How much faster with clip-in pedals?

ForumNewbie

I currently have normal flat alloy pedals on my light tourer bike (no clips or clipless pedals), but am podering whether to try clip-in pedals and shoes - but worried about falling-off etc.

However I am wondering if I would get a noticeable difference in my average speed if clipped in. While doing a 39 mile circuit this morning, I tested myself over a 10 mile flattish part of the route to see how fast I could go over that distance. I pushed myself quite hard and managed to do the 10 miles in 34 minutes averaging 17.6 mph. Do you think it would make a big difference to my speed if I used clip-in pedals?

STEFANOS4784

Yes, you will win the tour with clipless.
Sorry in a funny mood at the mo, i dont think you'll be that much quicker really but it just feels better, you can, essentially, forget about what your feet are doing as you become one with your steed 8)

John.T

The main advantage with clipless is you become part of the bike. You are no longer just sitting on it and you can control it far better. There are power advantages but they are mainly felt when sprinting (I could not even contemplate sprinting not clipped in now) and climbing. You can pedal further round the circle but very few people actually pull up all the time. Just when out of the saddle.

ForumNewbie

Hmmm - if there are no real power advantages, I might just stick with my trainers and flat pedals for the meantime. I've read on here that people always fall of a few times when they start clipping-in. Even although the falls are mostly when stopping, I would still have thought you could hurt yourself or damage the bike, especially if it fell on the derailler side? Once you are lying on the ground still clipped-in, is it not even more difficult to free yourself from the pedals?

Garz

+1 John.T

When I first got them I blew apart scaling a steep hill coming home, which with the same fitness would have been blowing. This may have been slightly due to better effort and the buzz of having new shoes/pedals but I do think they made me scale it better nonetheless.

Marginal increase but definitely justified the purchase.

teagar

ForumNewbie wrote:

Hmmm - if there are no real power advantages, I might just stick with my trainers and flat pedals for the meantime. I've read on here that people always fall of a few times when they start clipping-in. Even although the falls are mostly when stopping, I would still have thought you could hurt yourself or damage the bike, especially if it fell on the derailler side? Once you are lying on the ground still clipped-in, is it not even more difficult to free yourself from the pedals?

I've only fallen off twice through using clipless, and both were hilarious, and both after using them for 2 years.

They let you apply more power through more of the stroke that with flats, (usually at the bottom of the stroke I find), and are a godsend if you find yourself overgeared.

I find it much easier to spin with clipless than on flats too.

DomPro

You feel more connected with the pedal stroke which makes you a bit more efficient, or it should do. Plus its safer because your feet will stay on the pedal when climbing and such.

Escargot

If you are unsure about fitting cleats then I would still buy a pair of cycling shoes and wear them with your flats/toe clips.

It might sound an odd thing to do but you will definitely find an improvement in power transfer as cycling shoes are extremely stiff. With trainers you waste a lot of energy flexing the sole so as your foot bends not all of the power developed gets transferred directly to the pedal. To correct this your foot/calves work harder, which is undesirable.

That was how it was described to me and having gone through the trainers-to-cycling shoe transition I would definitely say it makes a big difference. As above it will make more difference sprinting/climbing but I would say it makes a difference on the flat too.

Nerrep

Honestly: do it. It makes a big difference in 'feel' if not speed, and I'd argue they're safer as well. Yes, you might (and probably will) fall off when coming to a standstill with the clipless system. However, this fall will be at negligible speed. On the other hand, when wearing trainers on flats, I've been hooning it down a hill at 35+ mph, hit a bump, and had both feel fly off the pedals, leaving me wobbling around and balancing on a single testicle. Coming off would have been disastrous, and the chances of it happening if clipped in would have been much lower, as I'd never have lost contact with the bike.

skinson

Clipless all the way. You can maintain a higher cadence with clipless. Your feet will not leave the pedal at any point through the stroke. I can't think of one person in this years tour who didn't have clipless pedals.
Dave

ForumNewbie

Escargot wrote:

If you are unsure about fitting cleats then I would still buy a pair of cycling shoes and wear them with your flats/toe clips.

It might sound an odd thing to do but you will definitely find an improvement in power transfer as cycling shoes are extremely stiff. With trainers you waste a lot of energy flexing the sole so as your foot bends not all of the power developed gets transferred directly to the pedal. To correct this your foot/calves work harder, which is undesirable.

That was how it was described to me and having gone through the trainers-to-cycling shoe transition I would definitely say it makes a big difference. As above it will make more difference sprinting/climbing but I would say it makes a difference on the flat too.

