TSS

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Comments

  • Jeff Jones
    Jeff Jones Posts: 1,865
    What's most important is that you're improving on a consistent basis, otherwise the numbers are meaningless.
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • reppohkcor
    reppohkcor Posts: 111
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    edited January 2010
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 36)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?
  • reppohkcor
    reppohkcor Posts: 111
    Pokerface wrote:
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 3,600)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?

    Perfect - Thanks - I'll probably get round to purchasing WKO+ sometime but for now excel will do ;)
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Pokerface wrote:
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 3,600)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?

    At school, you get extra marks if you simplify

    So I think you're short of a mark there.

    but then the bigger mistake and this really disappoints me.... you're missing something big.

    but then again if you both (you and rep') did your research and read the links provided you would have seen this thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-trai ... ation.html

    So that's a fail for both of you. :wink:
  • reppohkcor
    reppohkcor Posts: 111
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 3,600)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?

    At school, you get extra marks if you simplify

    So I think you're short of a mark there.

    but then the bigger mistake and this really disappoints me.... you're missing something big.

    but then again if you both (you and rep') did your research and read the links provided you would have seen this thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-trai ... ation.html

    So that's a fail for both of you. :wink:

    Im an undergraduate - I dunno about you but here at uni we're taught NOT to simplify ;):p

    Thanks for the link though!
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    But they do teach you to read. Even the physical education students learn to read. :lol:

    (emphasis on the :lol: there, I'm only playing with you)

    I just read all of that link I re-posted (thanks whoever posted it earlier) and there was a few things I was unaware of like not being allowed to add up portions of the ride to get a total.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    edited January 2010
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 3,600)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?

    At school, you get extra marks if you simplify

    So I think you're short of a mark there.

    but then the bigger mistake and this really disappoints me.... you're missing something big.

    but then again if you both (you and rep') did your research and read the links provided you would have seen this thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-trai ... ation.html

    So that's a fail for both of you. :wink:


    I didn't miss anything. I copied it out of the book exactly as it was written.

    But doing the math it seems you need to multiply the result by 100.
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Pokerface wrote:
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 3,600)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?

    At school, you get extra marks if you simplify

    So I think you're short of a mark there.

    but then the bigger mistake and this really disappoints me.... you're missing something big.

    but then again if you both (you and rep') did your research and read the links provided you would have seen this thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-trai ... ation.html

    So that's a fail for both of you. :wink:


    I didn't miss anything.

    I bet you 100 tss points you have. :lol:
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 3,600)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?

    At school, you get extra marks if you simplify

    So I think you're short of a mark there.

    but then the bigger mistake and this really disappoints me.... you're missing something big.

    but then again if you both (you and rep') did your research and read the links provided you would have seen this thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/power-trai ... ation.html

    So that's a fail for both of you. :wink:


    I didn't miss anything.

    I bet you 100 tss points you have. :lol:


    See my note above.
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Pokerface wrote:
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Does anyone have the formulas for TSS etc relative to power, time & FTP???

    TSS = (s x W x IF)/(FTP x 3,600)


    s = seconds
    W = normalized power in Watts
    IF = Intensity Factor


    Is that what you want?

    Just one point that perhaps need clarification is:

    s = duration in seconds if it isn't obvious
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    IF² x Time x 100

    Time is hours, so 90 minutes would be 1.5

    That's probably what's stated on that link, but that link doesn't work for me so I can't see.
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Bhima wrote:
    IF² x Time x 100

    Time is hours, so 90 minutes would be 1.5

    That's probably what's stated on that link, but that link doesn't work for me so I can't see.

