Viner Magnifica - advice

stuaff

Westerberg wrote:

so all in all, is the Magnifica considered more of a sportive/upright type bike ? I'm still a bit novice at trying to tell from the geometry:

Sportive, yes. Upright's taking it a bit far, but certainly not full on racer geometry. And you could tweak the position in any case (so get sportive frame/racer position, or race bike/sportive position). You really need to try some bikes, see what works for you & the roads you're going to ride on. No point getting a full-on racer if it's fractionally faster on the race day but it beats you up every training ride. Comfort can mean speed too....

kingrollo

mididoctors wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

You'll have a job ordering a Viner from Epic Cycles, last I heard was they were refusing to place any more orders due to inconsistent finishing quality.

There is a Viner rep on the forum though - Peter Cole - and I found him to be very helpful (even if I didn't end up going down the Viner route... :oops: )

is that right.... hmmmmm good for them if they weren't happy.

yeah the website has pulled them off

Hmmmm last year they pulled wilier, now viner, ........wots going on ?

gabriel959

kingrollo wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

You'll have a job ordering a Viner from Epic Cycles, last I heard was they were refusing to place any more orders due to inconsistent finishing quality.

There is a Viner rep on the forum though - Peter Cole - and I found him to be very helpful (even if I didn't end up going down the Viner route... :oops: )

is that right.... hmmmmm good for them if they weren't happy.

yeah the website has pulled them off

Hmmmm last year they pulled wilier, now viner, ........wots going on ?

Italian is sh1te!? Don't ya know that? :twisted:

Chip \'oyler

gabriel959 wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

You'll have a job ordering a Viner from Epic Cycles, last I heard was they were refusing to place any more orders due to inconsistent finishing quality.

There is a Viner rep on the forum though - Peter Cole - and I found him to be very helpful (even if I didn't end up going down the Viner route... :oops: )

is that right.... hmmmmm good for them if they weren't happy.

yeah the website has pulled them off

Hmmmm last year they pulled wilier, now viner, ........wots going on ?

Italian is sh1te!? Don't ya know that? :twisted:

Don't worry - Italian quality and style would be wasted on a bellum like you

gabriel959

Chip \'oyler wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

You'll have a job ordering a Viner from Epic Cycles, last I heard was they were refusing to place any more orders due to inconsistent finishing quality.

There is a Viner rep on the forum though - Peter Cole - and I found him to be very helpful (even if I didn't end up going down the Viner route... :oops: )

is that right.... hmmmmm good for them if they weren't happy.

yeah the website has pulled them off

Hmmmm last year they pulled wilier, now viner, ........wots going on ?

Italian is sh1te!? Don't ya know that? :twisted:

Don't worry - Italian quality and style would be wasted on a bellum like you

Thanks very much mate! No humour here in it? :?

I think the problem with Willier was actually due to real Quality issues with quite a large number of frames.

Toonraid

Have seen a few Wiliers with cracks and paint discoloration so that may have something to do with it. As for Italian quality - Wiliers, Pina's, Bianchi & Colnago (except EPS) are all made in asia so only botique brands such as Viner are made in Italy.

rolf_f

giant mancp wrote:

I like the fact Viner is 100% Italian and you can have custom fitting:

They certainly aren't that - though the Maxima is. Most of the rest apparently have some Far Eastern input but equally plenty of Italian input.

Toonraid

Rule of thumb seems to be Monocoque = Far East, Lugged = Italy

rolf_f

Toonraid wrote:

Rule of thumb seems to be Monocoque = Far East, Lugged = Italy

Rule of thumb would be wrong then!

pontarlier_pete

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

antikythera wrote:

For what its worth, I'd been looking at a Maxima for a while and originally talked to Epic and CycleDoctor (now defunct?).

As luck would have it I met up with Peter at the London Cycle show and met one of their new resellers, Mal from Le Beau Velo .

