Compulsory swine flu vaccination?

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  • I've refused to have mine. Even though I've looked after a couple of pt's now who have died from it i'll go without the jab for now I think.
    Bianchi. There are no alternatives only compromises!
    I RIDE A KONA CADABRA -would you like to come and have a play with my magic link?
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    Only worth reading if you're interested in half truths, misrepresentation of facts, uninformed speculation and outright wrongness.

    Haven't got time to look at it in much detail but skimming through it's the usual anti-vaxx propaganda from the type of people who believe that 'natural' is better, forgetting that nature killed and maimed us in our millions with preventable diseases such as smallpox, TB, polio, influenza, measles etc etc.

    It's scaremongering of the worst sort and only worth ignoring.
    Beyond the reasons any vaccine is risky
    - but less risky than the illnesses they protect against
    this one has special risk factors
    - oh really?
    First, it will not undergo the usual safety testing prior to being made available
    - wrong
    The various versions of the new vaccine (each contracted pharmaceutical giant is producing its own proprietary cocktail) are currently undergoing perfunctory testing on human volunteers, but as the full effects on health may not be known for months or even years, the fact these tests will run for around six weeks before the mass vaccination programmes begin offers little reassurance
    - wrong
    It has been reported that the GSK swine flu vaccine contains thimerosol
    - really?
    that's mercury to you and me.
    - complete wrongness of a magnitude I can scarcely comprehend. Thimerosal is mercury in the same way that table salt is sodium.
    Worse still, GSK's vaccine will also contain squalene, and it isn't alone in that, either.
    - oh noes!!111!!!! Killer squalenes are coming!!!1111!!
    Squalene is an adjuvant (a substance added to exaggerate the immune system's response to the viral material in a vaccine)
    - very nearly correct
    of extremely dubious track record.
    - wrong
    Another way to describe an exaggerated immune response is "autoimmune disease"
    <head><desk><head><desk>
    and squalene has already been implicated in causing just that.It is believed to be the main culprit behind Gulf War Syndrome (which shows up as arthritis, chronic fatigue, multiple sclerosis and/or many other debilitating autoimmune conditions and symptoms), after it was included in experimental anthrax vaccines given to soldiers in the early 1990s.
    - sigh

    If you are worried, speak to someone who knows what they are talking about. Like a GP. If you think that Big Pharma and the government want to inject you with 'teh eviel viruses' for fun/profit/mind control, then you might want to readjust your grip on reality.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Cressers wrote:

    Any article that begins with "if you have been relying on the mainstream media for information about..." automatically loses about 10 credibility points in one fell swoop. Oh noes it's a mainstream media conspiracy!111!

    Because I'd much rather get my information from a half-baked amateur website with an obvious agenda to push. :roll:

    When did it become so fashionable to scaremonger about vaccinations? I don't get it.
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    edited October 2009
    adapted from the play by Gerald P. Walterburger 1664 - gnosis trip 52 B.CB (before chocolate biscuits)


    hahahahaha! its all propaganda! left / right / middle - its all the same! just ummm slightly different...

    same face , different mask - whose running the show - covertly / overtly?

    bring on the microchipping and concentration camps... some people will always be first in the queue, no matter what they think...

    got to love pharma-culture, here's a pill, here's a jab, FEAR is the mind killer. I'm all for it and against it at the same time - persuade me otherwise.

    Like a GP is the authoritarian on knowing what there talking about - large wage = knowledge = power
    (of course they are, I wouldnt like to think otherwise....)

    how we laughed in our naivety. Individual expression perfunctory.

    btw your thinking (don't quote me on this one), makes this invasive action against my right to either change my molecular structure or not just another step toward a less free thinking society - please force me into doing something I don't wish too, I am a tax paying citizen of Earth after all.

    how we laughed. but this time not quite sure why...