    You are right and the link does work fine. Must be a problem at your end. There is a message about being unregistered at the top however if you scroll down the actual thread is there.
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    Nah, I just get "Unable to connect" with Firefox. IE just crashes! :shock:
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Bhima wrote:
    Nah, I just get "Unable to connect" with Firefox. IE just crashes! :shock:

    Just checked again. Definitely no problem with that link. Looks like you have a firewall/anti-virus/plug-in or something else - take your pick, problem.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    We've talked about. Now we have a thread for it. Group ride - first weekend in March for those interested:
    http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15873776#15873776


    We can all bring our powermeters and brag about our numbers. ;)
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    Pokerface wrote:
    I didn't miss anything. I copied it out of the book exactly as it was written.

    But doing the math it seems you need to multiply the result by 100.
    Correct, the "100 x" was an error of omission from the first edition of the book.

    easier formula to remember is what Bhima posted:

    TSS = IF^2 x duration (hours) x 100

    IF = Normalised Power / Functional Threshold Power
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • hopper1
    hopper1 Posts: 4,389
    Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    I didn't miss anything. I copied it out of the book exactly as it was written.

    But doing the math it seems you need to multiply the result by 100.
    Correct, the "100 x" was an error of omission from the first edition of the book.

    easier formula to remember is what Bhima posted:

    TSS = IF^2 x duration (hours) x 100

    IF = Normalised Power / Functional Threshold Power

    :shock: Fcuk me... Bhima simplified something :shock:
    Start with a budget, finish with a mortgage!
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    Team Banana Spokesman wrote:
    so back to the original topic: i take it that its not the tss per week thats more important. but instead its the tss increase week on week??
    TSS is just another way of quantifying training volume (instead of using hours or miles per week) – the massive advantage with it however is that it also incorporates training intensity, which obviously hours or miles on their own do not. 1 hour at endurance pace is clearly not the same as 1 hour at threshold in terms of physiological stress or training benefit.

    So a typical periodized training plan might look something like this:
    4276563738_8226150b4c_o.jpg

    - a 12-week “Base” building phase with increasing week-on-week TSS (probably a majority of Level 2-4 rides)
    - an 8-week “Build” phase mixing in more higher intensity work (L5/6)
    - a 4-week “Race” phase allowing a taper to reach your target event with high CTL (ie a big base of fitness) and a low level of fatigue so you are fresh
    - every 4th week is an easier week to allow recovery (although this may not be necessary if you are using a conservative CTL Ramp Rate)
    - a further two “re-build” and “race” phases to give 3 peaks of fitness in the season
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • Team Banana Spokesman
    Team Banana Spokesman Posts: 538
    err... can you use tss to estimate needed protein for recovery?? is there a relationship between them anywhere? if it is measuring stress then can you use that to workout how much you need to change your diet if you know how much nutrition you would need for 100tss/150tss/....

    not talking about kj. thats obvious from PM readings.

    what confuses me is: if you are fatigued and do 100tss then it would feel harder and more stressful but the measure of stress says its the same as if you were riding 'fresh'.
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Team Banana Spokesman wrote:
    err... can you use tss to estimate needed protein for recovery?? is there a relationship between them anywhere? if it is measuring stress then can you use that to workout how much you need to change your diet if you know how much nutrition you would need for 100tss/150tss/....

    not talking about kj. thats obvious from PM readings.

    what confuses me is: if you are fatigued and do 100tss then it would feel harder and more stressful but the measure of stress says its the same as if you were riding 'fresh'.

    That's why you don't consider anything in isolation. That is what the modelling of the PMC (Performance Management Chart) is all about. It's components are:

    TSS: Training Stress Score
    CTL: Chronic Training Load
    ATL: Acute Training Load
    TSB: Training Stress Balance

    As Bronzie said TSS isn't meant to be considered in isolation therefore to read too much into any single figure is to misunderstand its usefulness.

    Read the following article about the Performance Management Chart as it explains the relationship of the different terms above and if you understand that then this will all make a lot more sense.

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/ ... chart.aspx

    The PMC doesn't form part of the book "training and racing with a power meter" as it wasn't built at that time so for anyone expecting great insights into by buying the book then just wait for the next edition as that will likely have a significant focus on it. It does however discuss TSS, CTL & ATL however not in any great detail.

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