Cyclist under HGV on Thames Street/Southwark Bridge Junction

spen666

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

wait for gavin Gilbert - he works near there. So do I but at home today. He will post reliable info if he has any.

Hope cyclist ok.

I came in by tube today and this is the first I've heard of the incident. It's a tricky junction, one of the most risky places on my commuting route.
Of course there's nothing in the public domain to suggest how the incident occured - but I've seen both sides at fault there in the past. My thoughts are with the cyclist involved.

Gavin, i commute this everyday- from East to West in morning and vice versa on an evening.

I don't particularly like the junction, but maybe its fear as so many accident occur here.

Why do you say its a tricky junction. I can't put my finger on anything tricky about it, but I still don't like it.

Can anyone else explain what it is that is wrong with this junction?


[ NB I'm not disagreeing with your view on the junction, just trying to understand why it is a bad junction]

Porgy

Dudu wrote:

The meejer and TfL are going to great pains to tell cyclists (usually women cyclists) not to ride up the inside of Big Things while, in my experience, it's true there are some cyclists who do very silly things around large vehicles, a lot of the reports I've read in the papers seem to point to an awful lot of lethal left hooks happening out there, encouraged by timid and gutter-hugging cyclists. I see a lot of foolish riding around London, and a lot of foolish driving.

Again though - if anyone has been tailgated at 25 mph or more by an artic/HGV - then they realise how intimidating these things can be.

No one seems to be challenging the driver behaviour - all the public information seems to be aimed at cyclists.

iainment

woodyonthebeach wrote:

I really hope these people are OK. So this has got me thinking.

Can London not charge extra to HGV's to use the particular routes within the capital that see the most fatalities. Hopefully reducing the risk to the cyclist that us them, this would also mean that more cyclist could possibly appear in the London along these routes.

Not sure if this would work as I do not live or work in London (yet).

The GLC banned large lorries from central London in the daytime - admittedly for traffic management/pollution issues - doing this again would be the logical thing to do if the Mayor really cared about road safety for cyclists.

Hope the victim is going to be ok.

Roastie

iainment wrote:

The GLC banned large lorries from central London in the daytime - admittedly for traffic management/pollution issues - doing this again would be the logical thing to do if the Mayor really cared about road safety for cyclists.

I'm still waiting for a response from the Mayor's office on exactly this issue... It has been over 6 weeks now.

cjcp

spen666 wrote:

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

wait for gavin Gilbert - he works near there. So do I but at home today. He will post reliable info if he has any.

Hope cyclist ok.

I came in by tube today and this is the first I've heard of the incident. It's a tricky junction, one of the most risky places on my commuting route.
Of course there's nothing in the public domain to suggest how the incident occured - but I've seen both sides at fault there in the past. My thoughts are with the cyclist involved.

Gavin, i commute this everyday- from East to West in morning and vice versa on an evening.

I don't particularly like the junction, but maybe its fear as so many accident occur here.

Why do you say its a tricky junction. I can't put my finger on anything tricky about it, but I still don't like it.

Can anyone else explain what it is that is wrong with this junction?


[ NB I'm not disagreeing with your view on the junction, just trying to understand why it is a bad junction]

I don't think I carry on as far as you chaps - I turn off directly opposite Southwark Bridge. So, I can't speak for that particular corner, but, heading eastbound, the speed at which traffic can come up behind you as you have to slow down to turn left is always something to watch out for. The double red lines I and many others have to cross to turn left add to the experience, particularly in the rain. That feature is particularly ill-thought out - ok if you crossing them at 90 degrees, not so from my direction.

Gazzaputt

I agree that the standard of driving with skip, 20 ton and cement lorries all leave a lot to be desired.

It seems this type of driving attract a certain type of person to do it.

Gavin Gilbert

spen666 wrote:

Gavin, i commute this everyday- from East to West in morning and vice versa on an evening.

I don't particularly like the junction, but maybe its fear as so many accident occur here.

Why do you say its a tricky junction. I can't put my finger on anything tricky about it, but I still don't like it.

Can anyone else explain what it is that is wrong with this junction?


