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Muguards... why are there none?

ValyValy Posts: 1,321
edited January 2010 in MTB general
This is one thing that I don’t quite get- why are there just about no mudguards supplied with bikes from the get go? I mean - especially in this country, where it rains every 10 minutes. Surely it's not because people enjoy getting a cold spray of dirty water in their faces whenever they ride in the rain?

I recall someone mentioning that they ~ "Love getting covered in mud" when they go MTBing, while I see how one could like that... I still don't quite understand the reason as to why more or less all the bikes on sale have no mudguards. In Russia all the bikes have them, not here though. Okay – it might add a few quid more onto the price or something... but I dono – should not it be considered a pretty compulsory thing on a bike?

So... whoever can make me understand, that would be cool.
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  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    A lot of people don't like them, so why make everyone pay for something they might not use? Even people like me that love mudguards have their own preferences, chances are I'd take off whatever came with the bike and fit a crud rear and shockboard front anyway.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    Northwind wrote:
    A lot of people don't like them, so why make everyone pay for something they might not use? Even people like me that love mudguards have their own preferences, chances are I'd take off whatever came with the bike and fit a crud rear and shockboard front anyway.

    I gues here some people are much more prone to "exploiting" the fact that bikes are pretty modular...

    Why would not someone like mudguards? Looks? :S
  • scale20scale20 Posts: 1,300
    I'd rather buy a bike with a basket on the front than one with mudguards.

    My ride today was a mission to get as caked as possible in the wet gloop that is thick mud, It's what ridings all about. I succeeded! :lol:
    Niner Air 9 Rigid
    Whyte 129S 29er.
  • jay12jay12 Posts: 6,306
    Valy wrote:
    Northwind wrote:
    A lot of people don't like them, so why make everyone pay for something they might not use? Even people like me that love mudguards have their own preferences, chances are I'd take off whatever came with the bike and fit a crud rear and shockboard front anyway.

    I gues here some people are much more prone to "exploiting" the fact that bikes are pretty modular...

    Why would not someone like mudguards? Looks? :S
    yeah some people are a bit silly and think mudguards look ugly. i don't mind them as they are helpful. also as northwind said people have their prefrnces so they would just throw them away and that would be a waste of money paying for mudguards and then having people throwing them away. also the vast majority of bikes are made abroad in countries like china, thailand etc. so manufactures wouldn't put in different things into bike boxes for each individuall country
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    scale20 wrote:
    I'd rather buy a bike with a basket on the front than one with mudguards.

    My ride today was a mission to get as caked as possible in the wet gloop that is thick mud, It's what ridings all about. I succeeded! :lol:
    Well, I would not go THAT far, but I see what you mean. :P
    jay12 wrote:
    Valy wrote:
    Northwind wrote:
    A lot of people don't like them, so why make everyone pay for something they might not use? Even people like me that love mudguards have their own preferences, chances are I'd take off whatever came with the bike and fit a crud rear and shockboard front anyway.

    I gues here some people are much more prone to "exploiting" the fact that bikes are pretty modular...

    Why would not someone like mudguards? Looks? :S
    yeah some people are a bit silly and think mudguards look ugly. i don't mind them as they are helpful. also as northwind said people have their prefrnces so they would just throw them away and that would be a waste of money paying for mudguards and then having people throwing them away. also the vast majority of bikes are made abroad in countries like china, thailand etc. so manufactures wouldn't put in different things into bike boxes for each individuall country

    Well, no - in general. I'm asking why are mudguards not considered a compulsory feature on a bike?
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Because some people don't like them, obviously. decent mudguards are in a minority on bikes as far as I've seen, even up here in the Hills of Bottomless Mud. Downtube cruds, sure, but even they're not all that common.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    Northwind wrote:
    Because some people don't like them, obviously. decent mudguards are in a minority on bikes as far as I've seen, even up here in the Hills of Bottomless Mud. Downtube cruds, sure, but even they're not all that common.

    Hmm... so the main reason so to say so far seems that "some people don't like them".

    Odd... as I said before - in Russia you seem the on pretty much every bike, from the begining. I just don't see how there came to be this wide perception about mudguards not being cool among people. :/
  • some people like them, some don't. I got a pair of crud guards chucked in for free with my bike. I use them, I still like to get muddy. I wouldn't go out and buy one for the front but the back i would certainly consider it.

    You would probably find most that would come standard would be the cheaper ones and so people would replace them for better ones. Why the extra expense, if people want them they will buy them, if they dont, they wont.
    MmmBop

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  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    north-sure wrote:
    some people like them, some don't. I got a pair of crud guards chucked in for free with my bike. I use them, I still like to get muddy. I wouldn't go out and buy one for the front but the back i would certainly consider it.

