worst rip-off prices

Wallace1492

Depends on what you are looking for.

I bought a £100 (reduced from £160) Castelli jacket. It feels superb, looks great and as far as I am concerned performs very well. It is very well made with great attention to detail.

However I would never wear it on the daily commute, and save it for touring. I wear a £30 Endura jacket for the daily grind.
Much like you would wear a cheap suit for work while saving the good one for wedding's and other special occassions.

As long as the more expensive product either looks better, performs better, is made better or makes you feel better then it can be classed as being value for money.

How much value for money is an individual choice and at the end of the day, you don't need to buy it.

Some are gadget/fashion victims, some arent. Very personal choice.

cee

Clever Pun wrote:

Cee... yes rapha in my experience are very good at what they do

I've got shorts from pearl izumi, dhb, high end campag and rapha the rapha ones are the best by miles, the padding being so much more comfy. I tried assos on but the shape of them didn't make me feel comfy
same goes for the 3/4's and full lengths excellent technical cycling wear (lycra isn't fashion)

the classic softshell is a superb bit of kit riding much higher than the gore one I had previously

see...thats useful product review....you tried them and they were more comfortable....

I have no issue with that....it would certainley be higher in my list of priorities than a brand...

I don't mind spending the £££ on things which I think are worth it...I just refuse to pay it for nothing more than branding.

I have a Protective Kashi Softshell....now retails at £140 (I got mine in Germany for less than half of that)...

But 3 years later and it is still the best waterproof soft shell that I have ever tried...

Same with my Westbeach snowboarding jacket...was £250....but ten years later and it is still going strong...

On the other hand...my ronhills have served me perfectly well under baggies for commuting and off-road use....they were pretty much the cheapest thing going....

To me that is real value....but like wallace says....its me that perceives the value and others might not agree.....

amnezia

cuthbertrogergaylord wrote:

Campag chain tool - offensively expensive for what it is.

+1

£150 for a chain tool is mental.

always_tyred

I can't believe we've gone through all of this and accidentally compared dhb to high end Campag and Rapha.

DonDaddyD

Always Tyred and Clever Pun

You are both right.

Some items are just the same item with a different badge. Seat Ibiza, Skoda Fabia and VW Polo spring to mind - all the same engine, all the same buttons and displays on the inside, subtle style tweaks (less so now) on the outside. But they are/were essentially the same car (back in 2000) with often grands or hundreds difference in price. Which is AT's point.

There are however varibles you are not considering.

Affordability - I am not willing to pay £100 on a pair of tights, jeans or trainers (cycle shoes being the exception)

Value - while I don't see the value in £100 pair of cycling tights I'll happily spend £100 a month on comics as I see the value in it (for some reason that I don't fully understand). -

Quality - There is on occasion a difference in quality between the brands. Example: My SPEG (CCUK) jacket cost £20. My Pearl Izumi jacket cost £50 the difference is alarming. Which I'll point out is Clever Pun's point.

Law of diminishing returns: While my Pearl Izumi jacket cost £30 more than the SPEG I don't get that much increase in quality when I spent £30 more on another jacket.

---

Taking your two points, Clever Pun and Always Tyred. Yes there are times when there is absolutely no difference in the product except for the label. Other times there is a difference and that often relates to quality.

Sewinman

The Garmin is a rip off, but when it works* it is absolutly great. Tom Tom probably don't bother with it because there is not much money in it...hence the high Garmin price - captive market, low volumes.

* I have yet to use the naviagtion without it going mental at some point and having to stop, reset it etc etc.

always_tyred

Sewinman wrote:

The Garmin is a rip off, but when it works* it is absolutly great. Tom Tom probably don't bother with it because there is not much money in it...hence the high Garmin price - captive market, low volumes.

* I have yet to use the naviagtion without it going mental at some point and having to stop, reset it etc etc.

Interesting. I've been having to physcially restrain myself from getting that new, smaller one. Okay, not the same navigation tools, but I wonder if its also infuriating from the GPS point of view.

