"English Spoken"

teagar

rake wrote:

likewise its ok to abreviate british to being a brit, why can this be done yet you can't abreviate pakistani. same thing but one is ok the other idescribably horrific.

It's all about the context.

The word 'Brit' has not been used as a pejorative and derogatory word, nor has it been used in order to racially discriminate.

"Paki" has. That's why it's a horrible word.

markwalker

teagar wrote:

rake wrote:

likewise its ok to abreviate british to being a brit, why can this be done yet you can't abreviate pakistani. same thing but one is ok the other idescribably horrific.

It's all about the context.

The word 'Brit' has not been used as a pejorative and derogatory word, nor has it been used in order to racially discriminate.

"Paki" has. That's why it's a horrible word.

I think youll find in some parts of the world brit is used in that way. its just your context framework is incomplete.

rake

teagar wrote:

rake wrote:

likewise its ok to abreviate british to being a brit, why can this be done yet you can't abreviate pakistani. same thing but one is ok the other idescribably horrific.

It's all about the context.

The word 'Brit' has not been used as a pejorative and derogatory word, nor has it been used in order to racially discriminate.

"Paki" has. That's why it's a horrible word.

how do you know brit hasnt been used in this manner.even if it is you couldnt assume vereyone saying it was been nasty. i dont use the word by the way before any accusations come around. just doesnt seem to make sense.

Anonymous

teagar wrote:

I didn't stand up no.

I'm 5ft7 and weigh 52kgs (fraction under 8 stone). Alright for going up mountains, and that's pretty much it.

There were a few of them, 5 or so.

Anyone who cycles in Cambridge gets enough hassle for being a cyclist as it is (only yesterday a 50yr old female lecturer was apparantly harrased the whole way home by a taxi driver), and given that I was unlocking my bike, I figured I wouldn't!

If you were physically bigger or more physically assertive, would you have tried to stop them ?
I once broke a blokes nose at Chatham Station for calling a young girl a "paki C**t, get out my way". He couldn't understand why until I explained a few facts to him, his mates weren't too impressed either. I now regret hitting him, was quite a few years ago now but would do it again in similar circumstances, irrespective if the person being abused was any colour or creed or sexuality. Immediate justice works wonders for some peoples perspective.

markwalker

I use the word paki most days as in get down the pakis and pick some milk up, its used to describe a location i.e. the shop belonging to that delightful family that came from the country whos name we dare not mention to the north of India.

is this wrong too? i think the context makes it ok

teagar

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

I didn't stand up no.

I'm 5ft7 and weigh 52kgs (fraction under 8 stone). Alright for going up mountains, and that's pretty much it.

There were a few of them, 5 or so.

Anyone who cycles in Cambridge gets enough hassle for being a cyclist as it is (only yesterday a 50yr old female lecturer was apparantly harrased the whole way home by a taxi driver), and given that I was unlocking my bike, I figured I wouldn't!

If you were physically bigger or more physically assertive, would you have tried to stop them ?
I once broke a blokes nose at Chatham Station for calling a young girl a "paki C**t, get out my way". He couldn't understand why until I explained a few facts to him, his mates weren't too impressed either. I now regret hitting him, was quite a few years ago now but would do it again in similar circumstances, irrespective if the person being abused was any colour or creed or sexuality. Immediate justice works wonders for some peoples perspective.

It's hard to say. As you can imagine, I was beaten up A LOT at school, and, through practice more than anything else, can largely hold my own in a fight, mainly because I can take an awful lot, and they usually feel they've done enough damage rather than me smashing them. I can claim breaking a kick-boxers nose, but that was after a year of hassle.

As I've got older I've shyd away from conflict more generally. I've got myself into tricky situations on my bike which, though I was usually originally in the right, have escalated becasue I felt the need to stand up - usually ending up with me being knocked off, or things thrown at me.

Now my rides are generally much more relaxed, largely because I now try and avoid the conflict (I find it still takes a lot of mental effort to be a push over though).

I'd imagine the forces gives you the physical confidence to literally stand up tall and give your piece.


I just vowed to remember their faces and never get in one of their cabs.