    You would probably find most that would come standard would be the cheaper ones and so people would replace them for better ones. Why the extra expense, if people want them they will buy them, if they dont, they wont.

    I see. Well as far as having cheap ones - I guess that would hugely depend on what kind of a bike you are looking at price-wise and such. One other thing I might be oevrlooking here is that this is the MTB section. There might be different preferences and such - but then again I have not seen many road/hybrid bikes with mudguards from the get go.

    Oh wells. I think I'm getting some for sure though - as that was the glasses you get don't need to do anywhere as much wor I assume. :p
  • mrwibblemrwibble Posts: 980
    Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra, commuter bike that i cannot get mudguards for.
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    mrwibble wrote:
    Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra, commuter bike that i cannot get mudguards for.

    The point being? :oops:
  • MeddlEMeddlE Posts: 322
    I use mudguards, crudcatcher front and rear, my mate doesn't. Only one of us looked like they had a case of explosive diarrhoea while out on our ride today.
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    MeddlE wrote:
    I use mudguards, crudcatcher front and rear, my mate doesn't. Only one of us looked like they had a case of explosive diarrhoea while out on our ride today.

    th_wonder-1.gif

    Ya... :P
  • stomithstomith Posts: 332
    I think there is something else happening too with mudflaps in that there used to be a lot more cars on the road that had mudflaps. I think in both cases (cars & bikes) they stop some of the crud flying into the face of the person behind.

    Those days are sadly long gone.

    There is so much competition in the marketplace that they had to become an 'optional extra'....and we're all too tight (or vain) to bother.

    Of course, the bike doesn't look as good as 'without'...but I am off to Wales tomorrow (to get muddy) and have mudflaps (mudguards) installed. Look like a bit of a nob...but hey...the things I do for you lot! :)
  • _Ferret__Ferret_ Posts: 660
    consider mudgurards as an optional extra.

    Bikes are sold worldwide and many areas don't require them. It doesn't make sense to supply something that people don't need.

    You could argue that people in England require them but there is a large quantity of people who would disagree. Basically you don't "need" them to go biking, it's an add on.

    When I got my old bikes many moons ago, they came supplied with mudguards - they were the first thing to be removed!

    A better question is: Why don't some bikes come supplied with pedals!?
    Not really active
  • Pedals is easier, especially for road bikes. There are several different systems and none is dominant, so the chance is that the buyer will take off whatever the bike ships with and swap it, leaving the shop with a set of slightly used Shimanos or Looks or Times or whatever, which is annoying for everyone.

    As for Valy's question, which amounts to "Why aren't mudguards fashionable in the UK?" you might as well ask Why were pet rocks, mood rings and Hypercolour t-shirts fashionable. Fashion's just one of those things.

    However, one problem with full-length mudguards on mountain bikes is that in some circumstances they are self-defeating. If your local soils are the right consistency, they will clog up mudguards in nothing flat, and frames don't have enough clearance for a full-length mudguard and an inch of crud. That's why Pete Tomkins came up with the Crud Catcher (inspired by Brant Richards zip-tying a bit of plastic to his down tube).
    John Stevenson
  • ValyValy Posts: 1,321
    stomith - yeah, the price I guess, but still- in Russia as I said before they come on more or less all bikes. Just maybe what people are used I suppose...

    _Ferret_ - Well, in England at least saying that muguards are not needed a pretty wierd thing to say. Unles there is some mindset that getting a spray of water on your face... I dono - is good for you. :? :lol:

    John Stevenson - if you get so much mud that it starts to cog up the wheel then that's afarily extreme situation, but in most cases keeping the water/mud/dirt out of your face/back is a pretty usefull thing.

    Well - as far as I'm concerened there have been no definitive answeres as to why there aren't mufguards on bikes in the UK/a lot of other places, but at least I got some suggestions and such. Meh, I'll be gettign soem fo' sho' me thinks. :P
  • mrwibblemrwibble Posts: 980
    Valy wrote:
    mrwibble wrote:
    Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra, commuter bike that i cannot get mudguards for.

    The point being? :oops:

    The point being, it rains when I commute and manufactures seem to forget this.

    PS have you finished being clever now?
  • Customer visits shop:

    I'd like to buy that bike please, but, I already have my own mudguards, can you remove them please?

    Yes, no problem

    As I don't need the mudguards, could you reduce the price of the bike accordingly....oh, and while we're at it, I don't need the lights, rack or stand either and further reduce the price to compensate? Oh, and if I bring my own mudguards, rack and light and stand in, could you fit those for free too?

    The above scenario is a nightmare for shops.

    It's always better to start with a blank canvas and add extras to the bike you want. You get to choose the parts you want, rather than be lumbered with often sub-standard OEM racks/mudguards etc, which can also be a nightmare to get spares for. Customise for your individual requirements.

    And mudguards, ALL mudguards, are pig ugly! (and I've yet to see a cyclist with mudguards who is clean and dry!!??!!)
  • bolbol Posts: 138
    If you're trying to make a bike look cool, the last thing you'd do is put mudguards on it. People who sell mountain bikes know that their target audience care quite a lot about what their bike looks like so won't respond well to them. There is also an element of snobbery about it, as people who use cheap mountain bikes Or BSOs to commute tend to put mudguards on (sensibly in my opinion); not having mudguards shows that you're riding your bike out of choice rather than necessity.

    Speaking personally, at this time of year I always tend to have a crudcatcher on the from and a qr mudguard on the back. I don't think it looks pretty, but I'm allowed back in the house without having to get naked on the doorstep.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    theblender wrote:
    And mudguards, ALL mudguards, are pig ugly! (and I've yet to see a cyclist with mudguards who is clean and dry!!??!!)

    You wouldn't. But we're always cleaner and dryer (or, if not, it's taken us longer to get as wet and manky)
    Uncompromising extremist
  • ugly ugly ugly
    no point charging for somthing people dont want
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  • dave_hilldave_hill Posts: 3,877
    Mudguards are GAY. :evil:
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  • GHillGHill Posts: 2,402
    Valy wrote:
    John Stevenson - if you get so much mud that it starts to cog up the wheel then that's afarily extreme situation,

    It's not. The full length metal 'guards on my commuter used to get pretty clogged on the winter roads. I couldn't imagine trying to use those offroad in real mud.

    But yes, it's fashion and that no guards are truly effective (they don't stop it all).
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Sure, full guards, but that's just because they're not really suitable for mountain bikes. But clogging with a mtb guard is only going to happen if you fit it wrong.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • GHillGHill Posts: 2,402
    Northwind wrote:
    Sure, full guards, but that's just because they're not really suitable for mountain bikes. But clogging with a mtb guard is only going to happen if you fit it wrong.

    John was referring to full guards I believe.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Yes he was, I'm just pointing out that the drawbacks of full mudguards aren't really relevant here since they make no sense for a mtb.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Valy wrote:

    John Stevenson - if you get so much mud that it starts to cog up the wheel then that's afarily extreme situation, but in most cases keeping the water/mud/dirt out of your face/back is a pretty usefull thing.

    That's the problem - it's not that unusual a situation. All three of the places I've lived in the UK (Yorkshire, Kent and Bath) had trails that we learned to avoid in the winter because they turned into bike-clogging quagmires. UK trails are typically ancient rights of way across farmland or moors. Wet, muddy places.

    All my bikes have mudguards where practicable, but the mountain bikes get Crud guards unless they have retired from active duty and are being used as hack/round-town bikes.
    John Stevenson
  • colintravcolintrav Posts: 1,074
    Valy wrote:
    This is one thing that I don’t quite get- why are there just about no mudguards supplied with bikes from the get go? I mean - especially in this country, where it rains every 10 minutes. Surely it's not because people enjoy getting a cold spray of dirty water in their faces whenever they ride in the rain?

    I recall someone mentioning that they ~ "Love getting covered in mud" when they go MTBing, while I see how one could like that... I still don't quite understand the reason as to why more or less all the bikes on sale have no mudguards. In Russia all the bikes have them, not here though. Okay – it might add a few quid more onto the price or something... but I dono – should not it be considered a pretty compulsory thing on a bike?

    So... whoever can make me understand, that would be cool.



    There is bikes still available with mudguards again they are not built for offroad use ..
    .. and reason why many mtb don't come with mudguards because they are never made with them included simple because the people that design them excluded them for cost reasons and the overall finished article


    Yet with mtb havin no guards it's givin those an opertunity to create and sell guards such as "crudcatcher" that sell guards which imo are p.ish

    And don't do the job intended
  • AlexAlex Posts: 2,086
    Mudguards don't work for serious mountainbiking. Simple fact. They break easily, they rattle about. They don't catch half the mud that gets flung because knobbly tyres don't fling mud in a predictable way.

    Neoguards (or original inner tube) and downtube mounted guards are the only things worth the time on your serious mountainbike.

    The added bonus of which is that neither of these fine inventions leave your bike looking like a pretend crosser.
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