No longer a trail centre virgin..

RealMan

Just had a weekend in Wales, and we were staying near Afan. Had a very good time. Very nice to go out when its really wet, but not actually get that muddy. We did the wall twice on the first day, then whites level twice on the second day, with a couple of goes on the black run each time. Unfortunately, on the third day we only had limited time so we only managed perheypshfdth (hmm...) once.

Really enjoyed the climbing and the descending, and most of the people seemed very friendly. Nice cafes, and the bike shop was good. If anyone cares, I used rubber queens 2.2 and they were perfect...

However, we both thought the black run, especially after reading all the danger signs, was going to be really hard, and it was actually quite easy. Are all black runs like this, or is it just the one in afan thats a bit tame?

Also I'm even more confused about this whole "trail centre bike" thing where you need 6 inches of travel front and rear. I rode my hardtail the whole time, and there was never really a point where I wanted full sus, except for a few bumpy berms that wouldve been a bit quicker with the added smoothness.


So, my big question - where should we try next..?

rhyko7

all the black runs in wales are easy, be carefull if you go to scotland or europe, black means black then!
the wall its my fave track-love the last decsent!
i agree that penhydd is good fun on a hardtail, i find whytes level a bit shakey tho, especially the black bit where i find i cant attack and keep momentum on the HT

are those rubber queens as huge as everyone says they are?, ive always wanted to try one, but not sure i have enough frame clearance for it.

RealMan

They fit my chameleon and RS revelations fine. They are really a 2.2, but they just have a bit of volume. I think the 2.4s are pretty huge though, never seen them in the flesh though. Whytes level was my favourite I think, really enjoyed the singletrack climbing, and the descents were fun. Really hammered it down there the second time.

ads4

Whites ws my favourite when I went there the other week for my fist trip. We managed Penhydd in the afternoon but I was too knackered to really enjoy it! Will be hitting White's again in another week or two

bay73

just popped my trail centre cherry too at afan this weekend. what a laugh.

very wet, windy and tiring but the final descent on Whites of Energy, Goodwood and Darkside was the most fun i've had with my clothes on for many a year 8)

P-Jay

"All black runs in Wales are easy"

If you fancy a real challenge, try the Raven Trail at Brechfa. It's a monster.

cee

RealMan wrote:

Also I'm even more confused about this whole "trail centre bike" thing where you need 6 inches of travel front and rear. I rode my hardtail the whole time, and there was never really a point where I wanted full sus, except for a few bumpy berms that wouldve been a bit quicker with the added smoothness.


So, my big question - where should we try next..?

I agree.....6 inches of travel is not required for any trail centre....anywhere in the UK. It definitely makes it more comfortable for some....but not needed at all. My DH bike has 6 inch travel.....

As for Scottish trail centres being more difficult than others in the UK....don't know....never ridden in england or wales....but I always ride my hardtail anyway....

Also....trail centres are great and all....but I don't like to ride the same trail every time, so usually ride more natural stuff...which is generally much more difficult than anything at glentress/innerleithen can throw at you.

As for next....why not come up to scotland and try out some of the 7stanes and the tonnes of natural riding nearby... you could do gt/inners and some of the dunfriesshire stuff in one long weekend.

joshtp

P-Jay wrote:

"All black runs in Wales are easy"

If you fancy a real challenge, try the Raven Trail at Brechfa. It's a monster.

you pansy boy, us welsh lads laugh in the face of this so called "monster".
no, the raven is pretty tough, not sure if its a monster tho.....
Glad you liked Afan, it is fantastic! i love penhydd esp.....
Whites is my fave tho, truly fantastic.
As for where next, well....... BRECHFA, going this weekend, takin a bunch of beginers to do the green, its actually really good fun! hopefully might get some black or at least blue in as well!

turnercraig

We should be heading down to Brechfa soon.

We have only been there once, we did the Gorlech trail with the black bit on the end and thought it was amazing! The Raven wasn't built then.

Which is the best trail?

Is the Raven much harder than the Gorlech (hope so )?

P-Jay

joshtp/mbukman wrote:

P-Jay wrote:

"All black runs in Wales are easy"

If you fancy a real challenge, try the Raven Trail at Brechfa. It's a monster.

you pansy boy, us welsh lads laugh in the face of this so called "monster".
no, the raven is pretty tough, not sure if its a monster tho.....
Glad you liked Afan, it is fantastic! i love penhydd esp.....
Whites is my fave tho, truly fantastic.
As for where next, well....... BRECHFA, going this weekend, takin a bunch of beginers to do the green, its actually really good fun! hopefully might get some black or at least blue in as well!

I'm welsh too!!

Come on, I'm trying to fight our corner here! LOL.

TBH I found the Raven the toughest and possibly the most rewarding ride I've ever done this side of flying down the Alps on my DH.

I liked the Black at Llandegla too, but it's more mad-made, you really fight the terrain on the Raven. I Noticed thay've sanitised it a bit since I first went, that steep as hell loose berm turnin has been moved and they filled in that narrow but insanely high gap jump thing just before you merge with the blue at the end.

It's the trail centre review in this months MBUK, they say it's as tough as a tough thing.

The only riding I've done in England is Aston Court, what a bag of bollocks thats is.

P-Jay

turnercraig wrote:

We should be heading down to Brechfa soon.

We have only been there once, we did the Gorlech trail with the black bit on the end and thought it was amazing! The Raven wasn't built then.

Which is the best trail?

Is the Raven much harder than the Gorlech (hope so )?

Very different, the Gorlech is awesome fun, and has insane looking things like the biggest woop thing I've ever seen (it's not hard to do, just you're in a very bad place if it goes wrong) and some of the optional stuff is super steep, with all the berms, drops, jumps, table tops, doubles etc it's like one massive freeride track with climbs.

The Raven is a darker beast, you start on a easy fire road riding with kids etc off to the green blue, then turn straight into a steep secton with little logs to jump, drops etc.

It's tough because you do it totaly cold and it's a natural surface so if it's been raining, which it will be in the that part of the world it's slippery, then you're onto an insanely steep climb on rough terrain.
It's a Skitzophrenic course, first time we did it we were thinking it was 'black' like Skyline, pretty tech but mostly just a test of fittness, which I'm not. But then you turn a bend and it's 6 massive tabletops in a row and freeridy again like the end of Grolech only more so, then it's long lung busting climb, 200m log ride, log river crossing, high, but with catch nets and the final section is awesome, super tight, super fast woops when you have to hit a bit of trail about 6"'s wide at full speed to make the other side. I't s real test of all your skills.

I rode it on my 6" bike, because that's what I have, as above you don't need this type of bike to do it, you can do it on anything, but I climb slower and come down faster than I would on a lighter bike. It's whatever you wanna do really.

turnercraig

Ye I agree there was some incredible moments on the Gorlech, some of the berms were almost from a cartoon!

I like the idea of the Raven with a bit of everything so will probably do that one, plus its good to do new trails.

Northwind

RealMan wrote:

Also I'm even more confused about this whole "trail centre bike" thing where you need 6 inches of travel front and rear. I rode my hardtail the whole time, and there was never really a point where I wanted full sus, except for a few bumpy berms that wouldve been a bit quicker with the added smoothness.

I've never heard anyone say that Though I've heard lots of people say "Why do people say you need a long travel full suss for trail centres" I reckon some sort of slack-ish long-ish light-ish hardtail is pretty much the ideal tool for every trail centre I've been to, but it depends on how you like to ride too I'm sure.

Anyway, next? Come to Scotland, do Kirroughtree and Drumlanrig blacks, they're in the middle of nowhere but they're sooooooo worth it.

el loco pollo

cee wrote:

I agree.....6 inches of travel is not required for any trail centre....anywhere in the UK. It definitely makes it more comfortable for some....but not needed at all. My DH bike has 6 inch travel.....

Define "need" - you don't really *need* any travel at all. You *could* ride a DH track on a rigid singlespeed. It would be shit though. Which is why people have suspension.

:roll:

joshtp

yeah the raven is tough, not mental tho, it has some awsome cartoon style berms, like a vallley and you whoop up and down the sides like a half pipe, its amazin. its also got some huge A-line style tables, they are sweet. the mbuk review was a bit over the top, it is a tough trail but....

Anonymous

The black thing bothers me. Most black runs are pretty easy in the UK, but even the really easy ones, like Llandegla, have had to be toned down because people were complaining about hurting themselves.
So, really, they mostly started off challenging, and then had to be tamed because of too many numpties.

Scotland has more "commit or crash" features than I've seen in Wales, with sizeable dropoffs and so on, but they always have chicken runs.
The "black" sections at coed y brenin (they've changed all their gradings around now) such as "Snap-Crackle&Pop", and "Cane & Abel", although not technically overly demanding, can be pretty high-consequence if you do come a cropper, which is what I think a few trail centres base their grading on.
I mean, Abel, in particular (I think it's abel anyway) has some left hand corners with little kickers and drops before them. If you overshoot those corners, you're going to fall a long long way down the mountainside, doing a great impression of a pinball through the trees on the way down.

cee

el loco pollo wrote:

cee wrote:

I agree.....6 inches of travel is not required for any trail centre....anywhere in the UK. It definitely makes it more comfortable for some....but not needed at all. My DH bike has 6 inch travel.....

Define "need" - you don't really *need* any travel at all. You *could* ride a DH track on a rigid singlespeed. It would be shoot though. Which is why people have suspension.

:roll:

it was a quote from a comment from the OP. He said

RealMan wrote:

Also I'm even more confused about this whole "trail centre bike" thing where you need 6 inches of travel front and rear. I rode my hardtail the whole time, and there was never really a point where I wanted full sus, except for a few bumpy berms that wouldve been a bit quicker with the added smoothness.

hence my use of italics

:roll:

what you have done is re-iterate my point exaclty...then rolled your eyes at me!!!!!!!!!!!

supersonic

The original black run at Wharncliffe has some very hard sections. 6ft drop offs to flat and full on rocky DH parts.

rhyko7

P-Jay wrote:

"All black runs in Wales are easy"

If you fancy a real challenge, try the Raven Trail at Brechfa. It's a monster.

sorry but that black Raven run is not a challenge-the red run is actually more intense and faster, i think the red is scarier because its on a narrower track, your going quicker and there isnt much room for error. the black run is probably more fun, especially the switch back section where as the red run requires total focus at speed.

i rode a muddy DH track today with high rollers that was a challenge-my mates had wet screams, i could keep up with one but my other friend was dialled.

whilst on topic of brechfa, i will offer some valuable advice, if you are going there in the wet use the softest tyre compound that you have as it becomes lethally slidey, its basically shale so it can be like riding on ice in places. oh yeah and on the table tops, slow down for the last one as its about a metre or so too short and you will fall outa the sky if you have cleared the jumps before it-i found this out the hard way

lawman

supersonic wrote:

The original black run at Wharncliffe has some very hard sections. 6ft drop offs to flat and full on rocky DH parts.

the diamond back is one of yje gnarliest trails ive ever ridden tbh, welsh stuff is fun not really challenging, you have to think obviously, but they're i not poo poo moments by any means ...... well for me atleast the final doownhill part of cutgate path to lady bower is pretty gnalrly

P-Jay

rhyko7 wrote:

P-Jay wrote:

"All black runs in Wales are easy"

If you fancy a real challenge, try the Raven Trail at Brechfa. It's a monster.

sorry but that black Raven run is not a challenge-the red run is actually more intense and faster, i think the red is scarier because its on a narrower track, your going quicker and there isnt much room for error. the black run is probably more fun, especially the switch back section where as the red run requires total focus at speed.

i rode a muddy DH track today with high rollers that was a challenge-my mates had wet screams, i could keep up with one but my other friend was dialled.

Yay for you. I did a wheelie on a penny farthing once. Of course the the trail centre expert in MBUK is wrong and they've miss-graded the whole thing.

I mean I've only rode Brachfa about 20 times, but I'm sure the quickest bits of the Red is about 3 times wider then the Raven, certainly is when you're riding along the top of a log.

rhyko7

P-Jay wrote:

rhyko7 wrote:

P-Jay wrote:

"All black runs in Wales are easy"

If you fancy a real challenge, try the Raven Trail at Brechfa. It's a monster.

sorry but that black Raven run is not a challenge-the red run is actually more intense and faster, i think the red is scarier because its on a narrower track, your going quicker and there isnt much room for error. the black run is probably more fun, especially the switch back section where as the red run requires total focus at speed.

i rode a muddy DH track today with high rollers that was a challenge-my mates had wet screams, i could keep up with one but my other friend was dialled.

Yay for you. I did a wheelie on a penny farthing once. Of course the the trail centre expert in MBUK is wrong and they've miss-graded the whole thing.

I mean I've only rode Brachfa about 20 times, but I'm sure the quickest bits of the Red is about 3 times wider then the Raven, certainly is when you're riding along the top of a log.

woh dont get your knickers in a twist sorry for having an opinion :roll:

im sure i havent got the black and red mixed up-the one red run is F*cking lethal, its mega fast, swoopy and sometimes very difficult to keep the tyres on the ground. dont get me wrong i like the black. the reason that the black is black and red is red is only because the black line has jumps and the red doesnt other than a little camel jump at the bottom.

oh and the one natural section on the black is tricky as its glupety mud.

P-Jay

rhyko7 wrote:

P-Jay wrote:

rhyko7 wrote:

P-Jay wrote:

"All black runs in Wales are easy"

If you fancy a real challenge, try the Raven Trail at Brechfa. It's a monster.

sorry but that black Raven run is not a challenge-the red run is actually more intense and faster, i think the red is scarier because its on a narrower track, your going quicker and there isnt much room for error. the black run is probably more fun, especially the switch back section where as the red run requires total focus at speed.

i rode a muddy DH track today with high rollers that was a challenge-my mates had wet screams, i could keep up with one but my other friend was dialled.

Yay for you. I did a wheelie on a penny farthing once. Of course the the trail centre expert in MBUK is wrong and they've miss-graded the whole thing.

I mean I've only rode Brachfa about 20 times, but I'm sure the quickest bits of the Red is about 3 times wider then the Raven, certainly is when you're riding along the top of a log.

woh dont get your knickers in a twist sorry for having an opinion :roll:

im sure i havent got the black and red mixed up-the one red run is F*cking lethal, its mega fast, swoopy and sometimes very difficult to keep the tyres on the ground. dont get me wrong i like the black. the reason that the black is black and red is red is only because the black line has jumps and the red doesnt other than a little camel jump at the bottom.

oh and the one natural section on the black is tricky as its glupety mud.

You might actually have them mixed up.

The end of the red is super quick, but it's open so you get a good look at everything as you come up to it, it's tabletop after table drop, few drops and ends with a couple of tight, tall, fast berms and a final TT, which isn't that big, but needs commitment to the final berms to get the speed to clear. But's it's at least a 1m wide in all but a few spots.

The end of the black is very narrow only 2-3 tyre widths in places, tall and steep woops (as we call them, not sure if that's a real term) that thread along a steep bank (at the top of which is the carpark) you're hitting them blind and only get to spot the bottom of them at the last moment so need to be postive with your stearing. and ends with a couple of drops/ jumps.