I had a really positive experience talking to both of them and subsequently put in an order for a Maxima. While Mal (and LeBeau Velo) don't operate in the traditional store-front manner. I think their ethos is much more in keeping with the likes of Viner.

So dispite Epics choice to drop Viner from their range, there are viable options out there.

I. Hate. You.

Git.

antikythera, I don't hate you any more

magliaceleste

Rolf F - I'd like to know where you get your info. I don't believe it.

I've had plenty of conversations with Viner UK.

AFAIK All mid to high end Viners are made (not just painted) in Italy, my Viner Mitus was for example assembled using tubing (albeit from Dedacacci) lugged, wrapped and painted in Italy.

That's why it doesn't cost more to have custom sized frames...

flanners1

Why do 'we' always beat the Italian manufacturers up for having some of their frames
built in Asia? What about the other brands who do the same Scott, Cannondale, Cervelo, Giant et al? Nearly every review and comment on Italian bicycles revolves around this mute point; it's almost seen as a negative and something to beat them with. :?:

Yes the Kudos of 100% Italian is nice gruppo, frameset and wheels but ultimately is it that important, surely it is the ride characteristics etc. I guess the whole 'Made in Italy' sticker policy the Italians use is a little foggy so does it no favours.....

magliaceleste

Flanners1 wrote:

Why do 'we' always beat the Italian manufacturers up for having some
Yes the Kudos of 100% Italian is nice gruppo, frameset and wheels but ultimately is it that important, surely it is the ride characteristics etc. I guess the whole 'Made in Italy' sticker policy the Italians use is a little foggy so does it no favours.....

I think you nailed it there. It's because they (read many italian "manufacturers") use it as a selling point and charge a made up premium because of it. If they didn't pretend it probably wouldn't be such an issue.

I agree it's all about ride quality. My bike has got that alright.

rolf_f

magliaceleste wrote:

Rolf F - I'd like to know where you get your info. I don't believe it.

I've had plenty of conversations with Viner UK.

AFAIK All mid to high end Viners are made (not just painted) in Italy, my Viner Mitus was for example assembled using tubing (albeit from Dedacacci) lugged, wrapped and painted in Italy.

Interestingly enough, my local dealer reckons only about 3 Viner frames are Taiwanese despite the fact that quite a few Viner bikes don't say made in Italy on them. I guess that Viner aren't in a hurry to be that explicit about where they are made.

I think you have made the point yourself. The tubing (in sections - eg rear triangle) apparently come from Dedacacci - and, again apparently, Dedacacci import all their frame sections from the far East – I think the Viner bespoke bit relates to how the top and down tubes mate to the rear triangles so where the sub assemblies come from is irrelevant in that respect. Of course, not so easy to prove and, oddly enough, I find it part of the Italian and Viner charm. Unfortunately, that same charm left me waiting for six months still to fail to manage to order a Perfecta thanks to Viner being unable to supply a bike to test which is why I have ordered a French (or French Tunisian!), lugged frame bike. I’d still happily get my hands on a Volata but it was not to be.

stuaff

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

antikythera wrote:

For what its worth, I'd been looking at a Maxima for a while and originally talked to Epic and CycleDoctor (now defunct?).

As luck would have it I met up with Peter at the London Cycle show and met one of their new resellers, Mal from Le Beau Velo .

I had a really positive experience talking to both of them and subsequently put in an order for a Maxima. While Mal (and LeBeau Velo) don't operate in the traditional store-front manner. I think their ethos is much more in keeping with the likes of Viner.

So dispite Epics choice to drop Viner from their range, there are viable options out there.

I. Hate. You.

Git.

antikythera, I don't hate you any more

Buying one yourself then?

magliaceleste

Rolf F wrote:

magliaceleste wrote:

Rolf F - I'd like to know where you get your info. I don't believe it.

I've had plenty of conversations with Viner UK.