Edit: The more I think about it the more I think I'd just largely try and avoid a fight, as much because of the repercussions as anything else!

Garry H

markwalker wrote:

I use the word paki most days as in get down the pakis and pick some milk up, its used to describe a location i.e. the shop belonging to that delightful family that came from the country whos name we dare not mention to the north of India.

is this wrong too? i think the context makes it ok

It's not just the intention that makes it racist, it's how it's perceived by others. ie Would Pakistanis themselves find it racist.

teagar

markwalker wrote:

I use the word paki most days as in get down the pakis and pick some milk up, its used to describe a location i.e. the shop belonging to that delightful family that came from the country whos name we dare not mention to the north of India.

is this wrong too? i think the context makes it ok

It's not right because you're omitting that, in the 21st century context, that word is well known to be derrogatory. You know it to be that - you've pointed that out yourself earlier.

So why are you knowingly calling them the derogatory name, when you could just say "Pakistani", which is a perfectly acceptable word to use?

markwalker

teagar wrote:

markwalker wrote:

I use the word paki most days as in get down the pakis and pick some milk up, its used to describe a location i.e. the shop belonging to that delightful family that came from the country whos name we dare not mention to the north of India.

is this wrong too? i think the context makes it ok

It's not right because you're omitting that, in the 21st century context, that word is well known to be derrogatory. You know it to be that - you've pointed that out yourself earlier.

So why are you knowingly calling them the derogatory name, when you could just say "Pakistani", which is a perfectly acceptable word to use?

Because its the Paki shop not the pakistani shop.

it might be owned by a pakistani but the shop itself is the paki shop

Ands

Garry H wrote:

It's not the intention that makes it racist, it's how it's perceived by others. ie Would Pakistanis themselves find it racist.

Interesting point. The word 'Paki' is not derogatory in Australia - it always sounded strange watching the Aussie news and hearing about how the 'Pakis' were doing at cricket.

passout

Why not 'shop' or 'corner shop'. Anyway Mark W. - it's your own house, say what you like!

teagar

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

markwalker wrote:

I use the word paki most days as in get down the pakis and pick some milk up, its used to describe a location i.e. the shop belonging to that delightful family that came from the country whos name we dare not mention to the north of India.

is this wrong too? i think the context makes it ok

It's not right because you're omitting that, in the 21st century context, that word is well known to be derrogatory. You know it to be that - you've pointed that out yourself earlier.

So why are you knowingly calling them the derogatory name, when you could just say "Pakistani", which is a perfectly acceptable word to use?

Because its the Paki shop not the pakistani shop.

it might be owned by a pakistani but the shop itself is the paki shop

cee

dmclite wrote:

cee wrote:

markwalker

do you happen to know the figures? a link would be useful to give your refute some foundation. Maybe you would be surprised.

dmclite
You brought it up, i commented on your comment

I fail to see the connection with the subject being discussed. I fail to understand if English is someones native language how this has any bearing on foreign nationals working who cannot speak English to a degree where instruction and direction could be understood, hence some taxi drivers putting up "English spoken" signs, the cause of the debate.

because this debate is not and can not be contained to the use of english.

It is about identifiying and isolating a group of individuals over another.

My point was a rebutal to a point you made....and therefor perfectly suited to this debate. if one cannot rebut a line of analysis, then there is no debate.

I wonder how many of the taxi drivers round your way (all asian by the way?? really...not one from anywhere else) would have such a sign?

I also suspect that many of the people who are alleged to not speak english, actually speak perfectly good english.....I would suspect most people know someone who has a story about a taxi driver not being able to understand their direction, but I wonder how many of these stores are in reality first hand.

Thats how incipid the whole thing is. It plays on current disenfranchisement of the british public at a time when in my opinion energy would be better directed.

Anonymous

teagar wrote:

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

I didn't stand up no.

I'm 5ft7 and weigh 52kgs (fraction under 8 stone). Alright for going up mountains, and that's pretty much it.

There were a few of them, 5 or so.

Anyone who cycles in Cambridge gets enough hassle for being a cyclist as it is (only yesterday a 50yr old female lecturer was apparantly harrased the whole way home by a taxi driver), and given that I was unlocking my bike, I figured I wouldn't!