Yep, that seems a good way to start. I was thinking of maybe more of a touring shoe like the following:
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... Shoes_MT20
rather than an out and out road shoe. I think something like that will grip better on my flat touring pedals - presumably soles of these would still be a lot stiffer than trainers?

If I did eventually try clip-in pedals, I would maybe want to try those below:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/
Would these be compatible with the type of shoes above?

jeannot18

Just swapped my flat pedals with some Shimano A530 and SH56 cleats. Only went out once on Friday for a 26miles ride. Did it make a difference, i would say yes, mainly going up hills and going down too actually as your feet don't come off the pedals on bumps or because you are spinning too fast. I did not fall (yet...), had one moment at a T-junction, but as recommended by someone else on this forum the SH56 are multi-directional, which mean you can unclip twisting your foot in any direction. I was struggling putting my feet in a few times, and sometimes the shoe would click without even trying (which is a strange feeling actually). I unclip my shoe everytime I came to a roundabout or T-junction because i did not want to take the risk of falling, i guess with experience it would get better.
JC

gkerr4

ForumNewbie wrote:

Escargot wrote:

If you are unsure about fitting cleats then I would still buy a pair of cycling shoes and wear them with your flats/toe clips.

It might sound an odd thing to do but you will definitely find an improvement in power transfer as cycling shoes are extremely stiff. With trainers you waste a lot of energy flexing the sole so as your foot bends not all of the power developed gets transferred directly to the pedal. To correct this your foot/calves work harder, which is undesirable.

That was how it was described to me and having gone through the trainers-to-cycling shoe transition I would definitely say it makes a big difference. As above it will make more difference sprinting/climbing but I would say it makes a difference on the flat too.

Yep, that seems a good way to start. I was thinking of maybe more of a touring shoe like the following:
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... Shoes_MT20
rather than an out and out road shoe. I think something like that will grip better on my flat touring pedals - presumably soles of these would still be a lot stiffer than trainers?

If I did eventually try clip-in pedals, I would maybe want to try those below:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/
Would these be compatible with the type of shoes above?

to my mind, if you are really looking for 'power' upgrades then you have to go straight to road shoes and road cleats - touring leisure shoes might have a more solid sole than your trainers, but it is still flexible - they are made with too many comprimises to have a solid sole.

road shoes are just completely solid along the sole - even the cheaper ones - NONE of the power you put through them is wasted in flexing the sole. They are well worth it and (IMO) buying those shoes to 'try' is a waste of money

Nerrep

ForumNewbie wrote:

Yep, that seems a good way to start. I was thinking of maybe more of a touring shoe like the following:
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... Shoes_MT20
rather than an out and out road shoe. I think something like that will grip better on my flat touring pedals - presumably soles of these would still be a lot stiffer than trainers?

If I did eventually try clip-in pedals, I would maybe want to try those below:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/
Would these be compatible with the type of shoes above?

Don't waste your time or money. Just buy some road pedals and road shoes, and you can stick with them for years.

CiB

Clipped-in is probably the biggest single improvement to your cycling. You're attached to the bike, part of it. It feels right. And for those who insist that you have to fall off at least three times, ignore them. There's no Golden Rule, no law that says that you will fall off. I never have, not through being stuck in clips anyway. Get clipped in, go for a ride for a long way down roads where you don't need to stop and use that mileage to get the feel of unclipping & clipping back in on the move. It's a doddle. It really is. And it makes you a better rider.

ForumNewbie

gkerr4 wrote:

ForumNewbie wrote:

Escargot wrote:

If you are unsure about fitting cleats then I would still buy a pair of cycling shoes and wear them with your flats/toe clips.

It might sound an odd thing to do but you will definitely find an improvement in power transfer as cycling shoes are extremely stiff. With trainers you waste a lot of energy flexing the sole so as your foot bends not all of the power developed gets transferred directly to the pedal. To correct this your foot/calves work harder, which is undesirable.

That was how it was described to me and having gone through the trainers-to-cycling shoe transition I would definitely say it makes a big difference. As above it will make more difference sprinting/climbing but I would say it makes a difference on the flat too.

Yep, that seems a good way to start. I was thinking of maybe more of a touring shoe like the following:
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... Shoes_MT20
rather than an out and out road shoe. I think something like that will grip better on my flat touring pedals - presumably soles of these would still be a lot stiffer than trainers?