AFAIK All mid to high end Viners are made (not just painted) in Italy, my Viner Mitus was for example assembled using tubing (albeit from Dedacacci) lugged, wrapped and painted in Italy.

Interestingly enough, my local dealer reckons only about 3 Viner frames are Taiwanese despite the fact that quite a few Viner bikes don't say made in Italy on them. I guess that Viner aren't in a hurry to be that explicit about where they are made.

I think you have made the point yourself. The tubing (in sections - eg rear triangle) apparently come from Dedacacci - and, again apparently, Dedacacci import all their frame sections from the far East – I think the Viner bespoke bit relates to how the top and down tubes mate to the rear triangles so where the sub assemblies come from is irrelevant in that respect. Of course, not so easy to prove and, oddly enough, I find it part of the Italian and Viner charm. Unfortunately, that same charm left me waiting for six months still to fail to manage to order a Perfecta thanks to Viner being unable to supply a bike to test which is why I have ordered a French (or French Tunisian!), lugged frame bike. I’d still happily get my hands on a Volata but it was not to be.

Yeah it's a weird thing but they don't. I always thought it was stupid on my frame.
The front triangle tubing is from Dedacacci but is mitred, cut, lugged etc in Tuscany as far as I know. I expect Pete from VinerUK will comment. The rear ends on anything other than the Maxima RS (which again are hand made) are Dedacaccai assemblies I think. The frames are then also painted etc in Italy.

I don't think anyone outside of the east actually makes carbon tubing anymore do they (really). The ride quality is all in the tubing type/quality selected and the assembly.

Anyway Rolf what are you getting instead? Is it a Look or Time by any chance? I've recently come across a Time RXR UL Team and really like the look (kind of more like the old angular Mitus)

rolf_f

magliaceleste wrote:

Anyway Rolf what are you getting instead? Is it a Look or Time by any chance? I've recently come across a Time RXR UL Team and really like the look (kind of more like the old angular Mitus)

Look 585 Optimum - fortunately a shorter frame than the vast majority of bikes (suits my body - if I was shorter I'd probably fit womens frame bikes better than the average mens frame!) which is one reason why I was so keen to get a made to measure Viner. All of a sudden, there seem to be a few more shorter framed bikes around. Tried a Scott CR1 but for all its monocoque technology, it just didn't make me want to grab it by the scruff of its neck like the Look did. Did prove to me I was right to wait for a Viner to test, even though it resulted in me not buying one, than ordering based on positive opinion here. However good a bike might be, I think you need to try one, or something fairly near, to be sure it will work for you.

PS Lugs are cool 8)

Toonraid

My wife has one of those - 585 opt is the most comfortable bike i have ridden and I could tell that by just riding it 100 yards - difference was that huge! Mind you it was on Neutrons with latex tubes and i am sure the combination made it even more so.

Not sure how much the viner was but could have gone down the EPS route too (lugged too and hand made in italy).

rolf_f

Toonraid wrote:

My wife has one of those - 585 opt is the most comfortable bike i have ridden and I could tell that by just riding it 100 yards - difference was that huge! Mind you it was on Neutrons with latex tubes and i am sure the combination made it even more so.

Not sure how much the viner was but could have gone down the EPS route too (lugged too and hand made in italy).

Nice to hear good reports! Mines going to be on Neutrons with Vittoria ultra-lightweight innertubes. For the record, it's getting mostly Campag Centaur carbon kit plus 10spd Record front and rear mechs. Obviously, will post full details when I get the bike

The Colnago looks rather nice but the frame alone is only about £300 cheaper than my entire build. I reckon I'd have gone Maxima at that price.

Chip \'oyler

Rolf F wrote:

magliaceleste wrote:

Rolf F - I'd like to know where you get your info. I don't believe it.

I've had plenty of conversations with Viner UK.

AFAIK All mid to high end Viners are made (not just painted) in Italy, my Viner Mitus was for example assembled using tubing (albeit from Dedacacci) lugged, wrapped and painted in Italy.

