Compact vs. Standard
Comments
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giantsasquatch wrote:. Marathon runners don't have strong hearts
I give you that one. I admit I shot myself in the foot with that remark without elaborating from the beginning fully
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Lol @ sasquatch and this thread.0
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Why is it marathon runners look skinny? Because they got less muscle and fat on them. You build muscle against resistance. You build a stronger heart against resistance. Just because they can run far doesn't mean there heart is super strong.
You must think despite there skinniness, little muscle, they must have this huge muscular heart lol
Endurance athletes, marathon runners drop dead after long exercise. I am suggesting it is because there heart is weak and other possible factors such as bad diet etc. etc. If they did resistance training or intense exercise then that would keep there heart stronger and so healthier. When you work harder, more blood returns to your heart, and this increased amount of blood fills the inside of your heart and stretches it, so your heart has to pump against greater resistance and so the heart muscle becomes stronger.You also build stronger muscle by tearing the fibres caused by working harder!
Exercising at a casual pace such as steady state cardio ie. marathon running does not do much to strengthen your heart or your skeletal muscles.
A bigger heart is what we after at the end of the day, to supply more oxygen to the muscles.0 -
The extra muscle energy you conserved going up the hill in a higher cadence using a compact, means you can use it later on to win sprints.0
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AllTheGear wrote:
I live in a flat area and can average a cadence in the 90's, over 20 miles, using the 50T ring only. As I'm never in the 25T spocket I could do that with a 53T ring as well. So makes no difference to me at all.
Yes but come the hills the compact gives the opportunity to do a higher cadence. So with the energy they conserved on the hills, they could well beat you on the flats, the compact can do high enough big gear on the flat.0 -
keef66 wrote:so you're suggesting that out there is a death certificate that says "Cause of death:-incorrect gear selection"?
Of course i didn't mean due to incorrect gear selection but it's related. Going up a hill in a too high gear put's a bigger strain on the heart. If there are problems with the heart, it exasperates it.0 -
AllTheGear wrote:giantsasquatch wrote:Marathon runners don't have strong biceps because they run at one speed.
You don't get strong biceps from running. lol. Way to get strong biceps is to lift weights. Generally marathon runners are weak physically when it comes to lifting weights.0 -
shisaa wrote:As for the gearing you use to get the magical cadence of 90+, that could be done with a compact, or with a standard, depending on your sprocket, strength and terrain.
Yes, you can do high cadence with a double too of course, but you get the best of both worlds with a compact.
If you ride where it's hilly get the compact and become the next Roger Millar.
I rest my case.0 -
I have a compact on one bike and a triple on the other.
As I've got stronger, I've found the compact to be really inconvenient with far more front derailleur use than on the triple - indeed for my rides I use the triple as a standard double and it seems quicker. It also means I don't wear out the soft large cogs on those expensive cassettes. So I remain unconvinced. A triple for me any time I'm afraid.0 -
Well a downside of the triple is the extra weight.
Another problem with triple is some of the gears are repeated and you can be forced to use a long rear cage.
You should avoid certain combination of gears, it creates more cassette and chain wear.0 -
Lol @ sasquatch and this thread +10
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With the compact setup recommended on the first page, there is less big jumps between the gears.
Hands up for a compact?0 -
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giantsasquatch wrote:Of course i didn't mean due to incorrect gear selection but it's related. Going up a hill in a too high gear put's a bigger strain on the heart. If there are problems with the heart, it exasperates it.
Except you'll get a higher heartrate with a high cadence, at least in my experience.0 -
@a_n_t
Just my little joke. But i put up alot evidence to support compacts. I don't see as much or more evidence for doubles do you? The fact is compacts take a different kind of training which mere mortals are not prepared to do.
Are you a sheep? lol0 -
ride_whenever wrote:Except you'll get a higher heartrate with a high cadence, at least in my experience.