If I did eventually try clip-in pedals, I would maybe want to try those below:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/
Would these be compatible with the type of shoes above?

to my mind, if you are really looking for 'power' upgrades then you have to go straight to road shoes and road cleats - touring leisure shoes might have a more solid sole than your trainers, but it is still flexible - they are made with too many comprimises to have a solid sole.

road shoes are just completely solid along the sole - even the cheaper ones - NONE of the power you put through them is wasted in flexing the sole. They are well worth it and (IMO) buying those shoes to 'try' is a waste of money

If I bought proper road shoes would they be compatible with these pedals?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/

Nerrep

ForumNewbie wrote:

If I bought proper road shoes would they be compatible with these pedals?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/

No.

And for all my chat about the brilliance of clipless yesterday, I had my first 'moment' today, and collapsed at a traffic light. Thanks to the bloke in the car next to me who asked if I was okay rather than just pissing himself with laughter!

volvicspar

"Proper" Road pedal are absolutely awful, I wouldn't use them. They are just a great marketing scam imo. SPD's are superior in every way .

hamstrich

volvicspar wrote:

"Proper" Road pedal are absolutely awful, I wouldn't use them. They are just a great marketing scam imo. SPD's are superior in every way .

You are joking, right? SPD's might be okay for commuting / touring where you need to be clipping in and out all the time, but nothing matches the feeling of sureness you get when you're putting down the power through road pedals... I'd be worried about accidentally clipping out of my SPDs in a sprint!

volvicspar

No I am not joking, if you're coming unclipped then you don't have them tight enough.

Escargot

ForumNewbie wrote:

Escargot wrote:

If you are unsure about fitting cleats then I would still buy a pair of cycling shoes and wear them with your flats/toe clips.

It might sound an odd thing to do but you will definitely find an improvement in power transfer as cycling shoes are extremely stiff. With trainers you waste a lot of energy flexing the sole so as your foot bends not all of the power developed gets transferred directly to the pedal. To correct this your foot/calves work harder, which is undesirable.

That was how it was described to me and having gone through the trainers-to-cycling shoe transition I would definitely say it makes a big difference. As above it will make more difference sprinting/climbing but I would say it makes a difference on the flat too.

Yep, that seems a good way to start. I was thinking of maybe more of a touring shoe like the following:
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... Shoes_MT20
rather than an out and out road shoe. I think something like that will grip better on my flat touring pedals - presumably soles of these would still be a lot stiffer than trainers?

If I did eventually try clip-in pedals, I would maybe want to try those below:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/
Would these be compatible with the type of shoes above?

I've never tried a pair of touring shoes but use Specialized BG Sport MTB shoes with M520 mountain bike pedals (MTB shoes are definitely easier to walk in).

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/bg-sport-mtb-shoes-ec011618

and

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shimano/m520-spd-pedals-ec005948

The ones you've suggested are absolutely fine though and will depend on whether you ride with trainers occasionally (and thus need the flat).

To be honest the advice you've received already is sound but as a beginner I find SPD's perfect and the MTB shoes don't flex at all (or not enough to make a difference to me anyway). They're also relatively cheap (you can get the M520's for £20) and the shoes won't break the bank either.

I've no doubt that proper road pedals will be the best but my LBS advised to save my money and only to go up to proper road cleats once I've got to a level where my performance demands them. Seemed sensible to me.

Hope this helps

John.T

volvicspar wrote:

"Proper" Road pedal are absolutely awful, I wouldn't use them. They are just a great marketing scam imo. SPD's are superior in every way .

Rubbish. It is horses for courses. SPDs are great if you are clipping in and out a lot. They are also better for walking in. I use them in winter and on my fixed bike and MTB. However they do not provide anywhere near the stable platform that my SLs do.
FN. Do not get road shoes to use with flat pedals. The soles will give no grip at all. Get some that can be used with SPDs then you have the option for later. Unless you get into fairly serious riding SPDs are fine.

gkerr4

hamstrich wrote:

volvicspar wrote:

"Proper" Road pedal are absolutely awful, I wouldn't use them. They are just a great marketing scam imo. SPD's are superior in every way .

You are joking, right? SPD's might be okay for commuting / touring where you need to be clipping in and out all the time, but nothing matches the feeling of sureness you get when you're putting down the power through road pedals... I'd be worried about accidentally clipping out of my SPDs in a sprint!

completely agree - road fixing - look, time, SPD-Sl and the like are head and shoulders above SPD's - they feel much more solid in use and are surely better held for sprinting.

SPD's are OK - I mean I have them on my leisure bike - but not for my 'proper' road bike.