Or is it just GPS? I have GPS on my phone but I have stopped bothering to use it on rides because my back pocket appears to be too "overcast" and I find that I'm still at home in the middle of a ride.

tri-sexual

all bleed kits
especially the avid ones with a rrp of £39.99
what a joke:for a couple of plastic syringes, a plastic tube, a few plastic clamps,a couple of attachments and a small bottle of fluid

Sewinman

Always Tyred wrote:

Sewinman wrote:

The Garmin is a rip off, but when it works* it is absolutly great. Tom Tom probably don't bother with it because there is not much money in it...hence the high Garmin price - captive market, low volumes.

* I have yet to use the naviagtion without it going mental at some point and having to stop, reset it etc etc.

Interesting. I've been having to physcially restrain myself from getting that new, smaller one. Okay, not the same navigation tools, but I wonder if its also infuriating from the GPS point of view.

Or is it just GPS? I have GPS on my phone but I have stopped bothering to use it on rides because my back pocket appears to be too "overcast" and I find that I'm still at home in the middle of a ride.

The GPS works fine, its the routing I have problems with. Mostly its due to the Garmin thinking you have not gone through one of the points on your course, it will then want you to go back and pass through it before it will continue. Sometimes it just freezes and when you re-route it wants to go back to the beginning of the course...blah blah, annoying stuff like that.

It is probably me, but I don't think the route planning is very 'sturdy'. I should spend hours working out why on the internet but I can;t be arsed...if i pay 350 for something i expect it to work.

Christophe3967

DonDaddyD wrote:

Always Tyred and Clever Pun

You are both right.

Polite is right. But I see your point.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Always Tyred and Clever Pun

You are both right.

Some items are just the same item with a different badge. Seat Ibiza, Skoda Fabia and VW Polo spring to mind - all the same engine, all the same buttons and displays on the inside, subtle style tweaks (less so now) on the outside. But they are/were essentially the same car (back in 2000) with often grands or hundreds difference in price. Which is AT's point.

There are however varibles you are not considering.

Affordability - I am not willing to pay £100 on a pair of tights, jeans or trainers (cycle shoes being the exception)

Value - while I don't see the value in £100 pair of cycling tights I'll happily spend £100 a month on comics as I see the value in it (for some reason that I don't fully understand). -

Quality - There is on occasion a difference in quality between the brands. Example: My SPEG (CCUK) jacket cost £20. My Pearl Izumi jacket cost £50 the difference is alarming. Which I'll point out is Clever Pun's point.

Law of diminishing returns: While my Pearl Izumi jacket cost £30 more than the SPEG I don't get that much increase in quality when I spent £30 more on another jacket.

---

Taking your two points, Clever Pun and Always Tyred. Yes there are times when there is absolutely no difference in the product except for the label. Other times there is a difference and that often relates to quality.

I'm on this forum too long.

I'm finding myself largely in agreement with your post.

I'm more than a little scared and confused.


Generally speaking more expensive stuff is more expensive because it is 'better', better raw materials, innovative design rather that copycat, more attention to detail in the manfacturing, more complex to produce, more stringent quality control.

It just isn't a case that a Rapha jacket is a Endura jacket with a Rapha label.

sampras38

I was in France last year for the Tour, and bought a bagel and coffee from Starbucks at Geneva airport. Guess how much....?








€16.00

That's a rip off..

;-)

always_tyred

Christophe3967 wrote:

Polite is right.

I'll be watching you closely from now on.

always_tyred

For god's sake - I chose Endura off the top of my head. Don't be so literal. I defy anyone to argue that Rapha is generally equal in function to the brands it is price pitching itself against. From the outset it has deliberately charges astronomical prices - its a known marketing strategy. Hoodwink the consumer into thinking that if its THAT much it must be good.

The point is not "Rapha is crap" because with a few exceptions, that is highly unlikely to be true. The point is that you are paying for the label, when compared to other high end brands, in my view. Unlike several other high end brands, however, they haven't earned the premium - they just pitched up and said, "Right, we are expensive. I DARE you to buy me." That distinguishes them from, for example, Campag, or Pinarello.