    The earth is shaped like a doughnut. Prove me wrong or right (you don't have too but it makes for a bit of tete a tete), I've still got to seek shelter & somewhere to rest my head at the end of the day.

    possibly. profit in a way we plebs (figuratively speaking) could never conceive. thinking inside the outside of the box, shhh don't mention the box.

    uninformed and informed, uninformally informally.

    this has nothing to do with the plight of the whales. bloody hippies , bloody governments.

    I blame it on the dead, lets kill them. (yunno , for a change...)

    anyone for a hob-nob? plain or milky?

    enter into TRANCE . <
    here

    enter into TRANCE . <
    here

    subjective / objective, inferred, deference.

    a vaccine against stupidity in all its nefarious disguises including my own

    yeah! you said it mate....

    pass me THE pill , jab me,,, thats better...

    praxis meme to self - need to get the dog wormed and his jab... Pavlov

    'For every complex problem, there is an answer which is short, simple and wrong'.

    H.L. Mencken

    'You are not being 'productive'. You are being busy. There is a big difference'.

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    Achtung! Achtung!

    Congratulations! you receive the George Formby award for it all turning out nice again...


    formbygeorgebio.jpg
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • nottscobb
    nottscobb Posts: 147
    Seanos wrote:
    Beyond the reasons any vaccine is risky
    - but less risky than the illnesses they protect against

    How do you know that the chemicals they inject into you are less risky than the flu?

    I'd say the human immue system does a pretty good job at fending off most illnesses such as flu as long as people eat and exercise properly. Yes, there will be some unlucky ones who don't fight it off but that's the same with most illnesses. Vaccines have a history of much worse, I'm thinking Thalidomide here.
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    Seanos wrote:
    If you are worried, speak to someone who knows what they are talking about. Like a GP. .

    I was with you until then - sort of - if you believe that then you are lucky unlike me - my GP who despite me having had a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome from one of the top experts and an NHS employed psychologist told me that he doesn't believe I have AS - for no particularly good reason as far as I could tell except that it allowed him to not spend some of his budget. :evil:

    He also told me that autism was not a genetically transmitted condition! Ignorant tw@t!!
  • nottscobb wrote:
    Vaccines have a history of much worse, I'm thinking Thalidomide here.

    Thalidomide is not, and never was, a vaccine.

    I believe in a right to choose whether you have the vaccine or not. But articles that try to influence anyone's choice based on speculation and imagination are just wrong.
    No-one wanted to eat Patagonia Toothfish so they renamed it Chilean Sea Bass and now it's in danger of over fishing!
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    How do you know that the chemicals they inject into you are less risky than the flu?
    Epidemiology, immunology, virology. You know, science stuff.
    I'd say the human immue system does a pretty good job at fending off most illnesses such as flu as long as people eat and exercise properly. Yes, there will be some unlucky ones who don't fight it off but that's the same with most illnesses. Vaccines have a history of much worse, I'm thinking Thalidomide here.
    Have you got any idea how many people influenza has killed this century?
    Have you got any idea how the immune system works?
    Have you got any idea how vaccines work?
    Have you got any idea how many lives vaccines have saved?

    Thalidomide was a drug, not a disease. Vaccination doesn't enter into it.
    I was with you until then - sort of - if you believe that then you are lucky unlike me - my GP who despite me having had a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome from one of the top experts and an NHS employed psychologist told me that he doesn't believe I have AS - for no particularly good reason as far as I could tell except that it allowed him to not spend some of his budget
    Porgy, that doesn't sound good but it doesn't make my point invalid. If you want information about vaccinations then don't go looking on quack websites, speak to a healoth care professional. (That definition excludes naturopaths, chiropractors, homeopaths, reflexologists etc etc).