If you were physically bigger or more physically assertive, would you have tried to stop them ?
I once broke a blokes nose at Chatham Station for calling a young girl a "paki C**t, get out my way". He couldn't understand why until I explained a few facts to him, his mates weren't too impressed either. I now regret hitting him, was quite a few years ago now but would do it again in similar circumstances, irrespective if the person being abused was any colour or creed or sexuality. Immediate justice works wonders for some peoples perspective.

It's hard to say. As you can imagine, I was beaten up A LOT at school, and, through practice more than anything else, can largely hold my own in a fight, mainly because I can take an awful lot, and they usually feel they've done enough damage rather than me smashing them. I can claim breaking a kick-boxers nose, but that was after a year of hassle.

As I've got older I've shyd away from conflict more generally. I've got myself into tricky situations on my bike which, though I was usually originally in the right, have escalated becasue I felt the need to stand up - usually ending up with me being knocked off, or things thrown at me.

Now my rides are generally much more relaxed, largely because I now try and avoid the conflict (I find it still takes a lot of mental effort to be a push over though).

I'd imagine the forces gives you the physical confidence to literally stand up tall and give your piece.


I just vowed to remember their faces and never get in one of their cabs.

I got bullied badly all through school. I left home at 16, joined up and started a clean slate, vowed I'd never take all that agian. my bullying was secterian in the beginning as I am from the West coast of Scotland, my Dad is Catholic but I went to a Protestant school and it all went pear shaped. Takes a while to be confident and stand up, once you do though, you never look back.

teagar

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

I didn't stand up no.

I'm 5ft7 and weigh 52kgs (fraction under 8 stone). Alright for going up mountains, and that's pretty much it.

There were a few of them, 5 or so.

Anyone who cycles in Cambridge gets enough hassle for being a cyclist as it is (only yesterday a 50yr old female lecturer was apparantly harrased the whole way home by a taxi driver), and given that I was unlocking my bike, I figured I wouldn't!

If you were physically bigger or more physically assertive, would you have tried to stop them ?
I once broke a blokes nose at Chatham Station for calling a young girl a "paki C**t, get out my way". He couldn't understand why until I explained a few facts to him, his mates weren't too impressed either. I now regret hitting him, was quite a few years ago now but would do it again in similar circumstances, irrespective if the person being abused was any colour or creed or sexuality. Immediate justice works wonders for some peoples perspective.

It's hard to say. As you can imagine, I was beaten up A LOT at school, and, through practice more than anything else, can largely hold my own in a fight, mainly because I can take an awful lot, and they usually feel they've done enough damage rather than me smashing them. I can claim breaking a kick-boxers nose, but that was after a year of hassle.

As I've got older I've shyd away from conflict more generally. I've got myself into tricky situations on my bike which, though I was usually originally in the right, have escalated becasue I felt the need to stand up - usually ending up with me being knocked off, or things thrown at me.

Now my rides are generally much more relaxed, largely because I now try and avoid the conflict (I find it still takes a lot of mental effort to be a push over though).

I'd imagine the forces gives you the physical confidence to literally stand up tall and give your piece.


I just vowed to remember their faces and never get in one of their cabs.

I got bullied badly all through school. I left home at 16, joined up and started a clean slate, vowed I'd never take all that agian. my bullying was secterian in the beginning as I am from the West coast of Scotland, my Dad is Catholic but I went to a Protestant school and it all went pear shaped. Takes a while to be confident and stand up, once you do though, you never look back.

In all honesty confidence wasn't the issue - at least, - percieved confidence wan't the issue. There was a little pathway which saved me about 2 minutes walking, and i'd get ambushed there every day. Never stopped me walking that way, even though the fights probably lasted plenty more time.

It's more that since I'm older, the consequences are plenty worse, and my life is better for not having violence in my life.

Secterian bullying? Northern Ireland must have had more resonance with you than for some.

markwalker

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

I didn't stand up no.

I'm 5ft7 and weigh 52kgs (fraction under 8 stone). Alright for going up mountains, and that's pretty much it.

There were a few of them, 5 or so.