It would be like Ribble claiming that their frames were artisan welded and charging twice as much for them. I find it objectionable.

Its only my opinion, but its not necessary to respond by being such a, frankly, wan*** just because you are someone who has spent £150 on some of their bibtights.

DonDaddyD

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

Generally speaking more expensive stuff is more expensive because it is 'better', better raw materials, innovative design rather that copycat, more attention to detail in the manfacturing, more complex to produce, more stringent quality control.

It's not that I disagree with you. It is just that I don't always believe it to be the case.

More expensive stuff isn't always better because it is more expensive. More expensive stuff can be priced as such purely becuse the label demands a premium price point*. But that isn't always the case either. Sometimes the more expensive item is more expensive because it is better, but sometimes not and its just about brand.

*I know for a fact that my Primark Suit for £23 looks nicer, fits and feels better quality than my £150 Moss Bross or £120 Next Suit, which lasted half the time the Primark Suit did.

always_tyred

DDD, you have a £23 suit?

DO NOT go anywhere near any naked flames.

DonDaddyD

Always Tyred wrote:

DDD, you have a £23 suit?

DO NOT go anywhere near any naked flames.

Hang on, weren't you the one being picked up on his work attire?

You wanna take yourself down to Primark mate! They'll get you looking spiffy.

:P :P :P

Chunkers1980

Fork servicing.

Yes technical and easy to get wrong and not notice something... BUT

A TF Tuned sevice is £85, then you have to send it to them and get it back. So to get you forks serviced it costs about £120 !!!

The forks only cost me £226... Over half their cost for 1 service, now that's a joke.

Coriander

DonDaddyD wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

DDD, you have a £23 suit?

DO NOT go anywhere near any naked flames.

Hang on, weren't you the one being picked up on his work attire?

You wanna take yourself down to Primark mate! They'll get you looking spivvy.

:P :P :P

Fixed that for you. ;-)



And before I get flamed, it's just a joke.

Eau Rouge

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

Where are you walking to which requires satellite navigation technology to get you there?

Not to get me there, I want a GPS system that can tell me there I am on a map. I do find myself walking around towns and cities I don't at all know, or driving down contry lanes I've not driven before and when I venture further afield on the bike my knowledge of every single ribbon or tarmac and where it goes to runs out.
The lesser Garmin's won't plot my current location on a map for me to look at, only the 705 does that, but if it's not really much use at doing that in the car or on foot as well, I'd live without it on the bike and think about the cheaper 500.

cee

Eau Rouge wrote:

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

Where are you walking to which requires satellite navigation technology to get you there?

Not to get me there, I want a GPS system that can tell me there I am on a map. I do find myself walking around towns and cities I don't at all know, or driving down contry lanes I've not driven before and when I venture further afield on the bike my knowledge of every single ribbon or tarmac and where it goes to runs out.
The lesser Garmin's won't plot my current location on a map for me to look at, only the 705 does that, but if it's not really much use at doing that in the car or on foot as well, I'd live without it on the bike and think about the cheaper 500.

google maps on any smartphone with a gps can do this.

actually...i was quite surprised how accurate the cell tower signal strength triangulation location doohickey in google maps on a smart phone is...

cee

I object to the cost of derailleur hangers.....

£16 for a couple of pence worth of aluminum, and 30 seconds in a milling machine....

saw us all coming (well...except you singlespeeders, hub geared or axel mounted mech types)

amnezia

cee wrote:

I object to the cost of derailleur hangers.....

£16 for a couple of pence worth of aluminum, and 30 seconds in a milling machine....

saw us all coming (well...except you singlespeeders, hub geared or axel mounted mech types)

and how much does a milling machine cost?

Eau Rouge

cee wrote:

google maps on any smartphone with a gps can do this.

There are lots of ways to do it, but I don't own any device capable of doing it at the moment. There is also no device that will do everything I want (a smartphone that measures cadence?) I'm going to have to mix and match so I wondered how the 705 compares to the alternatives so I could see if having the GPS mapping on the bike computer is worth it or not.

