Compulsory swine flu vaccination?

Mothyman

.... the local pigs in the field near my house were looking a bit edgy when i cycled past today.... i thought i heard one oinking about getting a seasonal flu jab off the farmer....

1footedninja

Here's uncyclopedias take on things: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Swine_flu

Seanos

1footedninja wrote:

Long-winded rant

Could you summarise whatever points you think you are making, briefly, in a couple of paragraphs for me? It might help if you do it when you're not tripping.

1footedninja

Seanos articulates through grunts and squeels

more inane pigswill

Yeah here's the points thread hijacker:

8) “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” 8)

8) your possibly right now on medication either self medicated or prescribed, if not, you should be 8)

no one can ever complain about you being predictable...

you were right , back at life's too short... and now your just coming across as someone with a bruised ego... I recommend you take this jab for that and take these tablets three times a day for two weeks after, no don't worry the only side effects will be that your IQ might increase and your knuckles will not drag along the floor.

I tip my hat to you sir and bid you farewell.
Good luck with the vaccinations, good luck with the full frontal lobotomy reversal.

Cunobelin

Its a personal choice, but I don't know of a single medic having it!

Previous history is not encouraging and the rush, along with the unusual step in cnada to exempt Roche from prosecution over any side effects are not ging to be of great reassurance either

[quote The 70%- 90% claims of vaccine efficacy, this is both wrong and misleading……and refers only to the ability of the vaccine to produce antibodies effective against the virus. But this is not the important measure of vaccine efficacy. Instead, we should measure the ability of the vaccine to prevent clinical disease, in this case influenza. By this measure, vaccine efficacy is no greater than 25%.”[/quote]

Mass influenza vaccination in Ontario. Vittorio Demicheli: Rebuttal — responds to Dr. Schabas: Canadian Medical Association Journal • January 9, 2001; 164 (1)

As well as availability, safety of an H1N1 vaccine is a
concern. Many national regulatory agencies have setup
fast-track approval processes for the H1N1 vaccine,
which means that a vaccine might be licensed without
the usual safety and efficacy data requirements. Vaccine
safety will therefore have to be monitored through postmarketing
surveillance. But some fear a repeat of the
1976 H1N1 outbreak in the USA, where mass vaccination
was associated with complications, which stopped the
campaign and led to the withdrawal of the vaccine.

Lancet editroial August 2009

There are already WHO alerts over some neurological side effects of the vaccines.

Cunobelin

Porgy wrote:

Pross wrote:

Can anyone cite a proven case of mass problems caused by vaccination against any illness? .

On Panaroma a month or two ago - a Swine flu special - they described an account of a small number of people left paralyised in mid 70s United States after being administered the vaccine against a form of swine flu then causing concern in the US.

If I get time I might try to google up some details.

Called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) and is the subject of the WHO reporting alerts.

Seanos

1footedninja wrote:

8) your ignorance makes me laugh 8)

You link to Prison Planet and then call me ignorant? Heh.

1footedninja wrote:

I mean really laugh, big belly laughs, full on chortles and gaffaws.

We both know that's not true.

Seanos

Cunobelin wrote:

There are already WHO alerts over some neurological side effects of the vaccines.

Wow, that sounds scary. Sounds like the WHO have issued alerts over the vaccines. Care to provide a link? Or perhaps you are just referring to the the WHO Global Alert & Response for epidemics here:

http://www.who.int/csr/en/

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/en/

And here's some FAQs they put together on vaccine safety:

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu ... index.html

Cressers

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?opt ... 05&lang=en

daviesee

My wife is an NHS community nurse and she has refused to take it.

For the past 10 years I have deliberately doing the opposite of Government advice and every reversal has worked out for the better :twisted:

Why the panic over swine flu when the general flu has been the cause of more fatalities?

Too many people conuse the flu with the common cold :evil:

Sympathies to those who have genuinely had either the general flu or swine flu.

Pross

1footedninja wrote:

Seanos articulates through grunts and squeels

more inane pigswill

Yeah here's the points thread hijacker:

8) “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” 8)
8) your possibly right now on medication either self medicated or prescribed, if not, you should be 8)

no one can ever complain about you being predictable...

you were right , back at life's too short... and now your just coming across as someone with a bruised ego...

