after spirit level job on flat ground. Tipped the saddle down a fraction. What a difference. Took all the pain away. I am more perched, more on my sit bones, which is at it should be, projecting more forward creating more power.
If you get serious pressure on your hands, shoulders with the saddle tipped, then you may also have the saddle too high increasing downward pressure.
Signed Bonker Bollocks.0 -
Slow Downcp wrote:Pain between your sack and crack, as you're leaning on the soft tissue in instead of sitting on your ar5e.
This first post is bollocks in reply to "The effect of a downward pointing saddle"
Pointing it down, results in more on your seat bones and less or no pressure on your sack & crack. If you tilt it up you get pain.
Infamous quote: The saddle is not a sofa.
Thread closed . 0 -
sandbag wrote:Slow Downcp wrote:Pain between your sack and crack, as you're leaning on the soft tissue in instead of sitting on your ar5e.
This first post is bollocks in reply to "The effect of a downward pointing saddle"
Pointing it down, results in more on your seat bones and less or no pressure on your sack & crack. If you tilt it up you get pain.
Infamous quote: The saddle is not a sofa.
Thread closed .
Thanks for clearing that up.0 -
softlad wrote:sandbag wrote:
The ideal is a tiny tilt, just a few degrees nose down from horizontal.
for you - maybe.
Exactly, and if that was the case, then I think more of the pros would do it. From what I can see, the vast majority have them level. OK, I appreciate the pros are different but still.
Personally I've found the most comfortable to be dead level, but everyone's different.0 -
sampras38 wrote:softlad wrote:sandbag wrote:
The ideal is a tiny tilt, just a few degrees nose down from horizontal.
for you - maybe.
Exactly, and if that was the case, then I think more of the pros would do it. From what I can see, the vast majority have them level. OK, I appreciate the pros are different but still.
Personally I've found the most comfortable to be dead level, but everyone's different.
Level is fine for me usually, but because i recently got the perenial pain last week, i tried pointing the saddle down to take the pain away, which worked. I believe i had the saddle tilted up slightly before which brought it on. I use the spirit level in future. When level, not everybody suffers from the perineal problem or soreness.0
