How much faster with clip-in pedals?

2

Comments

  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    hamstrich wrote:
    volvicspar wrote:
    "Proper" Road pedal are absolutely awful, I wouldn't use them. They are just a great marketing scam imo. SPD's are superior in every way .

    You are joking, right? SPD's might be okay for commuting / touring where you need to be clipping in and out all the time, but nothing matches the feeling of sureness you get when you're putting down the power through road pedals... I'd be worried about accidentally clipping out of my SPDs in a sprint!

    I totally agree with volvicspar.

    I have never come unclipped by accident in my spd's.
    Plus my Sid mtb shoes, which I would probably rather classify as a touring shoe, have no flex in the sole. Therefore I have all the advantages of a "road" shoe and I have the advantage that I walk in relative comfort.
    Simples :P
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • Just go for full road shoes and road pedals! You're a cyclist not a walker so you don't need shoes that you can walk properly in! You don't see footballers use boots that have a compromised performance due to them having to walk up the tunnel to get on the pitch so why do it on a bike?!?! Just seems totally illogical to me!!
  • Just go for full road shoes and road pedals! You're a cyclist not a walker so you don't need shoes that you can walk properly in! You don't see footballers use boots that have a compromised performance due to them having to walk up the tunnel to get on the pitch so why do it on a bike?!?! Just seems totally illogical to me!!

    +1
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Just go for full road shoes and road pedals! You're a cyclist not a walker so you don't need shoes that you can walk properly in! You don't see footballers use boots that have a compromised performance due to them having to walk up the tunnel to get on the pitch so why do it on a bike?!?! Just seems totally illogical to me!!

    While it may seem illogical to you it is equally funny for me to watch those on road shoes clip-clopping their way to the cafe :lol:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    sods_law wrote:
    Just go for full road shoes and road pedals! You're a cyclist not a walker so you don't need shoes that you can walk properly in! You don't see footballers use boots that have a compromised performance due to them having to walk up the tunnel to get on the pitch so why do it on a bike?!?! Just seems totally illogical to me!!

    +1
    This represents a very narrow view of being a cyclist. We are all different and have different reasons for riding.
  • Just go for full road shoes and road pedals! You're a cyclist not a walker so you don't need shoes that you can walk properly in! You don't see footballers use boots that have a compromised performance due to them having to walk up the tunnel to get on the pitch so why do it on a bike?!?! Just seems totally illogical to me!!

    But most of the time a 'race' style mtb shoe is just the same as a 'race' style road shoe with a bit of extra plastic on the bottom, and as such the performance advantage of the latter is so small as to be undetectable. So with a road shoe you're compromising your ability to walk, which you will have to do at some point, for no real benefit elsewhere*. This seems totally illogical to me! Still, at least we can agree that some form of clipless is miles better than flat pedals and trainers.

    *Unless you have trouble with unintentionally unclipping during sprints, which has never happened to me.
  • Just go for full road shoes and road pedals! You're a cyclist not a walker so you don't need shoes that you can walk properly in! You don't see footballers use boots that have a compromised performance due to them having to walk up the tunnel to get on the pitch so why do it on a bike?!?! Just seems totally illogical to me!!

    PMSL :lol:

    You forget that there are some people that use the same shoes for multiple tasks. In any case I can walk quite easily on blades/studs and don't look like a penguin in the process.

    I have an MTB go spinning in the gym and use a road bike so the majority of my cycling/training requires the need for an SPD shoe. In this respect it's totally logical to have one shoe that serves all purposes and I find SPD's fine for road use. Why I would want to buy another pair of shoes, cleats and pedals (totalling £200+) is beyond me when I can use that cash on more sensible things.

    In all honesty I don't see the point in road shoes as there is absolutely no practical justification for not having an few extra bits of tread on the sole to aid walking. It's purely visual as the extra tread does next to nothing for aerodynamics and you'd save more weight from clipping your toe nails.

