Pulling strain

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Comments

  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    Look, you're right in that if you have the legs then tactics are easy.

    Lots of people praised Armstrong's tactics, given that he always rinsed everyone for 7years straight, but to be honest, his tactics were simple and worked because he was easily the fastest over 3 weeks.

    It's stuff like this years finish into Paris Tours. Boonen and the 3rd rider ( can't remember his name) were both better sprinters that Gilbert, and Boonen, probably rightly, stuck on the other guys wheel for the sprint, figuring Gilbert would go early and the other guy would give him the perfect tow. Yet Gilbert went REALLY early, and the 3rd guy didn't have the legs to do anything. By the time Boonen got round him, Gilbert was already away. Boonen was clearly the strongest there, given his strong finish. Gilbert got the tactics right, Boonen didn't.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Yeah Bozic slowed Boonen but what has that got to do with wheel sucking? Gilbert didn't wheelsuck when Boonen et al were in the great break then jump at then end...
    Contador is the Greatest
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    teagar wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    In general.... isolating the wheel sucker is easier on flattish run ins as the equivalence between riders is greater... in the hills if the guy sitting on (say hincapie) is strong its hard to work him over

    Doesn't that go some way to making his victory 'proper' as such?

    Given that he had to be really strong still?

    no because he got a free pass with the other strong guy OP... his only threat buried himself to make the break work.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    And an example of tactics and strength: Stage 8 Tour de France 2009. LLS pulls his weight then had textbook tactics in the last km to take the win.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    disgruntledgoat wrote:

    The nearest I got to seeing that on the tour this year was Armstrong sitting up with Wiggo on his back wheel the day he had his spat with Contador.

    armstrong played that quite well that day but the virtual track stand was a bit naff....

    wiggo (matt white?) should have bluffed LA and said ok you want my place on GC... "I'm going to sacrifice mine for Frank so you better ride"

    gottheteeshirt was right in pointing out wiggo showed his hand in the mountains to clearly... could have faked weakness by hanging on the back of the lead group to andorra,,,,,,, 20/20 hindsight
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Tour de France 2008 Stage 7. LLS in a break of elite riders, pulling weight then solos for an amazing win:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4N_t2o1HSQ
    Contador is the Greatest
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Sure we can like different riders. Gerrans has won three times by sucking the wheels dry and then jumping. At the Tour, at the Giro at the Vuelta. Not impressive.


    When he won Stage 15 of the Tour to Prato Nevoso in 2008 he let the other riders attack at the bottom of the climb (Martinez and Pate and i think Arietta ) and they gave it their best shot and they were unable to get away from him as he crawled his way back. He took the sprint at the line a brilliant bit of tactical riding highly impressive and to call it wheelsucking is just a nonsense really.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    in a 4 man break with one fat guy

    How did you let the fat guy be on your level : ) He must of had some strength to hold your wheels!

    I'm talking cat 2 and 3 road racing here... He was built like the honey monster. The remainder of the group was a guy who rides 21 minute 10s and a lad who road for a domestic pro team last year. I was in over my head!
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:


    And come on, Merckx, Hinault et al, sure they had tactical minds but at the end of the day the were athletically brutish and showed it.

    They were yes. But so was Jacky Durand and he didn't win very often. My point is that they were able to assess the likelihood of an attack succeeding based on the situation and use their strength to make it stick. See also Museeuw's final PR win. The measure of this tactical knowledge and sense of timing is 1)Ever hear of a Merckx attack from range getting closed down and him not winning? and 2) His winning ratio of 27% of the races he entered professionally and 35% between 1968 and 1975

    When was the last time you saw a major rider take a race by the scruff of the neck and solo it from 40km+? Gilbert in Het Volk I would say.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:


    And come on, Merckx, Hinault et al, sure they had tactical minds but at the end of the day the were athletically brutish and showed it.

    They were yes. But so was Jacky Durand and he didn't win very often. My point is that they were able to assess the likelihood of an attack succeeding based on the situation and use their strength to make it stick. See also Museeuw's final PR win. The measure of this tactical knowledge and sense of timing is 1)Ever hear of a Merckx attack from range getting closed down and him not winning? and 2) His winning ratio of 27% of the races he entered professionally and 35% between 1968 and 1975

    When was the last time you saw a major rider take a race by the scruff of the neck and solo it from 40km+? Gilbert in Het Volk I would say.

    ok not so far out IIRC?

    but

    you could argue PR 2009 thou Thor seized the first of those moments but failed to make it stick and boonen upped the ante... Boonen really played his cards at the right moment there and went for broke.

    everyman for himself...

    as for the crashing? that was a symptom of everyone going into the red
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    mididoctors wrote:

    you could argue PR 2009 thou Thor seized the first of those moments but failed to make it stick and boonen upped the ante... Boonen really played his cards at the right moment there and went for broke.

    everyman for himself...

    as for the crashing? that was a symptom of everyone going into the red

    Or just Flecha being a numpty.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    teagar wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:

    you could argue PR 2009 thou Thor seized the first of those moments but failed to make it stick and boonen upped the ante... Boonen really played his cards at the right moment there and went for broke.

    everyman for himself...

    as for the crashing? that was a symptom of everyone going into the red

    Or just Flecha being a numpty.

    perhaps was thinking more of Thor.... but even in Flecha's case Boonen understood you needed to be right at the front when the race ignites.... when the hammer really goes down in that race people just lose it..
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    mididoctors wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    as for the crashing? that was a symptom of everyone going into the red

    Or just Flecha being a numpty.

    perhaps was thinking more of Thor.... but even in Flecha's case Boonen understood you needed to be right at the front when the race ignites.... when the hammer really goes down in that race people just lose it..

    As a Boonen fan I'm hardly going to disagree. However, eventually, in a group of six, only one guy can be at the front.

    Thor was actually at the front, but, while we were watching Flecha make mince meat of Lotto, Boonen managed to pass Hushovd just before Hushovd fell off - with hindsight, a race saving tactical manourvre.

    Still though. Trying to overtake a good 4 riders on the inside of a corner on some of the worst cobbles in Paris Roubaix is hardly smart riding, tired or not.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • Grimone
    Grimone Posts: 95
    Seem to recall Barredo getting a bit of aggro about this sort of thing at the tour of california last year.
    Don't rake up my mistakes, i know exactly what they are.

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