    Apologies for the rant but there's so much absolute BS talked about vaccines at the moment, in the press and on teh interwebs, when the truth is that they're one of the safest and most effective ways of protecting against serious illnesses. This generation has the luxury of taking them for granted and, unfortunately, with MMR for example, it will take a loss of herd immunity and some entirely preventable deaths before people wake up.
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    edited October 2009
    As much as your points / questions are very salient Seanos and they are, I almost believed them myself for all of a few seconds, I nearly almost took that jab as I looked into your cold eyes.... scientific eyes telling me to join you and be like you. a little gentle rub of my arm with alcohol as you did it, the brave soldier routine....

    The truth is there is a bigger picture at work than just a vaccine here.

    And those who go looking for those facts can almost certainly put two and two together to make four or any other integer they want, the fact still remains, there is a bigger picture going on, more than just a vaccine against whatever _____ < insert latest virus / epidemic.

    The real picture is a gradual erosion of your freedom to the point where you will blindly and dumbly accept everything you are told by those in 'powerful' positions and how the chain of command works down towards you through an all pervasive infrastructure that doesn't seek to hide from you , its always been in your face and you choose whether to notice that or not and blindly follow along in your secular world not knowing and seeing a bigger picture.

    And FEAR and borg style - join me, be like me mentality helps in getting us all herded into the hive mind mentality whilst where softly told it cannot happen to us... it only happens to them...oh deary me!

    This will of course be incredulised by some as the stuff of conspiracy and by others it will be followed into without ever knowing the full extent of what is going on. the real agenda.

    We can talk about this vaccine stuff all day but its really a smokescreen.

    So thanks for your delicious examples of fact and oh so debunking of the not so fact.

    I myself know that your ever so right, why would you not be? but you will never convince me that you can possibly know everything, I myself know nothing, except what I know, so for that very fact I choose to not wake up into your dreamworld but stay in my own. Yours makes me think of people as just bodies - nothing more. Ready to be stacked up in piles, data analysed, move along now for your next injection... life / history all over the world shows this to be the real human disease - ourselves and how we treat others as nothing more but meat and bone and 'not us'

    Your right people will wake up, big wide eyes, full of life . Full of energy. strong in their own assertiveness to not blindly accept everything they are told and shown.

    To go...hang on a minute, something quite not right here... and if Im wrong I gladly accept that but I certainly don't want to be force fed anothers view where they believe themselves correct and no other unless that person happens to share the same set of code and ethics , Do you understand that Seanos? of course you do , you seem an intelligent sort of person, lucid , people actually quite like being in control of themselves and to be able to choose what they feel is right or wrong, of course that opens a big can of worms in itself but Im not here to right wrongs and wrong rights. Let alone wrong wrongs and right rights, or something anyway... wait a minute where was I ... oh yeah somewhere around here!

    then again probably not , if it takes just a few to control , doesnt it speak for itself?

    more death. more disease
    more viruses, more vaccines more more more, see a pattern...

    it will still always tell me to 'open here' on my packet of hob-nobs whether I choose to or not.. or something slightly esoterical along the same lines or possibly baffling to some. Maybe even striking a chord within the very souls of those accountable for putting it there...open here...good grief...what has it really come too?
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    1footedninja said:
    some tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense
    Unlike your post, life's too short.

    If you ever decide to rejoin the reality-based community let me know.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Lots

    Really, :roll: . FWIW the drug companies are probably just as powerful as Governments, they are very large corporations, and make a heck of a lot of money. How about a conspiracy where it's the drug companies, who invent/modify the viruses, bacteria and release them into the wild in order to guarantee them a market?
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • touche! and your right - life is too short loving the joke quotey thing,

    seanos:
    gubbins

    wow!

    this is where we start trying to outdo each other and make the other person look foolish ...right? oh wait a min then you could retaliate there with ...no you do that yourself.... badda boom..... oh and the reality based community was wondering where youve been yourself just recently...

    c o c k on fella!

    liberal_moron.jpg
    SEANOSmoron-index-lge311.jpg
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    this is where we start trying to outdo each other and make the other person look foolish ...right?
    No, I think this is the bit where you carry on bashing away at your keyboard in the misguided belief that you are amusing and have something of value to say, whilst remaining oblivious to the irony in being unable to string a few coherent paragraphs together whilst calling someone else a moron.