    In my mind it's just another avenue for manufacturers to make more money from people.
  • I started with SPD's on the road bike, but found the flexible sole and small cleat to create hotspots on long rides. Switched to the larger and more rigid platform of spd-sl's and the problem went away.
  • antfly
    antfly Posts: 3,276
    I have just upgraded from spd`s to spd-sl and I much prefer them especially going up hills. I can also go faster for longer. The ultegras are just as easy to get out of as spd`s.
    Smarter than the average bear.
  • clipless all the way, if you do fall over-just get up again :D
  • The rule of "you will fall twice" applied to me but I wouldn't go back to biking without them. My commute to work is just over 1 mile so I don't bother wearing them for such a short distance and it just seems like I'm going slower for more effort than when out on my 10 mile morning ride.

    I also hate when I haven't got them on, my feet coming off the pedals when going over bumps. That always seems more dangerous than perhaps falling off at 3MPH outside the house in front of a group of schoolkids. Once you get used to the action of releasing your feet it becomes second nature. Just go for it is my advice
  • simon_e
    simon_e Posts: 1,707
    I haven't tried SPD-SL type road pedals so can't comment on whether that cleat/pedal type has any advantage. A friend of mine, who has ridden with SPDs and Eggbeaters has bought some 105 pedals for his road bike. I don't know if there's improved power transfer but he certainly feels less safe at low speed because of the increased effort needed to unclip. He also misses the extra float the SPDs provided.

    My Shimano MT40 shoes and M520 pedals are great and have made a significant difference to my pedalling efficiency and speed, particularly uphill. Last week I tried a pair of Shimano A520 pedals, which have a larger contact area around the toe. I thought they were better, but on reflection that may have been due to the higher spring tension.

    While some people will argue you don't need to walk in cycling shoes I'd say that there is always going to be a time most people need to walk. I'm not arguing against road cleats (and surely even big boys can make their own mind up) but for me I'd prefer to stick with the slight compromise of SPD cleats and get the benefit of walking more safely. I also like the fact that I can use the same shoes on both bikes.

    On my first attempt I wound out the tension to minimum and pootled around the car park at Cannock Chase, which provided a nice soft landing area for the inevitable 'moment' (followed by much laughter). After a few rides I was unclipping without much thought and now it's more or less automatic. Rather like learning to ride in the first place, and certainly not insurmountable.
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • antfly
    antfly Posts: 3,276
    Can anyone really notice the difference in one degree of less float on each side? The float feels just the same to me.
    Smarter than the average bear.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Slimbods wrote:
    I started with SPD's on the road bike, but found the flexible sole and small cleat to create hotspots on long rides. Switched to the larger and more rigid platform of spd-sl's and the problem went away.
    That is not really relevent to the current discussion as better shoes would have solved the hotspot problem.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,912
    Get some - they make far more difference than almost anything else. It's not necessarily clipless pedals but the shoe that provides a benefitas the stiff sole allows the power to transfer efficiently, you could go to toe straps if worried about unclipping but for them to be their most efficient they have to be done up tight and can be even harder to get your foot out. I've used clipless pretty much since they started and only twice have I forgotten to unclip quickly enough :oops: It really isn't as bad as some people would have you think, just a quick twist of the ankle, and most modern clipless pedals are adjustable so you can start with them loose until it becomes second nature. You will really feel the benefit on hills where your feet can lift off the pedals too easily with standard pedals. The biggest problem can be the cleats if you are likely to have to do any walking - if you are then go with MTB clipless pedalsas the shoes have the cleat recessed to allow normal walking (you may end up having a slightly less rigid soled shoe as a compromise though).

    If you use your bike for anything more than riding to the local shop then I would strongly recommend clipless pedals - the only downside is that if you do use a bike just to nip down the road the pedals can be a bit small to ride with normal shoes.
  • John.T wrote:
    sods_law wrote:
    Just go for full road shoes and road pedals! You're a cyclist not a walker so you don't need shoes that you can walk properly in! You don't see footballers use boots that have a compromised performance due to them having to walk up the tunnel to get on the pitch so why do it on a bike?!?! Just seems totally illogical to me!!