Anyone who cycles in Cambridge gets enough hassle for being a cyclist as it is (only yesterday a 50yr old female lecturer was apparantly harrased the whole way home by a taxi driver), and given that I was unlocking my bike, I figured I wouldn't!

If you were physically bigger or more physically assertive, would you have tried to stop them ?
I once broke a blokes nose at Chatham Station for calling a young girl a "paki C**t, get out my way". He couldn't understand why until I explained a few facts to him, his mates weren't too impressed either. I now regret hitting him, was quite a few years ago now but would do it again in similar circumstances, irrespective if the person being abused was any colour or creed or sexuality. Immediate justice works wonders for some peoples perspective.

It's hard to say. As you can imagine, I was beaten up A LOT at school, and, through practice more than anything else, can largely hold my own in a fight, mainly because I can take an awful lot, and they usually feel they've done enough damage rather than me smashing them. I can claim breaking a kick-boxers nose, but that was after a year of hassle.

As I've got older I've shyd away from conflict more generally. I've got myself into tricky situations on my bike which, though I was usually originally in the right, have escalated becasue I felt the need to stand up - usually ending up with me being knocked off, or things thrown at me.

Now my rides are generally much more relaxed, largely because I now try and avoid the conflict (I find it still takes a lot of mental effort to be a push over though).

I'd imagine the forces gives you the physical confidence to literally stand up tall and give your piece.


I just vowed to remember their faces and never get in one of their cabs.

I got bullied badly all through school. I left home at 16, joined up and started a clean slate, vowed I'd never take all that agian. my bullying was secterian in the beginning as I am from the West coast of Scotland, my Dad is Catholic but I went to a Protestant school and it all went pear shaped. Takes a while to be confident and stand up, once you do though, you never look back.

And you joined the British Army becasue you didnt like the Protestants at school!!!

Doh

-spider-

markwalker wrote:

And you joined the British Army becasue you didnt like the Protestants at school!!!

Doh

What is the point you are trying to make, Mark?

Anonymous

markwalker wrote:

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

dmclite wrote:

teagar wrote:

I didn't stand up no.

I'm 5ft7 and weigh 52kgs (fraction under 8 stone). Alright for going up mountains, and that's pretty much it.

There were a few of them, 5 or so.

Anyone who cycles in Cambridge gets enough hassle for being a cyclist as it is (only yesterday a 50yr old female lecturer was apparantly harrased the whole way home by a taxi driver), and given that I was unlocking my bike, I figured I wouldn't!

If you were physically bigger or more physically assertive, would you have tried to stop them ?
I once broke a blokes nose at Chatham Station for calling a young girl a "paki C**t, get out my way". He couldn't understand why until I explained a few facts to him, his mates weren't too impressed either. I now regret hitting him, was quite a few years ago now but would do it again in similar circumstances, irrespective if the person being abused was any colour or creed or sexuality. Immediate justice works wonders for some peoples perspective.

It's hard to say. As you can imagine, I was beaten up A LOT at school, and, through practice more than anything else, can largely hold my own in a fight, mainly because I can take an awful lot, and they usually feel they've done enough damage rather than me smashing them. I can claim breaking a kick-boxers nose, but that was after a year of hassle.

As I've got older I've shyd away from conflict more generally. I've got myself into tricky situations on my bike which, though I was usually originally in the right, have escalated becasue I felt the need to stand up - usually ending up with me being knocked off, or things thrown at me.

Now my rides are generally much more relaxed, largely because I now try and avoid the conflict (I find it still takes a lot of mental effort to be a push over though).

I'd imagine the forces gives you the physical confidence to literally stand up tall and give your piece.


I just vowed to remember their faces and never get in one of their cabs.

I got bullied badly all through school. I left home at 16, joined up and started a clean slate, vowed I'd never take all that agian. my bullying was secterian in the beginning as I am from the West coast of Scotland, my Dad is Catholic but I went to a Protestant school and it all went pear shaped. Takes a while to be confident and stand up, once you do though, you never look back.

And you joined the British Army becasue you didnt like the Protestants at school!!!

Doh

Nah, cos I didn't want to end up being a jakey, buckfast drinking tw@t, who hates everything and has cholesterol problems. I hate where I came from.

markwalker

-spider- wrote:

markwalker wrote:

And you joined the British Army becasue you didnt like the Protestants at school!!!