Interestingly enough, my local dealer reckons only about 3 Viner frames are Taiwanese despite the fact that quite a few Viner bikes don't say made in Italy on them. I guess that Viner aren't in a hurry to be that explicit about where they are made.

I think you have made the point yourself. The tubing (in sections - eg rear triangle) apparently come from Dedacacci - and, again apparently, Dedacacci import all their frame sections from the far East – I think the Viner bespoke bit relates to how the top and down tubes mate to the rear triangles so where the sub assemblies come from is irrelevant in that respect. Of course, not so easy to prove and, oddly enough, I find it part of the Italian and Viner charm. Unfortunately, that same charm left me waiting for six months still to fail to manage to order a Perfecta thanks to Viner being unable to supply a bike to test which is why I have ordered a French (or French Tunisian!), lugged frame bike. I’d still happily get my hands on a Volata but it was not to be.

I'm lead to believe that the main tubes on the Maxima are from the same source that supplies Ferrari and Ducati. Whether Dedacacci supply these two marques I don't know - but seeing as Viner get the main tubes custom made up to suit the riders weight, style etc leads me to believe they are sourced in Italy. As you say, the rear triangle and forks are Dedacacci. However the new Maxima RS has a custom drawn rear triangle too, so perhaps this is Italian sourced. Only the forks would be Deda.

Perhaps the RS is the nearest thing to a truly Italian made frame?

upsetter

If you're looking for a handmade italian manufacturer - Casati.

Definately made in Italy.

gabriel959

upsetter wrote:

If you're looking for a handmade italian manufacturer - Casati.

Definately made in Italy.

Don't upset the Viner bridgade!!!

Anonymous

Just don't do an image search at work for milani :shock: :shock:

Milani do full custom too...

holybinch

NapoleonD wrote:

Just don't do an image search at work for milani :shock: :shock:

Milani do full custom too...

But you could already tell from the said pictures...

antikythera

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

antikythera wrote:

For what its worth, I'd been looking at a Maxima for a while and originally talked to Epic and CycleDoctor (now defunct?).

As luck would have it I met up with Peter at the London Cycle show and met one of their new resellers, Mal from Le Beau Velo .

I had a really positive experience talking to both of them and subsequently put in an order for a Maxima. While Mal (and LeBeau Velo) don't operate in the traditional store-front manner. I think their ethos is much more in keeping with the likes of Viner.

So dispite Epics choice to drop Viner from their range, there are viable options out there.

I. Hate. You.

Git.

antikythera, I don't hate you any more

You may in two weeks. Had notification that the frame is sitting in Pistoia ready to be shipped in the next day or so. Then a week of phaffing around for the build coz I'd like to be there when it's built up....

I should be able to confirm a real-world weight for a 58cm frame

upsetter

I see what you did there gabriel959!

Also Somec - lovely looking bikes.

gabriel959

upsetter wrote:

I see what you did there gabriel959!

Also Somec - lovely looking bikes.

pontarlier_pete

antikythera wrote:

Had notification that the frame is sitting in Pistoia ready to be shipped in the next day or so. Then a week of phaffing around for the build coz I'd like to be there when it's built up....

I should be able to confirm a real-world weight for a 58cm frame

Sounds good, don't forget the obligatory photo's!

simonaspinall

upsetter wrote:

If you're looking for a handmade italian manufacturer - Casati.

Definately made in Italy.

And it rides beautifully!

www.racescene.co.uk

measured, specced and set-up how you like it.

Italian boutique exotica - I would definitely choose a Casati for my next purchase.

magliaceleste

antikythera wrote:

You may in two weeks. Had notification that the frame is sitting in Pistoia ready to be shipped in the next day or so. Then a week of phaffing around for the build coz I'd like to be there when it's built up....

I should be able to confirm a real-world weight for a 58cm frame

I reckon from Viner experience that it will weigh more than you think, but ride better than you imagine.