Astarloza postive

124

Comments

  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    iainf72 wrote:
    Well, perhaps just to survive and keep a contract?
    The sad truth.
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He didn't do it. Regardless of what the test says

    http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=15383
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Yorkman
    Yorkman Posts: 290
    iainf72 wrote:
    He didn't do it. Regardless of what the test says

    http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=15383

    The Gasquet defence might not work with CERA....
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    With the possible exception of Boonen's second cocaine positive - does anyone ever admit 'doing it' until after the B-Sample has been tested and confirmed as a positive?

    I guess it's standard practice (just like any guilty man in the regular court system claiming their innocence right up to and even after they are convicted).
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    He is quite adamant he didn't do it:

    This is the article from a spanish newspaper:
    http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/20 ... 86878.html
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  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    gabriel959 wrote:
    He is quite adamant he didn't do it:

    This is the article from a spanish newspaper:
    http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/20 ... 86878.html

    Saying it loudly or strongly doesn't make it any more true. :)
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Pokerface wrote:
    gabriel959 wrote:
    He is quite adamant he didn't do it:

    This is the article from a spanish newspaper:
    http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/20 ... 86878.html

    Saying it loudly or strongly doesn't make it any more true. :)

    True - lets wait for the B sample though.
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  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    gabriel959 wrote:
    He is quite adamant he didn't do it:

    This is the article from a spanish newspaper:
    http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/20 ... 86878.html

    Saying it loudly or strongly doesn't make it any more true. :)

    True - lets wait for the B sample though.

    Why bother? He probably remembers what happened to Iban Mayo when his B sample came back negative.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Some athletes do get off when the B sample comes back different. The epo test is almost unique in its subjectivity. That doesn't mean it is meaningless, just that you really need to know what you're doing. In theory, yes, a lab with WADA accreditation should, but that is not always the case - unfortunately.

    I am not clear as to what the test for Mircera invovles and whether it is similar to the epo test. It may not be, and may be much more clear cut. Would be happy if someone could provide a link to how the test is carried out.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Didn't one of the Olympic athletes (not the cyclists) who initially tested positive for CERA get off when his B-sample came back negative?
  • kozzo
    kozzo Posts: 182
    squired wrote:
    Cycling is very much a central European sport ...

    Are you sure you are ok with geography...
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    Simon E wrote:
    An alternative is to avoid this particular forum - or at least the 'dirty' threads. The atmosphere here is pretty hard on dopers, it's where people who love this most amazing sport vent their frustration. But if you can handle that then there is lots to discover.
    I would challenge that ... they do not love cycling, they are merely obsessed with doping :!:
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • dave milne
    dave milne Posts: 703
    Pokerface wrote:
    With the possible exception of Boonen's second cocaine positive - does anyone ever admit 'doing it' until after the B-Sample has been tested and confirmed as a positive?

    I guess it's standard practice (just like any guilty man in the regular court system claiming their innocence right up to and even after they are convicted).

    cristian moreni admitted it after the 1st sample
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    So what does Astro-boy mean when he says" If I had taken something I would have given a wrong address [to the controllers]."

    That alone would be a clear breach of the 'wearabouts' clause - wouldn't it?


    Are we to imply that just because he gave the correct address to doping control (as is mandatory) that he is innocent? Isn't that a little like saying "would I have shown up for the race and won that stage if I was guilty?"


    And so on....
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    dave milne wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    With the possible exception of Boonen's second cocaine positive - does anyone ever admit 'doing it' until after the B-Sample has been tested and confirmed as a positive?

    I guess it's standard practice (just like any guilty man in the regular court system claiming their innocence right up to and even after they are convicted).

    cristian moreni admitted it after the 1st sample

    so did Landaluze
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  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Pokerface wrote:
    So what does Astro-boy mean when he says" If I had taken something I would have given a wrong address [to the controllers]."

    That alone would be a clear breach of the 'wearabouts' clause - wouldn't it?


    Are we to imply that just because he gave the correct address to doping control (as is mandatory) that he is innocent? Isn't that a little like saying "would I have shown up for the race and won that stage if I was guilty?"


    And so on....

    No, he would have got two warnings from the UCI. Deliberately avoiding the testers will get you banned (this happened to the Dutch rider Stefan Van Dijk when the testers saw him legging it) - but you could just say you were running late, stuck in traffic, taking a shower, whatever.

    See Victor Conte's "duck and dive" technique.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    afx237vi wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    So what does Astro-boy mean when he says" If I had taken something I would have given a wrong address [to the controllers]."

    That alone would be a clear breach of the 'wearabouts' clause - wouldn't it?


    Are we to imply that just because he gave the correct address to doping control (as is mandatory) that he is innocent? Isn't that a little like saying "would I have shown up for the race and won that stage if I was guilty?"


    And so on....

    No, he would have got two warnings from the UCI. Deliberately avoiding the testers will get you banned (this happened to the Dutch rider Stefan Van Dijk when the testers saw him legging it) - but you could just say you were running late, stuck in traffic, taking
    a shower, whatever.

    See Victor Conte's "duck and dive" technique.




