What;s your average power output
Comments
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Pokerface wrote:An 'all-out' effort over 15 miles at 200w isn't bad. It just isn't impressive, etc.
But was it really an all-out effort?
The terrain can make it difficult to get higher wattage numbers - if you spend time 'cruising' along or freewheeling, etc - your wattage will come down.
But 200w for 45 mins would put your FTP below 200w - which isn't good.
No it was not an all out effort, it was 35-40bps below an all out effort. The terrain was bumpy, only 3% max gradient, but I can't help but think that 1% or 3% or any gradient on the turbo feels much harder than the same in real life
I'm probably going to go on the trainer tonight, unsure what course I'll be doing but I'm hoping to try and keep my HR at around 180-190 and see what the results are, depends I might get told to back down.0 -
phreak wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:Got a mate with a powertap pro to use my turbo last night to see how my power measurement compares to his. Quite glad to see my turbo seemed to be a fairly constant 20watts lower than the powertap - of course it doesn't make me any faster but it's nice to know anyway!
So if I get back to last Springs numbers at around 320 watts (done as a fairly hard effort but not flat out killing myself) for my 2*20s and around 12.5 stone (target - I'm actually 13'3 now but we'll gloss over that) what kind of standard should I be looking at/how to I compare to most ? Planning on doing a few open TTs this year and LVRC /lower cat BC racing.
If you're pushing out 4watts per kg surely you could do better than lower cat BC racing? The table in the training with power book suggests cat 3 racers are roughly 3-4watts per kg.
The answer is no because I am a third cat ! There have been times when I've been on form when I've felt I had the fitness to do better but lack of race experience/confidence/acceleration (jump) in 3rd cat bunches have been the limiters.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Isn't the answer that yes you could but your power to weight ratio isn't your limiter, its your jump and self-confidence that are.
Its your limiters that need the most work So if you're not doing so already you need to do some sessions which will help improve your jump.
I reckon once you've jumped a few times, even if you get caught again, your confidence to have a go will improve. Jumping the first few times is a bit unnerving because you're worried about failing. I think (easily said) the answer is to take a "death or glory" attitude when you go off and not worry too much about if it will or will not ultimately succeed, but you have to commit to it.
You could try approaching a few races (short evening races are good for this) with different tactics. So for instance, tonight I'm going to keep trying to jump first, if you get caught and dropped because you're too knackered, does it really matter? You miss 30 - 40 minutes of racing. Still different to riding around in the bunch all night if you know you can manage that anyway. Another night you may decide, I'm only going to try to jump when 3 guys have already gone up the road 150-200m and then I'll try and jump across to them.
It may not work, but sometimes it will and when it does a few times, you will start to get the confidence to do it again and again. With 320W and no jump in a Cat 3/4 race I bet you are a popular bunch engine (like me
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Sorry guys, it does not really matter what power you can do on a turbo, if you cannot close a gap at 30+mph you will not hold a wheel and get dropped in better races.
Ok for TT's but not really relevant for racing and cannot use it as a guide as to what standard racing you can do.
Some riders are explosive and can generate large power enabling them to close gap, but may not have such good endurance power output as some of you guys, but once that guy closes a gap and gets onto the wheel, he only needs approx 80% power as the attacker to stay on due to slipstreaming.
I had a quick go on turbo and struggled a bit to maintain constant power but on the track I don't get dropped and win races so must be going ok
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It has its place though, if you can only generate low powers, you won't even stay in a bunch at a lower speed, let alone when the hammer goes down. At 4W/Kg, that's a reasonable indicator that he's going to be okay in the bunch, it's just the bit's where powerful accelerations are required.
What Tom was saying he can sit in the bunch is as you describe, it's the shorter efforts where he's lacking and it is therefore his limiter. I assume that is where 1 minute or 5 minute power levels become more relevant. The flipside is I have a few club mates who have plenty of top end power and close gaps over short distances and at high speed fairly easily, but take them on a longer run and keep the pace high, their 1 hour power levels are still insufficient, even when they are slipstreaming and injecting a few bursts on top of some pressure over a longer effort is usually enough to see them off. In that scenario, their lower 1 hour power to weight ratio is probably a good indicator that it's one of their racing limiters.
If you can get to a point where you are knocking out a decent 1hr P/W and then start imroving your short duration P/W, chances are that road racing is probably going to be okay for you. If you can't, it's probably always going to be bl**dy hard.0 -
I think you can use it as a rough guide, the same way that you can use TTing ability as a "rough guide" - especially as non-elite riders don't really specialise as often as elites. A high FTP allows you to recover well after you've closed that gap at 30mph, so you can close the next one...oldwelshman wrote:Sorry guys, it does not really matter what power you can do on a turbo, if you cannot close a gap at 30+mph you will not hold a wheel and get dropped in better races.