    I'll leave you to it.
  • or the bit where people see you for who you really are...


    like you say , & I'll even quote, because quotes are fun :

    Seanos wrote
    I'll leave you to it.


    "people who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

    the evidence:
    1footedninja said:
    Quote:
    some tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense


    Unlike your post, life's too short.

    If you ever decide to rejoin the reality-based community let me know.

    because what you have to remember, is that this person is advocating the vaccine. & can't take having silly jibes thrown back at them, although it's fine for them too do that. Like saying I can call you names but you can't call me names, think about that.. like ALSO saying I can talk about pro-vaccine and no-one is allowed to have a differing view let alone talk about it *and this is the funny bit* whether the other person is pro-vaccine or not pro-vaccine* ... next step up is making it compulsory, next after that mandatory with a severe penalty if you do not adhere to the rule-makers, the shut up and know your place routine -ie elitist, *this is how they think* I am above you, I know more than you, you have no right to think your own thoughts, let alone speak them, you will be quelled, you will submit to my thoughts/belief system and my thoughts/belief system alone...........you start to see patterns within history forming here, the kind that lead to mass extermination of people, also known as genocide... and thats how its so easy for a few to run the world
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • Mothyman
    Mothyman Posts: 655
    its quite reasonable to ask or try to find out the reasoning and logic, known risks and possible problems of medication, vaccinations etc before taking them.
    what is tricky is where to find the facts.
  • agreed, which is why we need informed debate and open lines of communication especially from those who are in the know, not in the paid pockets of whichever pusher has the contract, thus then being able to make up our own minds to what we wish to do for our families as well as ourselves.

    I find it fascinating the amount of side effects most common prescribed drugs have, fascinating in the sense you can end up being in a far worse state than you was originally from taking those drugs and then having to take others to counteract the side effects of those others. Not fascinating in the sense that this is human life we are talking about here and the repercussions this has on society as a whole and the individual.

    Look at the many BAYER controversies, for example.

    again though I just want to affirm, it is, that being the original topic of this thread, the swine flu vaccination, a smokescreen in a bigger agenda.

    the power of just talking to others, other placebo ways of self-medication whilst being in an open receptive enviroment can help in that endeavour. to seek those answers that you need. I hope so anyway!

    sometimes facts are not necessary, there is a world of difference between truth, for example, and a fact, as facts can obscure truth. I got that as a quote from somewhere but I don't have the foggiest where...

    and don't we all really just want to be told the truth?

    possibly but probably not. so I'll go on taking EVERYTHING with a pinch of salt. and trying to make my own mind up whilst I'm doing it without being told how I should do it.

    oh, and because, we / I / they / that guy over there looking all studious twiddling his thumbs and stroking his beard, love our whacko nutjob half baked tinfoil hat theories on here, get your chompers into this article : http://www.prisonplanet.com/swine-flu-attack-likely-a-beta-test.html

    oh and this one : http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Swineflu/DG_177831

    oink! oink!
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    Mothyman wrote:
    its quite reasonable to ask or try to find out the reasoning and logic, known risks and possible problems of medication, vaccinations etc before taking them.
    what is tricky is where to find the facts.
    Agreed. Here's a good place to start:

    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-f ... ?WT.srch=1

    It's worthwhile remembering that there are thousands of nutters on teh interwebs who are convinced that vaccines are mind control agents of the lizard people, you can cure cancer with coffee enemas and that big pharma is trying to suppress homeopathy because they know it is a panacea for all disease and would put them out of business.

    Fortunately, the real world is more prosaic so you can safely ignore them.
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    No one actually knows the true extent of Swine Flu in the UK, as, as of the first couple of weeks, people were diagnosed over the bloody phone.