    As perfected by
    ohuruogu.jpeg
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • moorjohn
    moorjohn Posts: 89
    The test was out of competition.

    They detected EPO.

    EPO is eliminated quite quickly from the body - doesn't show in urine after 12 hours or so?

    Why take EPO when you're not competing?
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    moorjohn wrote:
    The test was out of competition.

    They detected EPO.

    EPO is eliminated quite quickly from the body - doesn't show in urine after 12 hours or so?

    Why take EPO when you're not competing?

    I would assume to keep your levels up for the UCI Passport readings. If you're levels are constantly going up and down - it would raise more flags than if they were at a consistently high level.


    Plus it may help with training?


    Just guessing here.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    The test was OOC, but that doesn't mean he wasn't competing. He had just done the Dauphiné, the Spanish nationals and was a few days away from starting the Tour. Even though EPO is undetectable after 12 hours, the effects last much longer.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    afx237vi wrote:
    The test was OOC, but that doesn't mean he wasn't competing. He had just done the Dauphiné, the Spanish nationals and was a few days away from starting the Tour. Even though EPO is undetectable after 12 hours, the effects last much longer.
    Exactly, you might be run down and tired and with a big race like the Tour looming, a doper won't turn down the chance to top up his blood. Perhaps Astarloza was caught by surprise in the out-of-competition test? Perhaps though he is innocent. The B-sample will soon reveal all.
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    Timoid. wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    So what does Astro-boy mean when he says" If I had taken something I would have given a wrong address [to the controllers]."

    That alone would be a clear breach of the 'wearabouts' clause - wouldn't it?


    Are we to imply that just because he gave the correct address to doping control (as is mandatory) that he is innocent? Isn't that a little like saying "would I have shown up for the race and won that stage if I was guilty?"


    And so on....

    No, he would have got two warnings from the UCI. Deliberately avoiding the testers will get you banned (this happened to the Dutch rider Stefan Van Dijk when the testers saw him legging it) - but you could just say you were running late, stuck in traffic, taking
    a shower, whatever.

    See Victor Conte's "duck and dive" technique.




    As perfected by
    ohuruogu.jpeg

    Why can we just not say no Olympics to cheats?
  • ACMadone
    ACMadone Posts: 300

    See Victor Conte's "duck and dive" technique.

    I read this a while ago on the BBC site. Can't seem to find it at the moment. Do you have a link to it?
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    ACMadone wrote:

    See Victor Conte's "duck and dive" technique.

    I read this a while ago on the BBC site. Can't seem to find it at the moment. Do you have a link to it?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic ... 403158.stm
  • bikerZA
    bikerZA Posts: 314
    afx237vi wrote:
    ACMadone wrote:

    See Victor Conte's "duck and dive" technique.

    I read this a while ago on the BBC site. Can't seem to find it at the moment. Do you have a link to it?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic ... 403158.stm
    That was one hell of a cocktail! It's a wonder he had time to do any training or races with all that drug taking!
    cyclecomparison.com
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Reuters
    610x.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • drenkrom
    drenkrom Posts: 1,062
    Having cute, innocent children behind you while you proclaim your innocence in the face of a positive test is a new one, isn't it?

    Not entirely subtle.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    The look on his face doesn't mesh well with his 'innocence' somehow.
  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    afx237vi wrote:
    ACMadone wrote:

    See Victor Conte's "duck and dive" technique.

    I read this a while ago on the BBC site. Can't seem to find it at the moment. Do you have a link to it?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic ... 403158.stm

    The problem with Conte's description here:

    "Many drug-tested athletes use what I call the "duck and dodge" technique. Several journalists in the UK have recently referred to it as the "duck and dive" technique. This is basically how it works.

    First, the athlete repeatedly calls their own cell phone until the message capacity is full. This way the athlete can claim to the testers that they didn't get a message when they finally decide to make themselves available. Secondly, they provide incorrect information on their whereabouts form. They say they are going to one place and then go to another. Thereafter, they start using testosterone, growth hormone and other drugs for a short cycle of two to three weeks.

    After the athlete discontinues using the drugs for a few days and they know that they will test clean, they become available and resume training at their regular facility.

    Most athletes are tested approximately two times each year on a random out-of -competition basis. If a tester shows up and the athlete is not where they are supposed to be, then the athlete will receive a "missed test". This is the equivalent to receiving "strike one" when up to bat in a baseball game. The current anti-doping rules allow an athlete to have two missed tests in any given eighteen-month period without a penalty or consequence. So, the disadvantage for an athlete having a missed test is that they have one strike against them. The advantage of that missed test is the athlete has now received the benefit of a cycle of steroids. Long story short, an athlete can continue to duck and dive until they have two missed tests, which basically means that they can continue to use drugs until that time. "

    is it bore no relation to how out of competition drug testing worked in the UK. For instance the stuff about the full voicemail is laughable in its irrelevance.
    @stagehopper
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Pokerface wrote:
    The look on his face doesn't mesh well with his 'innocence' somehow.

    So he's guilty because of the look on his face? Now THAT is a strange way putting it.

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