I tip my hat to you sir and bid you farewell.
Good luck with the vaccinations, good luck with the full frontal lobotomy reversal.

:shock: You must be deadly then!

dsmiff

I'm off on Monday to get the swine flu jab for both me and my son, we both suffer from asthma. Have been offered ther seasonal flu jab as well, but not sure about having it at the same time.

Been knocked out by flu before which developed into pneumoniaa - not plesent and as swine flu seems to cause respiritory issues I'm taking no risks.

I'll post again on Tuesday to let you know if I survived.

Pross

You have to make sure you do now or someone will use it as evidence that you didn't make it and then, if you post a day later, it will be some Government conspiracy to make us think you are safe and well!

TommyEss

nottscobb wrote:

Vaccines have a history of much worse, I'm thinking Thalidomide here.

Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine - it was a drug to help combat morning sickness.

At the time, scientists didn't understand that the two different enantiomers would interact differently - essentially only half of the dose caused the problems in expectant mothers.

So now both enantiomers are tested separately - and if needs be, they can be separated (though this is costly, so is only done when required)

Thalidomide is actually being investigated and trialled again as a cancer drug.

As for this swine flu vaccine - well essentially it's the same as the seasonal flu vaccine administered every winter to thousands of at risk people with very little problem. In terms of ingredients, it's the same - the only difference is that they had to isolate the swine flu virus, and not a seasonal flu virus.

But they have to isolate a new strain every year - so what's the difference? The only "rush" on this was that they had to isolate the strain ASAP instead of having nearly a year to do it (they have to decide which strain to use each year - there are any number of flu strains out there, and essentially the agencies have to hedge their bets a little bit and decide which one is most likely to cause problems - using historic epidemiological data)

The manufacturing process is identical - but again, instead of being able to process over a year, they've had a much shorter time frame - that doesn't mean anyone's cutting corners - it just means people have been working night and day to help!

If you'd normally be offered the seasonal flu vaccine - young, old, asthma etc - then take the swine flu vaccine too - if you wouldn't normally, then you're not particularly at risk of any flu, regardless of where the virus has come from.

Remember - more people die every year from seasonal flu than have died so far from swine flu - and remember that despite the name, influenza is a very robust virus that regularly mutates - that's what it does - this is just another in a long line of mutations.

LangerDan

Cressers wrote:

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=663:mandatory-vaccination-theoretically-possible-un-uk-government-admits&catid=41:highlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

That site is priceless! Swine flu is part of an Illuminati conspriacy? Who'da thunk?

I'm considering printing it out, putting Dan Brown's name on the cover and waiting for the cash to roll in.

This time next year, Rodders..........

1footedninja

Pross wrote:

:shock: You must be deadly then!

Yeah! I am as deadly as a onefootedninja... obivously

going to get my snoring jab today and whilst I'm there I think I will get my swine flu jab...the wife always says I snore like a pig anyway...

DaveyL

TommyEss wrote:

nottscobb wrote:

Vaccines have a history of much worse, I'm thinking Thalidomide here.

Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine - it was a drug to help combat morning sickness.

At the time, scientists didn't understand that the two different enantiomers would interact differently - essentially only half of the dose caused the problems in expectant mothers.

So now both enantiomers are tested separately - and if needs be, they can be separated (though this is costly, so is only done when required)

Thalidomide is actually being investigated and trialled again as a cancer drug.

To further complicate matters, it's my understanding that the enantiomers can interconvert under physiological conditions in the case of Thalidomide...

jimmypippa

I am not entirely sure what the purpose of the conspiracy is supposed to be.

Why would the government decide to just help a small number of companies in one sector of industry? Even if they are, what is supposed to be the benefit to the company in actually getting people to take up the vaccine? As far as I am aware, the courses of vaccine are already ordered, and will be paid for anyway.

The simplest explanation is the obvious one: that swine flu is dangerous (to an as-yet unknown level) and that the best guess of the public health professionals is that public vaccination is the best defense against a debilitating pandemic.