    +1
    This represents a very narrow view of being a cyclist. We are all different and have different reasons for riding.

    Of course, but this is a road forum! Therefore any views on cycling are going to be narrowed down already!

    @ Escargot: I find it hard to believe that you don't see road shoes as an advantage! And what does it matter if you walk like a penguin?! I did my food shoping in my road shoes the other day and no-one even noticed I was wearing them. And I wouldn't have cared if they did!
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    If you want to be able to ride with or without cleats use these or similar. Best of both worlds.
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7808
    Foe commuting, touring and general pottering about SPDs are best. If you are racing, riding sportives and generally riding hard them you should consider SPD-SL or similar.
    MoS.
    Of course, but this is a road forum! Therefore any views on cycling are going to be narrowed down already!
    I would consider the 'road' section to cover the widest spectrum of all on here.
  • antfly
    antfly Posts: 3,276
    These would be abetter option for trying out clipless http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=5937 but it`s not a good idea to use the flat side with a cleated shoe, as I found out.
    Smarter than the average bear.
  • John.T wrote:
    I would consider the 'road' section to cover the widest spectrum of all on here.

    Maybe, but to me road biking is about riding for the sake of it rather than a purpose (such as commuting) so road shoes would be the logical choice. Anyway, we're not going to agree on this so lets agree to disagree before it goes off topic :)
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    antfly wrote:
    These would be abetter option for trying out clipless http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=5937 but it`s not a good idea to use the flat side with a cleated shoe, as I found out.
    You don't have that problem with the ones I showed. My son has been using an older version for commuting in ordinary shoes and with cleats for pleasure riding for many years now. He would not use anything else now.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    To get back on topic and almost full circle.
    John.T wrote:
    The main advantage with clipless is you become part of the bike. You are no longer just sitting on it and you can control it far better. There are power advantages but they are mainly felt when sprinting (I could not even contemplate sprinting not clipped in now) and climbing. You can pedal further round the circle but very few people actually pull up all the time. Just when out of the saddle.
    And to give a straight answer to the OP. 'Not a lot'. I gave the advantages above and from the many posts I would say you would choose which clipless by the type of cycling you do.
  • @ Escargot: I find it hard to believe that you don't see road shoes as an advantage! And what does it matter if you walk like a penguin?! I did my food shoping in my road shoes the other day and no-one even noticed I was wearing them. And I wouldn't have cared if they did!

    LOL, it doesn't really matter if you walk like a penguin. I was just kidding but in truth I'd rather not buy 2 pairs of shoes when I'm 99% certain that, at my level, a proper road shoe will not make much difference (other than to my wallet).

    I did originally consider it but did a comparitive flex test on a bunch of high end road and regular MTB shoes and there really wasn't much in it. For sure some of the £100+ carbon soled shoes were extremely rigid but not enough for me to want to buy a pair.

    A lot of my mates are serious mountain bikers and I have it on good authority that SPD's are rock solid (despite them looking tiny compared to, say, a Look cleat). I've no doubt that proper cleats feel more secure but have yet to experience some of the problems that others have mentioned i.e. unclipping whilst sprinting.

    I admit they do look much better but as before there's no real weight/drag difference that will hinder me adversely so I'd rather be able to walk more easily with my MTB's
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    A lot of my mates are serious mountain bikers and I have it on good authority that SPD's are rock solid

    Rubbish, mtb SPDs rock horribly. It isn't very (if at all) noticable on a big fat, bouncy mtb offroad, but do a lot of road riding and it really is noticable compared to road systems. Both systems are good for the purposes designed, but road clipless have a bigger platform for a good reason.
  • eh wrote:
    A lot of my mates are serious mountain bikers and I have it on good authority that SPD's are rock solid

    Rubbish, mtb SPDs rock horribly. It isn't very (if at all) noticable on a big fat, bouncy mtb offroad, but do a lot of road riding and it really is noticable compared to road systems. Both systems are good for the purposes designed, but road clipless have a bigger platform for a good reason.