[ NB I'm not disagreeing with your view on the junction, just trying to understand why it is a bad junction]

It is a major east/west and north/south junction so attracts a lot of heavy traffic. This is made worse by the City's 'Ring of Lego' traffic management that actively forces traffic away from the business district onto Lower Thames Street.

The approach to the junction is not nice, vehicles regularly force their way from the minor road on the left onto the main carriageway blocking access to the short section of narrow marked cycle lane, and when you eventually get there the ASL is more likely than not to have vehicles – and in particular motorbikes and scooters – occupying it.

My route takes me straight on down the Blackfriars Tunnel so if I get to the front of the queue I’m normally okay (but have had close calls with left turning motorbikes in the past). I would be less comfortable with needing to turn left, and I’m quick away from the lights. The behaviour of pedestrians at the junction also does not help. It’s normal for them to launch themselves across the road when the traffic has just been given right of way, negating any advantage the ASL has provided.

In my view the ASL needs to be much larger and possibly have a dedicated Cycle phase to the traffic lights or the even having the ASL set forward of the pedestrian crossing. The critical point would be enforcement of the ASL. I’m not hopeful of improvements.

snooks

I think at the moment with all the road works in that area, it's the first open bit of road since tower bridge and people can't wait to get away....

http://www.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=SE1&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.671726,46.538086&ie=UTF8&ll=51.510736,-0.092992&spn=0.000471,0.00142&t=h&z=20

There are signs warning cyclist about construction traffic in the area, and the pavement is wide enough to reclaim some of it for bicycles. There is an ASL there, but it's usually full of motorbikes, as is the cycle lane.

Anyway it looks like it's going to rain so I'm off now

Levi_501

I got caught in this, then my work colleague let me know why.

Poor bu993r, hopre they are going to be alright.

I have to say of all the things on the road, mixers and tippers are the things I keep clearest of. There is nothing soft on these lorries.

If anyone is a friend of the cyclist, please send them my warmest regards and wishes for a speedy recovery.

snooks

On the way home tonight I could so easily have hit a cyclist at the same junction, just on the other side of the road....

For those who don't know it, from Southwark Bridge it has 3 lanes on the bridge meeting upper Thames street. Lane 1 turning left, lanes 2 and 3 turning right onto upper Thames Street. I was in lane two, cyclist next to me in lane 3. I'm turning right, so I'm positioned in the secondary position of lane 2 in the ASL box. Cyclist on my right in lane 3 is in the ASL.

I signal right, lights go green, I go, he goes, I'm along side him waiting for him to turn right, I start turning right he's still along side me, so I'm now having to run parallel with him waiting for him to turn right. We're approaching the pavement and I think he's carrying a bit of speed to make the turn. I slow to make the turn. Is he turning right? Is he hell! The stupid to$$er is going straight on, and nearly take me out in the process :evil:

He's lucky I wasn't on a motorbike, in car or lorry. He was in the wrong lane, and it's people who ride like that the cause the finger to be pointed at cyclists in collisions like the one that happened yards from where the incident happened this morning. You'd think that might make people a little wary of the junction. Obviously not

prj45

Roastie wrote:

iainment wrote:

The GLC banned large lorries from central London in the daytime - admittedly for traffic management/pollution issues - doing this again would be the logical thing to do if the Mayor really cared about road safety for cyclists.

I'm still waiting for a response from the Mayor's office on exactly this issue... It has been over 6 weeks now.

He's too busy gtting bendy buses off the road, which have never killed anybody (despite him asserting the opposite was true during the election run up).

What's more he's replaced the ones on the 507 with very long single decks that have a massive overhang at the back (lethal), and there's more vehicles on the road at any one time (more drivers, more room for cock ups).

And that's before he reintroduces buses that peds can fling themselves off the back of leaving themselves with 10-20mph of forward momentum to deal with in the middle of the road.

What a c***k. who voted for him here, hands up!

prj45

snooks wrote:

There are signs warning cyclist about construction traffic in the area,

That makes I larf, the signs should be the other way round frankly, LGV drivers beware of cyclists, not cyclists beware of LGV's.

Gavin Gilbert

prj45 wrote:

What a c***k. who voted for him here, hands up!