A high heartrate can cause hypertension and other problems if heart not healthy. Of course you don't undertake a heavier exercise plan unless you know your heart healthy from your doctor. Sudden heavy exertion is bad.0 -
giantsasquatch wrote:i put up alot evidence to support compacts. I don't see as much or more evidence for doubles do you?
I have a compact with an 11-23 cassette.
A 39-27 would be lower than my 34:23.
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FWIW I bought a bike with a compact this year, my first experience of them in 35 years of riding. The fact that i headed straight off to the Pyrenees coloured my view, but I loved it! I really appreciated the lower gears even though I'm a reasonible climber. Back home I don't really miss the top end (I've now got 50x12 v 53x12).
The biggest difference (if you want lower gears and retain the top end) is you inevitably get bigger jumps between gears. If you live somewhere flattish you're better off with a standard setup but Im' not going back at the moment.0 -
A high, but not excessive, heartrate strengthens the heart. You don't strengthen the heart by doing 3x10 reps at the gym. Marathon runners might have very little fast-twitch muscle and low BMI, but they will have strong hearts.
Spinning up hills does not save energy, AFAIK. It uses slow twitch muscle instead of fast. This means that when you come to sprint, you haven't knackered your legs up already.0 -
giantsasquatch wrote:....Exercising at a casual pace such as steady state cardio ie. marathon running does not do much to strengthen your heart or your skeletal muscles....
I doubt there are many, if any marathon runners who only run at a 'steady state cardio'. I haven't read the whole thread, but you seem to be suggesting that marathon runners have unhealthy hearts. Do you run? Have you ever run? Do you think that e.g. Gebrselassie was running at a 'steady state cardio' when he set the world marathon record?
What's this got to do with having a compact chainset anyway!?
:roll: :?More problems but still living....0 -
A little learning be a dangerous thing.
There's no doubting Giant Kumquat's enthusiasm for a subject, be it compact chainsets, training regimes, the effect of cadence, or sports / muscle physiology, but I have some nagging doubts about:
whether English is his (her?) first language
whether this is at all serious or just energetic trolling
whether he (she?) has any scientific training / understanding.
Everything I have read so far would be worthy of a News of the World science correspondent.0 -
Lol, nicely put.
Clearly English isn't his first language but I doubt that matters, what does matter is post after post after post of what is quite clearly complete BS contrived from reading far too much from too many sources and then coming to an inaccurate opinion.
Essentially he is saying the fitter you are from an aerobic POV you are, the smaller and weaker your heart. Roflcopter. Only pumping iron will give you a big heart.....lol....body builders are the most unfit athletes out there at pro level (possibly excluding sumo?), death waiting to happen.
Who is this guy?
And I started roading on a compact and changed very quickly to a standard double, no comparison for useablility as far as I am concerned, and as per using my single speed winter bike, I am sure my fitness etc have improved as a result, as opposed to it being worse for me in the eyes of the great sasquatch.0 -
giantsasquatch wrote:The fact is compacts take a different kind of training which mere mortals are not prepared to do.
WTF?0 -
fact is that the one thing this thread is conspicuously devoid of is facts.
WTF sums it all up very succinctly!0 -
DVV wrote:Spinning up hills does not save energy, AFAIK. It uses slow twitch muscle instead of fast. This means that when you come to sprint, you haven't knackered your legs up already.
I am referring to muscle energy and saving your muscles. If you grind up the hill then you use up some of the fast as well. By conserving your fast you can use it in sprints. I been talking about saving your muscles all along.0 -
Ok you want some little proof...I am a sports physiotherapist and physiologist, and have been concerned for years that bike manufacturers have not downsized road/hybrid bike gear options for the growing number of over 35s taking up cycling. Therefore the recent widespread availability of compact chainrings is a good thing imho.
I want to make one thing clear.....the risk of damaging your cardiac muscle is real if you are over 30 and use too high a gear, especially on more challenging hills. I've personal experience of cyclists victim to :
- 4 cases of instant death from massive heart failure
- 9 cases of the 'unmasking' of arrhythmias such as supraventricular tachycardia or atrial fibrillation. Two victims required pacemaker implants.