Seanos

jimmypippa wrote:

I am not entirely sure what the purpose of the conspiracy is supposed to be.

Ah but you're making the classic mistake of thinking about it rationally. What you have to do is suspend your critical faculties, spend years reading nutjob conspiracy websites and develop some paranoid fantasies. It'll all make sense then.

1footedninja

Or, just stay rational and pick and choose what you wish to believe or not believe, then you get to see how unrational views from people like Seanos are. And how this person seems to get to their conclusions through their unrationality. Then it might make sense but then again it might not.

Gotte

Seanos wrote:

Only worth reading if you're interested in half truths, misrepresentation of facts, uninformed speculation and outright wrongness.

Haven't got time to look at it in much detail but skimming through it's the usual anti-vaxx propaganda from the type of people who believe that 'natural' is better, forgetting that nature killed and maimed us in our millions with preventable diseases such as smallpox, TB, polio, influenza, measles etc etc.

It's scaremongering of the worst sort and only worth ignoring.

Beyond the reasons any vaccine is risky

- but less risky than the illnesses they protect against

this one has special risk factors

- oh really?

First, it will not undergo the usual safety testing prior to being made available

- wrong

The various versions of the new vaccine (each contracted pharmaceutical giant is producing its own proprietary cocktail) are currently undergoing perfunctory testing on human volunteers, but as the full effects on health may not be known for months or even years, the fact these tests will run for around six weeks before the mass vaccination programmes begin offers little reassurance

- wrong

It has been reported that the GSK swine flu vaccine contains thimerosol

- really?

that's mercury to you and me.

- complete wrongness of a magnitude I can scarcely comprehend. Thimerosal is mercury in the same way that table salt is sodium.

Worse still, GSK's vaccine will also contain squalene, and it isn't alone in that, either.

- oh noes!!111!!!! Killer squalenes are coming!!!1111!!

Squalene is an adjuvant (a substance added to exaggerate the immune system's response to the viral material in a vaccine)

- very nearly correct

of extremely dubious track record.

- wrong

Another way to describe an exaggerated immune response is "autoimmune disease"

<head><desk><head><desk>

and squalene has already been implicated in causing just that.It is believed to be the main culprit behind Gulf War Syndrome (which shows up as arthritis, chronic fatigue, multiple sclerosis and/or many other debilitating autoimmune conditions and symptoms), after it was included in experimental anthrax vaccines given to soldiers in the early 1990s.

- sigh

If you are worried, speak to someone who knows what they are talking about. Like a GP. If you think that Big Pharma and the government want to inject you with 'teh eviel viruses' for fun/profit/mind control, then you might want to readjust your grip on reality.

+1+1+1+1+...

Gotte

I was on Mumsnet recently (Don;t ask why, I try not to), and with regards the swine flu jab, there were people there citing David Icke as a credible authoity as to why not to have the jab.
Now that is scary.

Here's the link. Check out the images. Makes the Daily Sport look like the Readers' Digest.

http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/25191

ride_whenever

DaveyL wrote:

TommyEss wrote:

nottscobb wrote:

Vaccines have a history of much worse, I'm thinking Thalidomide here.

Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine - it was a drug to help combat morning sickness.

At the time, scientists didn't understand that the two different enantiomers would interact differently - essentially only half of the dose caused the problems in expectant mothers.

So now both enantiomers are tested separately - and if needs be, they can be separated (though this is costly, so is only done when required)

Thalidomide is actually being investigated and trialled again as a cancer drug.

To further complicate matters, it's my understanding that the enantiomers can interconvert under physiological conditions in the case of Thalidomide...

Exactly right, they interconvert so would have caused the issues even if the product had been more exactly synthesized. It is now being used to treat leprosy though, except for pregnant lepers. As the *wrong* enantiomer only effect development.

Seanos

1footedninja wrote:

Then it might make sense but then again it might not.

Let me save you straining those synapses. It makes no sense whatsoever.

1footedninja

To you Seanos possibly nothing makes sense or maybe it does. Till the lobotomy reversal goes through nothing can be fully ascertained.

Other people on here they might just get it though, or not. And I'll leave that to them to figure out or not figure out.

In other words , you jump to conclusions and then force those conclusions onto others.