Never mind, at least he announced the 'Cycle Superhighway' scheme. Shame he doesn't have the budget for it, as it was to be funded by the Carbon Charge on gas guzzling cars, which he has now scrapped.

Good job he still found £400,000 of London ratepayers money to pay to Porsche 'lo.

snooks

prj45 wrote:

snooks wrote:

There are signs warning cyclist about construction traffic in the area,

That makes I larf, the signs should be the other way round frankly, LGV drivers beware of cyclists, not cyclists beware of LGV's.

To be fair there used to be two signs. One warning motorists of cyclists on the inside and another warning cyclists about construction traffic.

I'll check it out on my way in tomorrow

eyevea

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

greg66_tri_v2.0

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

Ye Gods. That puts a shiver down my spine.

I hope your daughter makes a full recovery, as, I'm sure, does everyone here.

And thank you for posting.

cjcp

Greg66 wrote:

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

Ye Gods. That puts a shiver down my spine.

I hope your daughter makes a full recovery, as, I'm sure, does everyone here.

And thank you for posting.

+1.

Kieran_Burns

I'm shocked, stunned and very very relieved.

PLEASE pass on our very very best to your daughter and our hopes for a speedy and full recovery.

Levi_501

I think I can say on behalf of everyone (bikeradar) warmest regards and wishes for a speedy recovery.

shoulder_of_orion

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

She is lucky in one sense, but still she broke her hip. I hope she makes a full recovery soon, my thoughts are with her and your family.

Rich158

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

Thank god for small mercies. My thoughts go out to you, every time my son goes out on the road bike I'm terrified even though I commute every day. I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery.

PinkPedal

Thank you for taking the time to post eyevea, my thoughts are with your daughter and her family - wishing her a speedy recovery.

Roastie

PinkPedal wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to post eyevea, my thoughts are with your daughter and her family - wishing her a speedy recovery.

Ditto.

Very relieved to hear she is OK.

roger_merriman

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

not often you see fractured pelvis and lucky in the same sentence, i hope she gets well very soon, I can't and wouldn't want to imagine the horror that your family has been/going though.

Dudu

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

I'm so glad she'll still alive. Speedy recovery to her.

velorazzi

I thought about her this morning when I arrived at work by bike. I hope she makes a full recovery soon. All the best.

snooks

I cycle past where it happened when I cycle into work, I don't think I'll forget the feeling seeing the lorry stopped mid junction with the police cordon around. I glad it wasn't more serious. Please wish her a speedy recovery from us all

Code Munky

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

Thank you for taking the time to post an update with your daughters condition. I was the guy who got the truck to stop yesterday. I was stood on the island on Southwark bridge facing the VW garage and waiting to cross. The truck driver didn't seem to have a clue she was there and she just got pulled under the wheels. I'd cycled over that exact spot about 15 minutes earlier on my way to work and it was very chaotic as the road ahead was closed (due to the earlier accident at Embankment) so all the traffic in both lanes were having to turn left over Southwark bridge at the last minute. My thoughts have been with your daughter since yesterday morning and I'm so relieved to hear she will recover.

Porgy

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

prj45 wrote:

What a c***k. who voted for him here, hands up!

Never mind, at least he announced the 'Cycle Superhighway' scheme. Shame he doesn't have the budget for it, as it was to be funded by the Carbon Charge on gas guzzling cars, which he has now scrapped.

Good job he still found £400,000 of London ratepayers money to pay to Porsche 'lo.

I'm no supporter of Boris Johnson - but having attended an LCC presentation on this two weeks ago - the "superhighways" budget is currently £165m, and the first two are going ahead as we speak.

I'm not vouching for whether they'll be any good - or whether the budget will still be there in a year's time - but it is there now.

benno68

eyevea wrote:

The woman that was hit by the cement truck is my daughter. Luckily she only suffered a fractured pelvis. She is a very lucky woman. She often has her 3 year old daughter with her...but didn't this time...Thought everyone would like to know.

I'm in the US and my daughter, husband and daughter live and work in London. She was on her way to work....truck driver never saw her...even after she was under the truck...a witness had to get him to stop. If he hadn't stopped, my daughter would most likely have been killed. Very scary.

Best wishes to your daughter for a speedy recovery!