No longer a trail centre virgin..

rhyko7

urrghhh :shock: that sucks so bad:( , that would drive me nuts, its impossible to take it easy when you get back into riding, you know how it is when the adrenaline kicks in = faster faster faster.
good luck anyways, hope you can find it in you to take it easy! no doubt you will have your elbow padded up to the nines and you may get away with crashes with good padding.

Thewaylander

the black loop in afan has actually been smoothed after some accidents and has lost its edge.

To be fair this happening alot over wales. Look CYD changing most of there ratings to black, when the trails are not that technical. its mostly down to councils sweating over being sued. which then confuses us bikers as the trails are not really marked up accurately.

Its really bad at Cwm carn not only have the ladder drops gone, but the wall ride has been taken aways and replaced with a loose awfully built burm which isn't steep enouugh i nearly lose it there often now

P-Jay

That's a nightmare, I guess if they go sanitising everytime someones gets hurt we'll end up with a bunch of blue/green trails (in old money) badged up as super-black. At least where the good Cwmcarn lord taketh away, he also giveth. Had some good reports from my mates on the new bits of the DH there and the little tweaks to the end of the XC are great, it's so fast now! Or was back in June lol.

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

The black thing bothers me. Most black runs are pretty easy in the UK, but even the really easy ones, like Llandegla, have had to be toned down because people were complaining about hurting themselves.
So, really, they mostly started off challenging, and then had to be tamed because of too many numpties.

I dunno, I'm not sure how true that is... I think bikes have got better, but I don't think it's true that all modern blacks are getting easier. If you look at glentress black, the hardest parts are the new bits at the end while the easy bit is the old part- it used to be considered properly black when it was built but these days it's practically red. Not because it's been made easier but because the level's been raised.

Drumlanrig black's pretty new, and respectably tough. Kirroughtree opened in 2004 I think, and I gather it's tougher than most of the welsh blacks. Never ridden in Wales myself but one of the guys we were with reckons Kirroughtree red would qualify as a "seriously hard black" down south

supersonic

Black can mean long and lots of climbs rather than just obstacles. The grading needs refining a little to take this into account.

P-Jay

That's true, the Mojo Trail is graded the same as Skyline at the moment. They're both tough, but for very different reasons.

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

I dunno, I'm not sure how true that is... I think bikes have got better, but I don't think it's true that all modern blacks are getting easier. If you look at glentress black, the hardest parts are the new bits at the end while the easy bit is the old part- it used to be considered properly black when it was built but these days it's practically red. Not because it's been made easier but because the level's been raised.

But you'll always have new riders coming along, and we all start off at a similar skill level.
Just because people can ride the double blacks in Chatel doesn't mean every UK trail should be turned to blue.

As far as the Scottish trails go, I think Sonic may have hit the nail on the head about the endurance thing as well. The climbs in Glentress/Innerleithen are pretty easy-going, whereas some of the Coedy stuff is quite vicious, physically.
However, as a rider who considers himself an "expert" grade, I would like to see black sections really challenge me technically, and double blacks have sections that I would think twice about.
As it stands, Black routes are just fun, but this could be WHY we have so many inexperienced riders attempting black runs. They find one that they're comfortable with, then think that all blacks are the same, and end up hurting themselves pretty badly on one, and complain to the forestry comission etc.
For example, the Black in Llandegla is very very tame. The other Welsh trail centres are a more challenging, and then Scotland goes one step further (although I noticed there are chicken-runs for most things)

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

But you'll always have new riders coming along, and we all start off at a similar skill level.
[/quote]

I meant with the bikes- even 10 years ago you had to spend an awful lot to get a bike as good as today's £500 entry level hardtails. The average quality of machines on a UK black is pretty phenomenally high... Some of the older blacks, glentress frinstance, were built with shonky 90s hardtails in mind, then we go and ride round them on 5 inch full sussers costing more than a car and complain they're too easy.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

However, as a rider who considers himself an "expert" grade, I would like to see black sections really challenge me technically, and double blacks have sections that I would think twice about.

Done Kirroughtree? You arrive at McMoab and instead of a little red or black sign, there's a skull and crossbones The main exit off of McMoab's the first thing I've looked at for a while and just known there was no point even trying, I was at best going to ride up to it once and brick myself

Know exactly where you're coming from though, I'm at a point where I'm reasonably comfortable with your average seven stanes black, but at the back of my mind is "what next". Golspie I guess, or a less capable bike or something. Downhilling, but that's not for me. I'm not at that point yet myself but maybe I'll get there.

Anonymous

Last time I bricked it was in Chatel. They really ARE insane over there.

Northwind

Hmm, here's a pic that shows the bit I was meaning...



That's not MBUK "tilt the camera so it looks steep" photography, that's exactly how steep it is, and it's about as high as my house, with nothing but granite to land on. I know I've got the ability to ride it, I just lack the balls But THAT'S black

colintrav

RealMan wrote:

Just had a weekend in Wales, and we were staying near Afan. Had a very good time. Very nice to go out when its really wet, but not actually get that muddy. We did the wall twice on the first day, then whites level twice on the second day, with a couple of goes on the black run each time. Unfortunately, on the third day we only had limited time so we only managed perheypshfdth (hmm...) once.

Really enjoyed the climbing and the descending, and most of the people seemed very friendly. Nice cafes, and the bike shop was good. If anyone cares, I used rubber queens 2.2 and they were perfect...