Cardiologists I know are more frequently seeing exercise induced arrhythmias in people 35-55.Was doing hill intervals yesterday. It was about an 8th of a mile climb, relatively steep. Really hammered up the hill after a 2 hr ride.
On the way down, my chest started really thumping oddly. Two to four normal beats followed by a stiff beat which felt like someone was punching my chest from the inside out. Got off the bike. Took my pulse. BEAT- BEAT- THUMP- BEAT- BEAT- THUMP. During the THUMP - no pulse, so it felt like my pulse was skipping.
Had my ride partner take my pulse. He felt the same thing. This went on for about 4 or 5 minutes. Luckily we were close to home at that point. He went and grabbed is car and we went to the emergency room about 10 minutes away.
By the time I got there, the THUMPING had stopped and my heart rate was in normal recovery mode. The docs hooked me up to a monitor, did an EKG, and took a blood test. Heart rate monitor turned out normal results after an hour. The EKG showed nothing abnormal. Blood test showed nothing abnormal. Blood pressure was normal.
DOC said it sounded like a PVC which, as he explained to me, occurs in the lower portion of the heart. He said this would explain the THUMP without the pulse. He said that during excessive athletic activity sometimes the heart can get confused and fire off electric impulses which causes the bottom to beat (for lack of a better word). This beat doesn't result in a pulse.premature vent contractions do occur in totally healthy individuals more often than people realize, but yeah they are usually confined to a few beats, not 3-4 minutes. since the beat is "premature" the atria (top part of the heart) haven't had time to fire yet and squeeze blood into the ventricles, so when the vents beat early they don't have any blood to pump, hence no pulse (the thump)0 -
Err, who are you quoting there, exactly?0
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FOAD wrote:Only pumping iron will give you a big heart.....lol....body builders are the most unfit athletes out there at pro level (possibly excluding sumo?), death waiting to happen.
I didn't say just lifting weights solely. I said combined with exercise as well. Not to mention a good diet and healthy lifestyle.0 -
Don't get hooked up on the marathon running. I just gave it as a example. You build muscle from resistance. You don't build it by marathon running or lying in bed! The heart is a muscle. Your heart doesn't get bigger from lots of running. Resistance training and intensive exercise does that. Slow fast. Slow fast.
Saying this thread is devoid of facts is just absurd.
Here is another fact.
Having a bigger heart will have the capacity to supply more oxygen to the muscles as i already said. Which is quite posible to do with the right training and will improve your VO2 max. To pedal at a much higher cadence a bigger VO2 max is needed. That is quite simply why i recommended a COMPACT to train for higher cadence. If you have a bigger heart it will be stronger as well. You can also have a big heart from ill health but that's another matter.
It quite sanely obvious, burn up the hill and use all your muscles up, or use a higher cadence and save your leg muscles, voila compact. According to you, you think that's nuts. It common sense to me.0 -
The heart gets stronger by working it, nothing to do with resistance training - plenty of body builders die of heart problems, it's a result of over exersion. Obviously if you go into exercise cold and push your HR to its maximum it won't do you any good just as if you go into the gym and start lifting the heaviest weight you can manage you'll pull a muscle. Half of the posts seem to be contradictory.
Training needs to be balanced. Low intensity workouts will assist in burning fat whilst exercising at higher intensities can help build power. All this pseudo science on a beginners forum is dangerous IMHO.
On the original topic I think compacts are certainly of benefit to anyone starting the sport. Once you get fit enough it may be worth changing the small chainring to a 36t which with an 11 - 23 or 25 on the back gives a good range of gears without too much overlapping that should see a reasonably fit rider on an unladen bike climb the toughest of hills without really grinding and also keeps the drop when changing from big to small chainring to a decent level. If you are spinning out on a 50 x 11 gear then you're probably on the sort of descent where you may as well get in a ski tuck and enjoy yourself!0