Escargot

Can't really comment on proper road cleats but I don't agree with SPD's being just 'ok'.

Mountain bikers put bikes/pedals through much more abuse that a roadie ever will and they're the standard. If they were in any way unstable or lacking in security then there'd be a plethora of widely used alternatives.

If you can jump rocks, go 40mph downhill and climb bigger gradients than you are likely to find on a road then I very much doubt that any amount of sprinting will cause an SPD to unclip. SPD's are solid no doubt and not just ok.

Road cleats might feel more secure but there's a world of difference between the sensation of security and 'actual' security. In this respect the choice is personal but in my mind SPD's are no less effective than Look, Time, SPD SL etc.

kingrollo

If youre that nervous do why I did : - buy spd mtb shoes with recessed cleats. Then buy some wellgo pedals (normal platform on one side ... spd on the other) - that way you can pedal as you are now - but clip in if you find yourself on a nice bit of quiet road. I consider myself quite a nervous, and even clumsy cyclist - but I managed this transition, I do think they make a difference - you pedal smoother - your feet aren't moving about.

Ive moved onto SPD/SL now, these are a little more tricky, mainly because I can't get an SL platform pedal - !!!! - but you really feel part on the bike on these.

go for it, if you really don't get on, you can recoup your costs on ebay - but I don't know many people who go back

murphdog

I went straight to road shoes/pedals (Look Keo Classic) and have absolutely no regrets. Sure, you can't really walk in them, but for training purposes I have no need to get off and walk. I nearly fell off a few times when getting used to them - you have to remember you're wearing them when stopping. I'd also recommend setting the release tension as loose as possible.

If on the other hand you need to cycle then walk any more than a few metres you'll be needing SPDs or similar.

Aspman77

ForumNewbie wrote:

Hmmm - if there are no real power advantages, I might just stick with my trainers and flat pedals for the meantime. I've read on here that people always fall of a few times when they start clipping-in. Even although the falls are mostly when stopping, I would still have thought you could hurt yourself or damage the bike, especially if it fell on the derailler side? Once you are lying on the ground still clipped-in, is it not even more difficult to free yourself from the pedals?

I got SPDs and MTB shoes to go with a new bike. First time clipless. I fell off twice in the garage whilst trying to get use to them. So I just thought "sod it" and went out. I've had no problems on the road. You do need to get into the habit of unclipping well before the stop which can take a bit of planning. I started off by having the clips set at their slackest to make it easy to clip out of. I've since tightened them up a bit.

Strangely I have no recollection of having any problems unclipping from the pedals whilst lying on the garage floor.

Headhuunter

ChrisInBicester wrote:

Clipped-in is probably the biggest single improvement to your cycling. You're attached to the bike, part of it. It feels right. And for those who insist that you have to fall off at least three times, ignore them. There's no Golden Rule, no law that says that you will fall off. I never have, not through being stuck in clips anyway. Get clipped in, go for a ride for a long way down roads where you don't need to stop and use that mileage to get the feel of unclipping & clipping back in on the move. It's a doddle. It really is. And it makes you a better rider.

I agree with this. The 1st upgrade to make to any bike is to go clipless, then possibly upgrade wheels before tampering with mechs, bottle cages etc. There is most definietly a power advantage when accelerating and heading up hills in particular and when spinning along flat roads they allow you to get your legs spinning round in perfect circles at high cadences, without any risk of your foot flying off the pedals

blorg

volvicspar wrote:

No I am not joking, if you're coming unclipped then you don't have them tight enough.

No matter how tight you have the tension it is possible to unclip from SPDs in a sprint. Never happened before I started racing. After unclipping twice in sprints I swapped to Time RXS for racing and they definitely offer more secure retention.

You can get out of SPDs by rolling your foot to the side, (even with single release cleats) while with the road systems (Time RXS anyway, I presume the others are the same) moving your heel in a very deliberate motion is literally the only way you are coming out of them.

I would not go for a road system unless you are racing, SPD has many advantages with regard to walkability, ease of clipping in, etc. But road racing a road system is definitely better.

whatgearyouusing

Ive started thinking about getting some SPD's for my MTB and this is a good convincing thread for me to try them. The reason I havent tried them before is because Ive been too scared of falling off :oops: and Im concerned that riding clipless will bugger my knees up - is this an unfounded concern? I remember when some mates first got clipless back in the early nineties the cleat (or whatever) didnt float.I presume technology has moved on now?

blorg

Yes clipless systems generally do have float now, you would have to go out of your way to get something with no float.