However, we both thought the black run, especially after reading all the danger signs, was going to be really hard, and it was actually quite easy. Are all black runs like this, or is it just the one in afan thats a bit tame?

Also I'm even more confused about this whole "trail centre bike" thing where you need 6 inches of travel front and rear. I rode my hardtail the whole time, and there was never really a point where I wanted full sus, except for a few bumpy berms that wouldve been a bit quicker with the added smoothness.


So, my big question - where should we try next..?

Are you being serious , It's Obvious to spot that you do a bit of horse riding don't you ..

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

Hmm, here's a pic that shows the bit I was meaning...

That's not MBUK "tilt the camera so it looks steep" photography, that's exactly how steep it is, and it's about as high as my house, with nothing but granite to land on. I know I've got the ability to ride it, I just lack the balls But THAT'S black

I don't see what's so black about that, it's just steep.

turnercraig

I've done all the Welsh trail centres and a few of the 7 Stanes, I've only done Kirroughtree twice but I can safely say that it is the most extreme trail I have done.

That bit on Mcmoab was scary, the last bit was worse it's called the 'chute', very steep.

The Blackcraigs bits after Mcmoab are incredible, some of the rock gardens and drops are very intimidating, think Coed Y Brenin on steroids for ten years. there were numerous bits where all you can do is pick your line, stay off the brakes, lean back and hope for the best.

I would say that Kirroughtree, Mcmoab and Blackcraigs have got the 'black' grading spot on.

Anonymous

Sounds like I will be returning to scotland early next year to try Kirroughtree then. I really like the sound of McMoab, and Blackcraigs

cee

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Sounds like I will be returning to scotland early next year to try Kirroughtree then. I really like the sound of McMoab, and Blackcraigs

in fariness though..the texture on that mcmoab rock gives it insane grip. it looks a lot scarier than it is.....but sure if you bin it....its all rock.

just trust it.

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I don't see what's so black about that, it's just steep.

Steep + high + nowt to land on but the rock you're riding off, and a tight entrance. It's got a decent runout though.

rhyko7

Northwind wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I don't see what's so black about that, it's just steep.

Steep + high + nowt to land on but the rock you're riding off, and a tight entrance. It's got a decent runout though.

im actually with you on this one-i consider that black (maybe red), cant imagine an old lady or xc newbie riding down that

Northwind

Hang on...

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?h ... A4QqwQwAA#

Black

supersonic

It is a commit thing. Most fall off because they suddenly grab the brakes. But it is just a fairly steep slope, smooth too!

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

Hang on...

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?h ... A4QqwQwAA#

Black

That doesn't look remotely challenging, but it does look fun. I take it you guys have never dropped in on a half pipe before then?

Anyway, as for

cant imagine an old lady or xc newbie riding down that

Well, an XC newbie, or an old lady shouldn't be riding down a RED either.

snotty badger

Whinlatters North side has ben getting smoothed out on places- takes the fun out it if theres no chalenge :x

Northwind

Yup, definately. Or just not getting the weight back enough, apparently a lot of people go straight into the ground at the bottom, the bike starts to tip and when the slope starts to flatten that pitches them straight forwards into the out ramp. Ow....

Or, you do something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD-vrr7P6iY

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

That doesn't look remotely challenging

That'd be why most people don't ride it then? Because it's too easy But yeah, I sort of agree, it's not technically difficult but that doesn't make it easy. I've done half pipes, but never one remotely this big, the one I used to go to was maybe 2/5th as tall. Not to mention nicer to land on when I fell! Crashing on a wooden pipe's nothing, sliding on granite kind of sucks.

I rode the rest of mcmoab, which is supposed to be the hard part, then bottled this bit :roll:

Anonymous

I really don't understand what's to "bottle".
I must pay this place a visit. It looks like riding down the quarry inclines, except you haven't got a 4-foot drop off to worry about at the beginning or the end

here's a better view

(cough cough) not that I've ever ridden them, of course, we're not meant to (cough cough)

_Ferret_

I'll keep quiet shall I?

supersonic

I guess we all find different aspects more challenging or easier than others. I am fine with steep chutes, steep rocky climbs but not so good at doubles or ultra fast cornering.

Anonymous

_Ferret_ wrote:

I'll keep quiet shall I?

You can say whatever you want - it's not a footpath. We're not meant to go near them because of the risk of collapse.
Thing is, if I was accosted for being there, I'd take it on the chin, not come here and moan about it like a tit.

Daz555

I'm not really getting that chute/roll-off on McMoab either. Am I missing something?

I suppose the height would put some off, and I know steepness does freak some people out - especially if they have to take the fall-line. I think being able ski/snowboard comfortably on the steeps helps remove that fear.

There you go, Daz's top tip for mountain biking - learn to ski. :shock:

Now where I still struggle is cornering - I still lack confidence in my tyres and it definitely takes the edge off my average speed. It's getting better though - I only got back into MTB this year after a long long break.

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I really don't understand what's to "bottle".

I'm quite afraid of heights but it's not just me, the rest of mcmoab's pretty technical and that's fine but not a lot of people take that exit. You're far more likely to come a cropper on the rock causeways elsewhere on the rock though, or on the step-ups.

rhyko7

when you guys yeehaamcgee and Northwind say you have dropped in on a half pipe, are you talking about a 12 foot vert ramp or a 4-7 foot mini ramp? i take it you guys ride BMX or hardtails in skateparks too?

the 12 foot vert ramp is very very scary and mind boggling when you do it for the 1st time- i remember thinking about doing it for ages then crapping myself and just went for it.

:roll: