Comtat - new british company

wombler

Sorry, I don't buy that at all. A top of the range (Italian made) Pinarello 7 years ago was £1500. The recently released Dogma is £3,500. Even with a generous rate of 4% inflation, that £1500 frame is only £2,000 in today's money. So what's the reason, manufacturing costs or profit margins? I know what I think


+ 1 also the 2010 models are more expensive than 2009 despite deflation (and 2009 were more expensive than 2008). The profit margins may well be the same, I wouldn't know as I'm not in the business, but if that is the case then the frame and / or component manufacturers are charging more.

But sterling has depreciated significantly against the euro and dollar in that period. That is going to account for a significant proportion of recent increases.

The reason manufacturing has migrated to the far east is because labout costs are way cheaper, and therefore product prices can come down (and/or margins can go up) and capacity is not a problem. Bikes are no different in that respect to many other manufacturing industries.

timmyflash

Evil Laugh wrote:

timmyflash wrote:

Do people think they're actually going to be good bikes?

Get down to http://www.cycleworx.co.uk/ and have a go.

Might pop down myself and have a look.

Yep, i live in Putney so plan too. Need to wait till i've got enough cash to actually buy though and try a few others so i have some kind of benchmark. Imagine it's annoying people turning up to just have a go with no real interest in making a purchase.

If anyone has a go, please let us know what you think!

hammerite

The comparison with Ribble and PX is interesting. I think there is room for another, PX and Ribble seem to do a roaring trade, and from some of the views on here you have to wait quite a while for a Ribble.

Now it might be to do with the manufacturer not being able to produce enough frames. It might be down to the PX or Ribble mechanics not being able to build bikes quick enough once the frames are in.

But it could be down to a simple matter of cash flow. Who knows if Ribble/PX can't order enough frames because they don't have the cash to pay? Who knows if Ribble/PX can't build enough bikes because they don't have the cash to pay for more staff? Or don't have/can't afford a big enough warehouse/workshop to deal with demand?

If this is the case, and Comtat have come in with a similar ability then good luck to them. They have some money to buy up some frames, and have some capacity to build them, and by the sounds of it this is needed.

I'd be interested to see if Comtat come up with a TT bike soon, as PX and Ribble (and Dalkiia) seem to do OK in this field too.

APIII

Is part of that down to demand being seasonal though? I imagine it's a lot easier to get hold of a Ribble in November than it is in July. Then of course you've got the lead times from the far east. In our line of business it's a 12 week turnaround from date of order. I'd assume it's the same for frames. If you get you're sales estimates wrong, you're stuffed, which seems to have happend with Ribble this year.

hammerite

Very much so APIII, if you have to order 12 weeks in advance, perhaps in a period when you are relaively quiet you could possibly order less (especially in todays uncertain financial climate). If you have to pay upfront - or a proportion upfront it would also effect the amount you order, even more so if you are relying on loans/overdraft to pay.

If part of the demand is seasonal then you don't want a load of mechanics sat around twiddling their thumbs while you are paying them if you are quiet. And I'd imagine it's difficult to get in decent mechanics at short notice if demand goes through the roof.

Evil Laugh

timmyflash wrote:

Evil Laugh wrote:

timmyflash wrote:

Do people think they're actually going to be good bikes?

Get down to http://www.cycleworx.co.uk/ and have a go.

Might pop down myself and have a look.

Yep, i live in Putney so plan too. Need to wait till i've got enough cash to actually buy though and try a few others so i have some kind of benchmark. Imagine it's annoying people turning up to just have a go with no real interest in making a purchase.

If anyone has a go, please let us know what you think!

I'd imagine they'd be pleased to get anyone on the bikes at this stage of the business.

mcrdave

balthazar wrote:

Baroque typefaces are so over. And the website copy needs an editor.

Totally agree! Coming from a design background, I wish they'd at least used an elegant script like Adios
http://www.sudtipos.com/fonts/123

As far as aesthetically pleasing, contemporary frame designs go, I think Sabbath bikes are the current leaders

http://www.sabbathbicycles.co.uk/

I know it's only looks but if you're investing all this money then it's gotta look right in my opinion!

rossere

They really need to get the component prices down though, and get a bike in the £1000 bracket to take some C2W money.

+1

From a recent news article on Bike Radar:
According to retail chain Halfords, 15 percent of all UK bike sales are now made through the scheme. For some independent shops it accounts for up to 25 percent of annual turnover.

If Comtat are to get a foothold in the market place then they really need to target this market.

alcooker

I remember a couple of years ago when I was in the market for a new bike build, I spent ages researching things in my budget. What I essentially found was that there are a great deal of companies rebadging frames from the same few manufacturers. A few companies admit where they source carbon frames, most keep very quiet about it. If you were to search Dedacciai for example you'd see that they've made frames for Condor and Ribble and a whole host of European companies, same frame, very different pricing, very different paint jobs.

Have a scan at this little eye opener.
http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328

I think Comtat have been very honest about where the frames are sourced, I'm sure the owner would like nothing better than to design his own bikes and make them here, I would suggest he wins the lottery asap and goes to see the carbon guys at Mclaren, I don't suppose they'd charge him too much, they get by on a measily £433,300,000 a year. :roll:

I think the frames look very cool, no lairy graphics or paint jobs, just a good mature understated look. If they'd have launched two years ago I'm slightly embarrassed to say I would have bought one purely on the looks, safe in the knowledge that I'd probably be riding the same frame as used by an established high end company.

Comtat man, I say best of British/Chinese luck to you and please feel free to p.m. me if you feel the need to let me have one of those Bedoins

giant_man

mcrdave wrote:

balthazar wrote:

Baroque typefaces are so over. And the website copy needs an editor.

Totally agree! Coming from a design background, I wish they'd at least used an elegant script like Adios
http://www.sudtipos.com/fonts/123

As far as aesthetically pleasing, contemporary frame designs go, I think Sabbath bikes are the current leaders

http://www.sabbathbicycles.co.uk/

I know it's only looks but if you're investing all this money then it's gotta look right in my opinion!

Speaking as another designer, I totally agree, their paint 'schemes' and branding leave a lot to be desired, not exactly groundbreaking .....

Chip \'oyler

giant mancp wrote:

mcrdave wrote:

balthazar wrote:

Baroque typefaces are so over. And the website copy needs an editor.

Totally agree! Coming from a design background, I wish they'd at least used an elegant script like Adios
http://www.sudtipos.com/fonts/123

As far as aesthetically pleasing, contemporary frame designs go, I think Sabbath bikes are the current leaders

http://www.sabbathbicycles.co.uk/

I know it's only looks but if you're investing all this money then it's gotta look right in my opinion!

Speaking as another designer, I totally agree, their paint 'schemes' and branding leave a lot to be desired, not exactly groundbreaking .....

My thoughts exactly. Just another company who've copied Rapha.

giant_man

Yes I think so. What people want is something different surely, this is yet another company selling chinese frames with a different name on the tubing. Nothing new.