Ok for TT's but not really relevant for racing and cannot use it as a guide as to what standard racing you can do.
Some riders are explosive and can generate large power enabling them to close gap, but may not have such good endurance power output as some of you guys, but once that guy closes a gap and gets onto the wheel, he only needs approx 80% power as the attacker to stay on due to slipstreaming.
I had a quick go on turbo and struggled a bit to maintain constant power but on the track I don't get dropped and win races so must be going ok
@oldwelshman: If you chose to practice steady power on a turbo you'd probably get good output fairly quickly. I went from 2x20 min intervals at 250W to 2x20 mins at 330W in about 2 weeks, just through learning how to ride a turbo well (having avoided them entirely for 2 years and still managed to race at a decent level). Whether you want to is a different matter! 8)0 -
I don't think it's 1min/5minute power that's a problem - I think it's actually acceleration like OW says. When there's been a long sprint I'm not that bad - but I've ridden crits where there's been a prime and suddenly every takes off and I lose 10 places !
A lot is I hardly race though- at most half a dozen RRs a season - not anything like enough I know. Not over fussed though - I enjoy the training and being a cyclist and the races are as much to give the training some point rather than the thing I do it all for - planning to do a few more this year though so maybe that'll change.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Got a mate with a powertap pro to use my turbo last night to see how my power measurement compares to his. Quite glad to see my turbo seemed to be a fairly constant 20watts lower than the powertap - of course it doesn't make me any faster but it's nice to know anyway!
So if I get back to last Springs numbers at around 320 watts (done as a fairly hard effort but not flat out killing myself) for my 2*20s and around 12.5 stone (target - I'm actually 13'3 now but we'll gloss over that) what kind of standard should I be looking at/how to I compare to most ? Planning on doing a few open TTs this year and LVRC /lower cat BC racing.
Hi Tom,
I am around 11'5 in weight, and did a fitness test on the road on one of our local spoco courses this week. It was on the road bike with no aero atuff.
Anyhow - I put out a NP of 304W for 27 mins. This was slightly higher than when I last did this session in June 2009.
In the real world of racing this typical power output sees me with a 10 pb of 21'12 and a 25 of 56'28.
Road racing - I am currently 3rd cat but like yourself probably do less than 10 BC races per season. I am usually in the first group on the road (after inevitably missing the break ;-)
I am a bit of a TT novice, last season was my first though have RR'd for a few years. your w/kg ratio is similar to mine, variable such as aero position and ability to grind the power out in yor optimal position would affect your times, but why not 'aim' for a 22 / long 21 min Ten?0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:My tempo sessions on the turbo have been averaging at about 240w.
For how long?
If this is your average for 2 hours (see the OP), then I'm more impressed by your ability to spend 2 hours on a turbo trainer than I am by the 240W average.0 -
gandhi wrote:
I think you can use it as a rough guide, the same way that you can use TTing ability as a "rough guide" - especially as non-elite riders don't really specialise as often as elites. A high FTP allows you to recover well after you've closed that gap at 30mph, so you can close the next one...oldwelshman wrote:Sorry guys, it does not really matter what power you can do on a turbo, if you cannot close a gap at 30+mph you will not hold a wheel and get dropped in better races.
Ok for TT's but not really relevant for racing and cannot use it as a guide as to what standard racing you can do.
Some riders are explosive and can generate large power enabling them to close gap, but may not have such good endurance power output as some of you guys, but once that guy closes a gap and gets onto the wheel, he only needs approx 80% power as the attacker to stay on due to slipstreaming.
I had a quick go on turbo and struggled a bit to maintain constant power but on the track I don't get dropped and win races so must be going ok
@oldwelshman: If you chose to practice steady power on a turbo you'd probably get good output fairly quickly. I went from 2x20 min intervals at 250W to 2x20 mins at 330W in about 2 weeks, just through learning how to ride a turbo well (having avoided them entirely for 2 years and still managed to race at a decent level). Whether you want to is a different matter! 8)
Well I plan to get on the turbo and try soon as I am now working again so less trips to wales and the track unfortunately
As my target are champs in July and October not worried yet as once the weather gets better will get base miles on weekends.
I am going to try to simulate track sessions on the turbo rather than 20 x 20's.
Will focus on shorter intervals, 1min, starts and 4 min efforrts.0
