Comtat - new british company

PeteinSQ

There's an article about this company on the bikeradar homepage and they've come in for some serious flack.

Basically they're importing frames from Taiwan (just like everyone else) and then selling them as complete bikes but also as framesets.

What do people think of the frames?

http://www.comtat.co.uk/frames.asp

I don't see how they're doing anything wildly different to Ribble although I note that they have some extra Comtat branded bits a pieces. £699 for a nice enough carbon frame and fork doesn't seem too bad to me and I might consider getting one.

softlad

I know Comtat is a region of France, but personally I would not have used a name with the word 'tat' in it....

I wish the fella luck - as you say, it's not much different to what the likes of PX, Ribble, Pro-Lite and others are doing....

PeteinSQ

softlad wrote:

I know Comtat is a region of France, but personally I would not have used a name with the word 'tat' in it....

Yeah, but we're supposed to be sophisticated continental Europe admiring cyclists.

softlad

PeteinSQ wrote:

Yeah, but we're supposed to be sophisticated continental Europe admiring cyclists.

yeah right..

It just sounds a bit too contrived - reminds me of the whole 'Rapha' thing. As a name, 'Comtat' just doesn't cut it, IMO...

PeteinSQ

I agree that they do seem to be going down the Rapha road. Rather better value than Rapha though. Or at least not as extravagantly priced anyway.

softlad

PeteinSQ wrote:

I agree that they do seem to be going down the Rapha road. Rather better value than Rapha though. Or at least not as extravagantly priced anyway.

agree on the value - I was just referring to both companies using obscure French references...

STEFANOS4784

peteinSQ, your real name wouldn't happen to be Adam Roberts would it?

Only joking, anyhoo i think they look nice and i like the logo on the jersey, shame they have 'Comtat cycling club' on them though as i wouldn't want to wear a jersey of some club i've never heard of or am ever likely to see......

PeteinSQ

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

peteinSQ, your real name wouldn't happen to be Adam Roberts would it?

Only joking, anyhoo i think they look nice and i like the logo on the jersey, shame they have 'Comtat cycling club' on them though as i wouldn't want to wear a jersey of some club i've never heard of or am ever likely to see......

No, although I did email him this morning. My real name is Pete! and I used to live in Surrey Quays.

cal_stewart

website works really well a lot cleaner then ribble, looks great value better then ribble again. IMO wheels could be cheaper on the builds.

PeteinSQ

I don't really get the idea behind these brands that set up cycling clubs to be honest. Rapha have one and Whitcomb cycles tried/did(?) to set one up too.

Who joins them? I'm a member of my local club and would have thought that was the obvious thing to do?

kfinlay

sory but it sounds short for Complete Tat to me :?

giant_man

PeteinSQ wrote:

There's an article about this company on the bikeradar homepage and they've come in for some serious flack.

Basically they're importing frames from Taiwan (just like everyone else) and then selling them as complete bikes but also as framesets.

What do people think of the frames?

http://www.comtat.co.uk/frames.asp

I don't see how they're doing anything wildly different to Ribble although I note that they have some extra Comtat branded bits a pieces. £699 for a nice enough carbon frame and fork doesn't seem too bad to me and I might consider getting one.

]
You've hit the nail on the head. Why oh why is yet another company doing the same thing as countless others? Why haven't we the funding to build carbon (or any other material come to that) frames over here? I have put similar comments on the home page as well, there's nothing new they're doing here, just yet another new name. I don't understand why they bother. They'll be another one crop up next week I'm sure. Enigma (a UK company, who i have no connection with btw) is at least doing something different and that is designing and BUILDING steel frames in the UK. That has to be applauded.

PeteinSQ

You're right that Enigma do build their custom frames here in the UK, but their off the shelf frames (which still cost more than the Comtat frames) are made in Taiwan.

Manufacturing here in the UK is (with some exceptions of course) a thing of the past for mass market items.

giant_man

yes I can see your point Pete but one day, surely things will change, and that day I look forward to.

Enigma making their custom frames over here is fantastic surely. It's a start of something that I hope more framebuilders will turn to.

And speaking of Comtat, jeez it is an awful name.

PeteinSQ

Enigma making their custom frames over here is fantastic surely. It's a start of something that I hope more framebuilders will turn to

Of course it is. We already have some traditional frame builders - Whitcomb was one (although I'm not sure how it works since they moved to Wales).

PeteinSQ

One other thing that occurred to me was that there is still room in this market for someone supplying almost the same thing as Ribble. We know this from seeing how long people have to wait for their Ribble bikes to turn up.

STEFANOS4784

giant mancp wrote:

yes I can see your point Pete but one day, surely things will change, and that day I look forward to.

Enigma making their custom frames over here is fantastic surely. It's a start of something that I hope more framebuilders will turn to.

Or is it the end of something.......

softlad

The UK has a long tradition of expert frame builders like Chas Roberts, Dave Yates, Harry Quinn, Bob Jackson, Dave Russell, Brian Rourke and others - but they are (or were) steel craftsmen first and foremost.

Not much use when most people are looking for carbon fibre....the skills do not transfer...

Escargot

It's all down to profit margins. It's easily sustainable to build stuff here and to make a profit but people want to make a faster buck.