Doh

What is the point you are trying to make, Mark?

The "light hearted point" i was making to another former soldier was that at the time when were in, the British Army or large parts of it were Protestant. ok? what is the point you were trying to make?

markwalker

-spider- wrote:

markwalker wrote:

And you joined the British Army becasue you didnt like the Protestants at school!!!

Doh

What is the point you are trying to make, Mark?

The "light hearted point" i was making to another former soldier was that at the time when were in, the British Army or large parts of it were Protestant. ok? what is the point you were trying to make?

EKIMIKE

Just wanting to put these out to moot. I don't really have an opinion on them. As you know I think it's an issue of failure by the regulating authority, and not racist. But maybe someone would want to comment on these:

In your opinion, are the people who complained about the foreign/non-english speaking taxi drivers racist?

If the taxi drivers with the stickers were racists, why didn't they have these stickers before/why wasn't there a documented issue of tension between the foreign and English speaking drivers?

Please note I don't think these are in any way credible arguments.

Garry H

That would surely depend on the nature of the complaint?

I think it's possibly meandering across the line of racism, at the very least taking advantage of current affairs relating to immigration to the UK.

I think the real issue though is that of local authority procedures on granting licenses.

markwalker

I dont think complaining about non english speaking taxi drivers is racist especially if the reason for complaint is lack of English made it difficult to get the driver to go where you wanted. this is England and there is one official language its not unreasonable to be able to give instructions in English


Are the taxi drivers racist for displaying stickers. In itself no.

Anonymous

Religion took such a backseat when I was a soldier. Booze and women suddenly became the point of focus,

-spider-

markwalker wrote:

-spider- wrote:

markwalker wrote:

And you joined the British Army becasue you didnt like the Protestants at school!!!

Doh

What is the point you are trying to make, Mark?

The "light hearted point" i was making to another former soldier was that at the time when were in, the British Army or large parts of it were Protestant. ok? what is the point you were trying to make?

Sorry, Mark, but it didn't appear to be that light hearted to me.

So you lightheartedly suggest that because his dad was a Catholic, that he shouldn't have joined the British Army (at that time)? If that is indeed what you are suggesting it is not "ok".

I wasn't trying to make a point. I was trying to get clarification on your thought process that led you to the above belief.

So because there were a lot of Protestants in the British Army a Catholic should not have joined (at that time)?

-spider-

teagar wrote:

Secterian bullying? Northern Ireland must have had more resonance with you than for some.

You'd be surprised that the resonance that sectarianism has in the West of Scotland. It is a fact of life there - across all social clasees.

markwalker

-spider- wrote:

markwalker wrote:

-spider- wrote:

markwalker wrote:

And you joined the British Army becasue you didnt like the Protestants at school!!!

Doh

What is the point you are trying to make, Mark?

The "light hearted point" i was making to another former soldier was that at the time when were in, the British Army or large parts of it were Protestant. ok? what is the point you were trying to make?

Sorry, Mark, but it didn't appear to be that light hearted to me.

So you lightheartedly suggest that because his dad was a Catholic, that he shouldn't have joined the British Army (at that time)? If that is indeed what you are suggesting it is not "ok".

I wasn't trying to make a point. I was trying to get clarification on your thought process that led you to the above belief.

So because there were a lot of Protestants in the British Army a Catholic should not have joined (at that time)?

dont be so sensitiive, it was an observation with nothing implied or suggested.

teagar

-spider- wrote:

teagar wrote:

Secterian bullying? Northern Ireland must have had more resonance with you than for some.

You'd be surprised that the resonance that sectarianism has in the West of Scotland. It is a fact of life there - across all social clasees.

I don't dispute that - Dmc's mentioned being part of the forces in Northern Ireland in the past. Was a comment in that direction!

Anonymous

Hey, markwalker was just taking the pi55 about the soldier stuff, lay off.

markwalker

dmclite wrote:

Hey, markwalker was just taking the pi55 about the soldier stuff, lay off.

Thank you, i was taking the piss no offence meant to anyone (or any organisation)