_Brun_

Clever Pun wrote:

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

If you take a wool blend cycling jersey and stitch the word "Endura" on it, and you put it next to a similar jersey with the word "Rapha" on it and a tiny bit of pink stitching, are you saying that the 250% mark up for the latter ISN'T a rip off?

Do you really think that's what is happening?

As others have said I think a lot depends on your perception, I'm sure there are people on here would be horrified at paying £100 for a pair of cycling tights but would think nothing of paying £100 for a pair of jeans.

ETA I think I may be confusing two different threads

his perception is that Rapha and Endura are the same product (minus some pink detail) so by his logic yes he's right.

Whereas having used both I don't believe they're the same product, while rapha/assos etc are expensive I'm happy to pay that money

I could follow Always Tyred's argument thus: I'd happily wear boss or say diesel top but I'd never wear nike or fila to a pub... Which makes little sense as they're the same product just with a different bit of stitching after all.

Just think how much you've been ripped off for all that tattoo ink. It's not like it makes your skin function any better.

Sucker :P

the article don

Agreed re the Avid bleeding kits. I was casually persusing the Leisure lakes 2010 catalogue last night on the toilet and the £39.99 price tag nearly made me fall off!!

At certain times I've seen a full F & R set of Avid Juicy 3s including rotors for £70 at places like Merlin. Why would you bother bleeding?

jonginge

Eau Rouge wrote:

cee wrote:

google maps on any smartphone with a gps can do this.

There are lots of ways to do it, but I don't own any device capable of doing it at the moment. There is also no device that will do everything I want (a smartphone that measures cadence?) I'm going to have to mix and match so I wondered how the 705 compares to the alternatives so I could see if having the GPS mapping on the bike computer is worth it or not.

For 95+% of the time you wont need the mapping. It's very useful, however, for the edge cases (see what I did there). I, and a few others, missed a turn on HOTA and went a couple of miles off course following another event's arrows. One guy had an iPhone and I had a 705. He had google maps and I had turn by turn directions to the nearest village on the route instructions. Was all good, eventually

Smartphones can be made to serve but I'm pretty sure their weather-proofing isn't up to scratch. Anyone (ITB) care to comment on how good the bar mounts for the IPhone or Nokias are? The 705 is pretty rugged and, possibly, more likely to survive in a crash.

Edit: the 705 also has ANT+ built in so I've paired it up to my PowerTap

tri-sexual

profile design aero bottle for tri bars
£19.99 for a deformed bottle and a straw

cee

amnezia wrote:

cee wrote:

I object to the cost of derailleur hangers.....

£16 for a couple of pence worth of aluminum, and 30 seconds in a milling machine....

saw us all coming (well...except you singlespeeders, hub geared or axel mounted mech types)

and how much does a milling machine cost?

cheap ones? less than £300 quid...

http://grizzly.amazonwebstore.com/Grizz ... 0DCZ7E.htm

I suspect you are playing devils advocaat and lemonade, as cleary the cost of the machine has little to do with the cost of the mech hanger...as the fab will use the machine to make not only thousands of mech hangers, but also thousands of other products....

So is your question...how much does the time on the machine cost? pennies?

smegurmum

cee wrote:

amnezia wrote:

cee wrote:

I object to the cost of derailleur hangers.....

£16 for a couple of pence worth of aluminum, and 30 seconds in a milling machine....

saw us all coming (well...except you singlespeeders, hub geared or axel mounted mech types)

and how much does a milling machine cost?

cheap ones? less than £300 quid...

http://grizzly.amazonwebstore.com/Grizz ... 0DCZ7E.htm

I suspect you are playing devils advocaat and lemonade, as cleary the cost of the machine has little to do with the cost of the mech hanger...as the fab will use the machine to make not only thousands of mech hangers, but also thousands of other products....

So is your question...how much does the time on the machine cost? pennies?

it's still a darn sight cheaper than a new frame