It will undoubtedly change as China are becoming quite rich and once they close the gap then it will become too expensive for us to import goods from them.

Then we'll be in s#it creek as pretty much most of our skill base has all but dissapeared

Chip \'oyler

I'm sure there is a market for handmade British carbon fibre frames.

If I won Euro Millions then I'd poach a carbon fibre framebuilder from Italy or the States and set up a company.

The British Parlee.

PeteinSQ

It might be cheaper to poach a carbon frame builder from China.

softlad

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I'm sure there is a market for handmade British carbon fibre frames.

If I won Euro Millions then I'd poach a carbon fibre framebuilder from Italy or the States and set up a company.

The British Parlee.

you won't need to poach anyone - just approach an established frame designer/builder and link him up with one of the many CF fabrication businesses in the UK which already serve the aerospace and racecar markets - they should be able to work it out between them. I suspect all that is needed is the investment......

Having said that - it's all been done before, by Mike Burrows and Lotus....nothing much came of that....

giant_man

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I'm sure there is a market for handmade British carbon fibre frames.

If I won Euro Millions then I'd poach a carbon fibre framebuilder from Italy or the States and set up a company.

The British Parlee.

Sounds pretty damn good to me. I'll go in halfs with you chip .....

Chip \'oyler

softlad wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I'm sure there is a market for handmade British carbon fibre frames.

If I won Euro Millions then I'd poach a carbon fibre framebuilder from Italy or the States and set up a company.

The British Parlee.

you won't need to poach anyone - just approach an established frame designer/builder and link him up with one of the many CF fabrication businesses in the UK which already serve the aerospace and racecar markets - they should be able to work it out between them. I suspect all that is needed is the investment......

Having said that - it's all been done before, by Mike Burrows and Lotus....nothing much came of that....

I'm not talking about moulded monocoque's. As people have said Britain is famous for handmade steel frames (using lugs). It would be great to have a British company that built carbon frames using using the lug and tube method, like Serotta, Viner Maxima, Parlee's etc

Traditional values - modern materials and designs.

Although you could use your model with someone like Fibre-Lyte.

softlad

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I'm not talking about moulded monocoque's. As people have said Britain is famous for handmade steel frames (using lugs). It would be great to have a British company that built carbon frames using using the lug and tube method, like Serotta, Viner Maxima, Parlee's etc

Traditional values - modern materials and designs.

that's probably even easier - just need to add a CAD & CNC specialist into the previous mix..

cal_stewart

maybe its their long term plan? They might want to build the brand first.

Evil Laugh

I like the styling of the bikes. I like the print on the inside of the forks.

I wish more manufacturers would steer away from their gaudy graphics and identikit red-white-black/carbon paintjobs.

There's not a lot of choice if you want something a little subtle but affordable.

I can see the issues with not being able to try the bikes and the whole Chinese frame thing.

He should really offer the option to have one in your size to try at a yard/workshop in London or wherever he builds them. Personally I would never buy a >£1000 bike without testing it first, no matter how good a deal it seemed.

With regards to the frames, I can see why people would get a little irked at seeing the ebay frames painted up and sold at a premium.

When you think about it though a) Most people who have built these frames up love them. b) He's giving you a 3 year guarantee on the bike and a 14 day money back guarantee if you don't want it, so no hassle dealing with some distributor in China if things go wrong. c) You're getting a decent selection of parts on the built up bikes. d) You're getting a nice paint job on the frame that would cost you a fair bit and an original looking bike. e) You're getting it built for you

Give the guy a break.

Good luck to him and if things take off hopefully he can source some more originally shaped bikes and offer better component prices.

PeteinSQ

I emailed him and he said you can try out the bikes at a shop called cycleworx in Wandsworth

http://www.cycleworx.co.uk/

I might go and have a look when I get over my cold.

Pross

Think Dream bikes in Wales build carbon frames. I believe they are built by Jeff Bruce who together with Nelson used to supply pretty much every custom built steel bike in South Wales in the late 80's / early 90's.

EDIT Talking crap again - they import and build the same as the others! They do however build bespoke aluminium / carbon composite frames.

will75

A few words about making frame sin the UK, Steel and thats it.
It cracks me up when people bang on about 'it should be made in the UK' if it was you'd moaning about how expensive it was, llok at half the shit you wear, use and buy, it isn't made in the UK, sad but true.
You want a nice lugged steel frame, yep no problem.
Giant mancp, dude shut up. Guys have been building bike frames in the UK for donkeys years, Mercian, Holdsworth etc etc and they cost alot, exactly what they are worth.
As for carbon made in the far east, well if it works why not and as for a new bike company selling them albeit to there own design, good on them and good luck.

top_bhoy

PeteinSQ wrote:

One other thing that occurred to me was that there is still room in this market for someone supplying almost the same thing as Ribble. We know this from seeing how long people have to wait for their Ribble bikes to turn up.

It didn't occur to me Its too easy to say because Ribble has long lead times, others can fill that gap. There will be a finite output capacity from the Tawainese factories which will constrain the number of frames which can be supplied to the UK market regardless of whether there are 2, 4, 6, etc importers