    As the symptoms are not dissimilar to the bloody cold/normal flu, you can't give a diagnosis over the phone. Swine flu has been hyped up to a massive level by the press and the Government, yet until each and everyone that is suspected of swine flu actually has a blood test to see if they have got it (and that will never happen).

    Is there a real problem with swine flu in the UK, no-one knows. Is it actually any worse than seasonal flu, again no-one can say. If the number of people that have supposedly contracted swine flu are anything to go by, then it is nowhere near as bad as seasonal flu (which kills in higher numbers).

    People are not forced to take a seasonal flu vaccine, why should swine flu be any different, not that I believe you can actually force people to be injected against their will.

    My company offers the flu vaccine every year, I have always refused it, the first year they offered it, I was called stupid, yet there was a large number of those that had it, and were then ill the following week. They now refuse it as well, they have said the risk of catching the flu is remote enough not to worry.
  • Cressers
    Cressers Posts: 1,329
    Though it may well be the case that the Govt has panicked and stockpiled too many vaccines for a flu strain that is not all it's cracked up to be. How to avoid this potemntial embarrassment? Hype the panic, cajole or enforce vaccination to use up the surplus stocks and while you're at it, use the opportunity to reinforce your control over the population.

    http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/primary-care/ ... 74.article

    How long before encouragement becomes compulsion?
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    My wife will probably have it, as she is a HSA in a Children's Centre, and is more likely to come in contact with Swine flu. She has already had the seasonal flu jab.

    I think those in high risk areas it is a good idea to take it, but for the general population it should be merely a choice.
  • Cressers
    Cressers Posts: 1,329
    "merely a choice"
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 42,198
    Jeez there's some conspiracy theorists on here. Does anyone really believe the Government will be prepared to complete their electoral suicide and the potential costs of fighting millions of cases of human rights issues just because some site from an organic organisation says so?

    Can anyone cite a proven case of mass problems caused by vaccination against any illness? People go on about MMR but there's no proven link whereas the serious side affects of measles in particular are well documented - could it be that links to autism rates are more down to the fact that GP's are now recognising autism for what it is when in the past it would have been dismissed as a child "being naughty"?

    I'll be having the swine flu jab along with my wife and daughter as my daughter's immune system is low due to her chemo and we need to stay as healthy as possible as her carers.

    How many vaccines have we all had over the years and how many of us have been made ill by them or even know anyone who has? OK we may not know many / any people who have become seriously ill from an illness we can vaccinate against but I'm sure older people will remember serious problems of TB.

    I agree we should all be free to make up our own minds but I know which way I'll be going unless anyone can offer an irrefutable case that a vaccine is unsafe.
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    Cressers wrote:
    Though it may well be the case that the Govt has panicked and stockpiled too many vaccines for a flu strain that is not all it's cracked up to be. How to avoid this potemntial embarrassment? Hype the panic, cajole or enforce vaccination to use up the surplus stocks and while you're at it, use the opportunity to reinforce your control over the population.
    That may well be the case. But on the other hand, it's pure speculation and almost certainly complete BS, unless you have some evidence to back it up. Which you don't.
  • http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/oct/06/glaxosmithkline-swine-flu-vaccine-orders

    make of it what you want.

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/55351.php

    http://preventdisease.com/news/09/072709_swine.shtml

    its all about the benjamin's. it's all about control of the human through fear.

    I got my vaccine the other day , I feel so much better...
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 42,198
    What I make of that is that Governments are genuinely concerned about the risk of flu and they want to ensure they have plenty of stocks for when the general public start panicking if the mortality rates from flu / swine flu accelerate. Can you imagine the uproar if there are insufficient vaccines available if needed?
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    Pross wrote:
    Can anyone cite a proven case of mass problems caused by vaccination against any illness? .

    On Panaroma a month or two ago - a Swine flu special - they described an account of a small number of people left paralyised in mid 70s United States after being administered the vaccine against a form of swine flu then causing concern in the US.