Sorry if I snapped, long painful physio session today has left me grumpy. Without sounding like a poof, I'm recovering from a big slam (off the bike since June) and sometimes I worry about people (who are no doubt very compitent) writting that this trail or that is easy and some new guy rocking up with his/her 3 day old first bike and going home in an ambluance.

rhyko7

i think i have parts of the black mixed with red, i ride it with the guy who built it so we take easier routes up hills (short cuts) and dont really stick to the trail so its a bit confusing when your riding the red and black in the same route, im sure the bit im thinking of is on the red route tho- its really long and fast.

i love the bit you call the swoops, but you cant really say that its difficult, its just really good fun.
i think the red, if you ride it slowly, its probably quite easy, but with the black its probably more difficult slowly, when i you i dont mean you, i mean people in general, im not accusing you of being slow, before you tear me head off

ile find some helmet cam footage and show you the bit im thinking of, im 90% sure its on the red trail-i remember following my mate down at silly speed, tyring not to poop myself :oops:

P-Jay

No fear, I have only two speeds, flat out and stopped.

That's probably why I'm held together with metal.

rhyko7

ok, ive found the section that i mentioned that i think is more intense than anything on the black, fell free to disagree, but i find this the scariest part of Brechfa and possibly the most fun due to the adrenaline of being on the edge:-the second part of the video after they cross over the fire road, although you can do this in one go by using the bank as a berm and a big skid hehe, p.s this 1st video isnt me, i dont know who it is-i just pulled it off youtube-seem like decent riders tho having good fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDu6ivDqRs&feature=related

i also found a video of me riding from the brechfa enduro race, im making excuses for this one as its embarrassing lol, :oops: skinny xc tyres, it was wet and i had already been riding for 2 or 3 hours, the back end kept getting away from me: made huge mistake 15 seconds in and had to use the cheat line to catch up, then almost crashed at 55 seconds due to not realising i had to turn left doh!- ah well enjoy my sketchy riding haha:


http://vimeo.com/6769565

supersonic

It looks fast with some rollable jumps, but no real obstacles. You can make it as hard as you like by simply going faster.

rhyko7

supersonic wrote:

It looks fast with some rollable jumps, but no real obstacles. You can make it as hard as you like by simply going faster.

yeah thats kinda my point which i made badly, the red is easy slow but very hard fast, whereas the black is hard slow but not much harder fast, i shouda just said that lol, both have a lot of shale and get dangerous in the wet-i was so happy & proud not to crash in that enduro with the skinny xc tyre, think i had a high roller up front tho and a skinny race tyre on the rear, so front end was well hooked up

P-Jay

Yeah that's the red. Horses for courses I guess, I love that bit, I do doff my cap, you can do the last berms quicker than me, I can't nail that last TT. The final bit of the black scares me.

That bit where you let your mate pass first time, buggered that once, just shot over the fire road and off it, hit a root under some leaves and had the old balloon knot twitching as I came down sideways.

1:35 - slamed so hard on that berm once I didn't realise, was lying on my back, feet still on the pedals, cranking like mad.

rhyko7

that first video isnt me-i just pulled it off ebay to show you section i was thinking of, they look like decent riders tho.
sorry but i have no idea what a TT is?
are you stil tool injured to ride then-what happened?

i feel like a train wreck today after riding DH yesterday with completely wrong tyres-i may aswell have taken a sledge lol

P-Jay

TT = Table Top, just being lazy, I'm here mostly on my iPhone.

Yeah still injured. Hit a big ass rock just of the edge of the trail at Afan, spun the bars and snapped my wrist, over the bars, head first into the dirt (helmet saved my life according to Surgeon) and finally smashed my elbow in the deck.

2 opps, 16 stitches, 14 staples, 13 Ti screws, 2 Ti plates, 3 weeks in princess of wales and 15 physio sessions so far! ha ha.

Should get the sign-off to ride again December the 17th (or perhaps March if it's not yet healed). Then I have to re-learn to ride because my right arm won't go very straight, I end up with one arm bent more than the other and uneven shoulders. Not the most stable riding style.

I wont DH again, my elbow is just too damaged, if it goes they're going to fuse it in one position and I'll lose the use of all my bikes and motorbike so going to try to get back to trail riding and hope for the best.

He's some show-off xray pics.