    Misinterpretation I'm afraid :wink:

    I meant rock solid in terms of the problems others were talking about a few pages back (in that they unclip when sprinting). I've never had that problem as my feet, even on the lowest tension, are glued to the pedals.

    In terms of outright stability I conceed that my SPD's can rotate a bit but in my mind it really does not make as much difference to power transfer than bike control when out of the saddle i.e. keeping the bike from swaying, or fore/aft positioning whilst sprinting.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    eh wrote:
    Rubbish, mtb SPDs rock horribly. It isn't very (if at all) noticable on a big fat, bouncy mtb offroad, but do a lot of road riding and it really is noticable compared to road systems. Both systems are good for the purposes designed, but road clipless have a bigger platform for a good reason.
    Not all. It depends on the shoe. SPDs rely on the edges of the sole either side of the cleat sitting on the pedal beside the cleat attachment for stability. My PDM520s were a bit floppy with my old shoes but are quite stable with my Speciallized Expert shoes. Not to SL standards but they do not 'rock horribly'. It would not be a problem on the road.
    Incidently I won my only RR victory using SPDs and cheap Vittoria MTB shoes. I won a 7 up sprint.
  • antfly
    antfly Posts: 3,276
    John.T wrote:
    antfly wrote:
    These would be abetter option for trying out clipless http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=5937 but it`s not a good idea to use the flat side with a cleated shoe, as I found out.
    You don't have that problem with the ones I showed. My son has been using an older version for commuting in ordinary shoes and with cleats for pleasure riding for many years now. He would not use anything else now.
    Are you saying you can ride in them with cleats without clipping in, should you want to? That`s what I meant you can`t really do with the others.
    Smarter than the average bear.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    If you had cleats you would normally clip in but if you move your foot slightly off centre they are still quite secure without clipping in. I don't see why you would want to though, if you have cleats then use them. They are fine with trainers etc due to the large platform.
  • simon_e
    simon_e Posts: 1,707
    John.T wrote:
    The friend who lent me the A520s has these. They don't appear to provide a stiff platform because they move IIRC, but he finds them OK for his MTB/freestyle type of riding.

    If anyone is finding SPDs too flexy I'd suggest they may have shoes that aren't stiff enough. I've time trialled in mine for 2 seasons as well as commuting and I really don't think a little extra stiffness and/or platform area on the road shoe would make a significant difference. My wallet would certainly know about it though! Shimano 105 SPD SL-s are heavier, so must surely slow you down ;-)

    Note that I said "suggest", so don't flame me if you disagree. All this is stuff is opinion or personal experience anyway so why people get so hot under the collar about SPDs vs SLs I don't know...
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • Wow - I didn't realise my post would create such a debate. It's certainly given me food for thought as I didn't originally realise there were so many 'clipless' options.

    I cycle mainly for leisure (sometimes fairly long rides) and although I don't need to do much walking off the bike, I think I will go for a mountain bike shoe initially - ones that I can use with my flat touring pedals initially, and if I want to try clip-in pedals, I'm still thinking of going for these:
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360027292/
    I think pure road shoes and pedals would not really give me a great advantage as I am not planning on racing, and they sound more tricky to get out of quickly. I'm still a bit wary of any sort of clip-in, but I think I'm more willing to give it a try now.

    With my current flat touring pedals, my feet have rarely slipped off the pedals, even with fairly worn-soled trainers. However I am a bit wary getting out of the saddle when climbing as a slip off the pedal could mean a nasty encounter with the crossbar - which thankfully I've avoided so far!
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    As you probably have found by now opinions are very varied except that clipless are a good thing. In my opinion they and STI / Ergo shifters are the only 2 significant developments in bikes in the last 50+ years. Everything else has just been development.
    Given your riding you are right to go that way. I hope you enjoy your choice.