    If I get time I might try to google up some details.
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    From the 2nd para of the Prevent Diease website linked to by 1footedninja:
    In late April, sources close to investigative journalist Wayne Madsen reported that the outbreak of swine flu was the result of the introduction of a human-engineered pathogen capable of producing a widespread global pandemic. “A top scientist for the United Nations, who has examined the outbreak of the deadly Ebola virus in Africa, as well as HIV/AIDS victims, concluded that H1N1 possesses certain transmission ‘vectors’ that suggest that the new flu strain has been genetically-manufactured as a military biological warfare weapon,” Madsen reported.

    Thankfully I can happily ignore the rest of the site as it's obviously complete f****** b******.

    I don't normally have a problem with conspiracy theorists as it's nice for teenage boys an men who choose to live with their mums to have a hobby. It becomes problematic when they try to influence the decisions people make about their own health.

    Luckily (as above) most of the stuff they churn out is such laughable old cobblers that people don't pay any attention, but sometimes it's a bit more plausible (but just as wrong) and it gains a bit of traction. The mainstream press are just as bad - the way the Mail and the Express misreported and scaremongered over the HPV vaccine was shocking.
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    edited October 2009
    Just as shocking is how easy it is to dismiss anything you see or hear because you feel 'that you are right' about something and then perceive everything through that reality tunnel and are then not prepared to even think about other viewpoints.

    Just because I do not agree with you does not mean I will not take into account what you have to say. Even if you are right and wrong at the same time.

    You really do seem to have a problem with those you label as conspiracy theorists Seanos, even taking the time to stereotype character fit what you perceive conspiracy theorists to be like. This is not really the actions of someone who wishes to discuss a topic of conversation by being open and receptive. In fact I personally feel it shows you as closed minded and have a hidden agenda here yourself probably along the lines of Global domination like in RISK, and I always play to win, mein fraulein.

    Oh gosh I just stereotyped there myself, how shocking of me!

    In my opinion, what is the media there to do except cause scaremongering. When and how often do you see happy stories, for example, ones where people get well after being violently sick, where a happy event happens and the like, when are these reported and actually take precedence over other more pressing seen as important news by those who control this very form of media, the gatekeepers as they are often referred to. Tot it up and its mostly in some shape or form some type of fear that we all have to deal with (or something to avert you completely from that thru the medium of celebrity), those living in the real world anyway, like myself.

    Its all well and good for us to be sat in our comfortable homes discussing this and that and putting the world to rights,, until it happens to us anyway and then we scream for justice, something to be done, and the chances are mostly it falls on deaf ears(I find knowing sign language helps in these cases). You might just decide to change your mind then..

    Of course I wish anyone the best who are having to deal with such things as swine flu in a detrimental way all the best and hope for the best for them and theirs. I know myself through work screenings that it can be a good thing especially if you know you are a person who tends to contract illnesses and diseases alot easier than others. And it can also be a shower of s**t if it just comes out the blue.

    I am more than the sum of my occupational title and what I wish to or not wish to consume.Thanks.

    If a placebo effect of making you feel more in control of yourself and your immediate enviroment, socially (the milieu) and physically works then I'm all for it. Just sometimes it doesn't.

    Knee jerk reactions such as those caused by panic and fear do not resolve issues and in some instances just exacerbate other more important problems and issues, even those that people are not entirely aware of who choose to take all their information fed to them via and within the mainstream media. More than one way to skin a cat comes to mind. And I am quite aware of all the connotations of the meaning of the adage and its etymology.