You don't need to save anything for me, let alone do anything for me, or be in on anything with me.

I don't wish to collude with you. Even though you have tried from the beginning by calling me a tinfoil hat wearing loon and suckering me into this boring back and forth p**sing contest, because collusion smacks of conspiracy and its theoretical practice. And I don't want any part of that, where as it seems, you do.

You understand?

Seanos

1footedninja wrote:

You understand?

No. But then I'm not on the same weapons grade hallucinogens as you.

1footedninja

If I was on them, they might make you a hell of alot funnier. At the very least seem to make you more plausible and credible anyway. I doubt it though.

jimmypippa

1footedninja wrote:

And how do you know what I believe in or not believe in ?

I call troll, as the Devil's Advocate had to have a first class mind.


BTW, you aren't annoying me, I just like playing, however I do only write what I mean.

1footedninja wrote:

You must be getting bored with the name calling by now, I know I am - I think I got bored with it soon as you started acting up, maybe possibly thought that its more interesting to well yunno say something new?

Incoherence is not interesting

1footedninja wrote:

possibly even something that has relevance to the thread....

Talking about swine flu vaccine in a thread about swine flu vaccine seems pretty on topic.

Your ramblings are not

1footedninja

You call troll because your obivously one yourself. Or you call it out to goad me into 'seeming' like I am one. Great tactician that you are.

I do not advocate the devil or god and bringing such theological discourse into a 'trying to be' coherent topic of discussion just tells me alot about your state of mind Jimmypippa.

I really don't get your statement about annoyance - It has no relevance. I don't seek to annoy or not annoy, I do seek however to root out informed open debate and let people have their voice and say no matter what they have to say as long as they have some grasp of reality and relevance to this topic of conversation - your comments seem to show the contrary Jimmypippa. In fact all you seem to be doing is picking on me, maybe you like finding scapegoats for your miserable mind to enflict its self upon.

And your the authority on incoherence I see. Would I have to speak gobbledygook for you to understand? Here try these:

The solution can only be balanced management capability.
At base level, this just comes down to compatible administrative capability.
My organisation believes in global asset matrix approaches.
Our exploratory research points to systemised asset options.

Your pure comedy at it's best.

I would love to get back to the topic, people like yourself though just like taking bully boy tactics to undermine others rights to have their say even when they are actually discussing something relevant to a topic of conversation. Because it doesn't fit into your secular viewpoint of how things are or should be does not mean it's not relevant.

Oscar Wilde put it like this : “And he goes through life, his mouth open, and his mind closed”

You get what I'm saying? Surely you must get that, I heavily doubt it though.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you throw a few more 'this person is an idiot' jackbooted quips my way. Like internet trolls do.

Maybe we could errrr... get back to the thread....

Here's Wiki's take on things : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza

and other viewpoints : http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/2009/04/swine-flu-origins-traced-to-washington.html

http://top10kid.com/2009/05/01/top-10-possible-origins-of-the-swine-flu/

http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=China+denies+being+flu+origin&NewsID=2674

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/swine-flu/6467984/People-will-die-after-swine-flu-vaccine---but-its-just-coincidence.html

http://mashable.com/2009/04/25/track-swine-flu/

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2009/swine-flu-latest-visualized/

http://www.naturalnews.com/027365_flu_shot_clinical_trials_shots.html

http://www.fleshandstone.net/healthandsciencenews/1662.html

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1354%3Agerman-dcotors-refuse-to-be-bullied-by-authorities-into-giving-qswine-fluq-jab&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en

http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-epidemiologist-slams-swine-flu-fearmongering.html

http://rense.com/general86/doct.htm

http://www.naturalnews.com/026613_swine_flu_vaccines_pandemic.html

http://newswithviews.com/Tips/scott101.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_references_to_pigs

•Themis-god of thought
•Epimetheus-god of afterthought
•Prometheus-god of beforethought
•Hephaestus-god of mechanics

Greek theologically a-speaking.

Seanos

1footedninja wrote:

I do seek however to root out informed open debate

Informed?? Can you let me have your address please, you just made my ironymeter explode and I need to send you the repair bill.