    I like to think of the blinkers used on a horse to restrict its vison to a path in front of it and limit its peripheral sight. Think of it as a whimsy of mine if that helps you to vent your own spleen. As much as they can be seen as a good thing for horses, and aid in keeping the horse focused on what is in front of itself, Would you yourself like to go about your daily life wearing them? Sometimes we , metaphorically speaking, do just that. Yes, we really do, argue the toss over that if you want, still doesn't change the point I'm trying to convey which is that unless you look at a bigger picture sometimes rather than what your tunnel vision allows you to see then you ain't in no position to think you know what anything is about. Ooo Argh. To put it another way, we live in a macro / micro world. Most of the time anyway. I'm probably wrong about that. But then I'm not professing to be right either... ya dig?

    sometimes it has to get a whole lot worse before it starts getting better. If it ever does. Which I guess it does, possibly.
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.
  • Seanos
    Seanos Posts: 301
    Just as shocking is how easy it is to dismiss anything you see or hear because you feel 'that you are right' about something and then perceive everything through that reality tunnel and are then not prepared to even think about other viewpoints.
    I thought carefully about the viewpoint that swine flu was a gentically engineered biological weapon. For a good 2 or 3 seconds until it became glaringly obvious that there were no credible sources or evidence for this viewpoint and that the website you linked to was the usual conspiracy filled waste of bandwidth.

    I skimmed through the rest of your post but got bored, although there was something about how I'm closed minded. Presumably you think this because I refuse to believe all the improbable stuff you that you believe in. Call me old fashioned but I prefer solid evidence instead of accepting what some internet random nutjob with a bit of cyberspace to scrawl on reckons.

    I've got some magic beans for sale, do you want to buy them?
  • 1footedninja
    1footedninja Posts: 269
    edited October 2009
    This is going back to the bit where we just call each other names, right?

    Your arguements are well thought out and constructed but lack any kind of empathy except for mockery and debasement of others and you can't even do that properly..

    It doesnt really matter what we both think - you must be able to even grasp that.

    And how do you know what I believe in or not believe in ?

    *you don't take time with anything to even see that - such is your reality tunnel and its ability to not notice the glaringly obivous*

    My viewpoint is that I neither agree nor disagree with anything I actually put here. And anything I actually read from others I take in and internalise, think about a bit then either take on board or decide that yes maybe that person does actually have a good point of view there but they might slightly be misguided, it could even be I'm misguided myself, I'm the first to hold up my hand in regards to that! - could you be that misguided person also Seanos? I use this ability of mine, I wouldn't even call it an ability more rather instinctual to engaging other fellow human beings in open discussion, to be able to think objectively, to 'open' discourse with others rather than settling for mediocre banal putdowns of the sort you employ Seanos, as well as trite old hat grumbles of how you find such n such person an annoyance to you and that you are correct and nobody else is and well its just all sort of 'closed' minded.

    Makes for very samey uninteresting 'heard it all before' type of meanderings , the very same 'heard it all before' meanderings you abhor yourself , just with a different take on things. We ain't re-inventing the wheel here are we... not even trying to come up with something new either by the look's of things.

    Do you not think?

    no, I mean really think, not what you have been told or even told to think, but what you really think. Like not blindly accepting 'solid evidence' as ad verbatim and seeing that sometimes you need to give thought to the tangible and the intangible then join the dots yourself - its called coming to your own conclusion and involves taking solid evidence as well as evidence that is considered as less solid but none the less just as important. It means holding more than one point of view or take on things including those that you oppose and those that oppose you and is considered the sign of an intelligent person.(somehow).

    Magic beans - *chuckles* just in time for panto hey!, guess your playing the back end of the horse again, just like always...... but hey! its a good part, plenty of opportunities to really push the boat out and give it all you got via your spoken lines... out the back end.

    You must be getting bored with the name calling by now, I know I am - I think I got bored with it soon as you started acting up, maybe possibly thought that its more interesting to well yunno say something new?

    possibly even something that has relevance to the thread....
    'since the flaming telly's been taken away, we don't even know if the Queen of Englands gone off with the dustman'.
    Lizzie Birdsworth, Episode 64, Prisoner Cell Block H.