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Today I went to Epic Cycles and I.......

rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
edited February 2010 in Commuting chat
......didn't buy a bike :x

Still, thanks to those whose good advice I followed! (LiT - I did say 'hello from Olivia' to Chris - he went a bit pale and had me escorted from the premises! OK, no he didn't really! He seems to enjoy your mild Viner obsession!)

Anyway, turns out I'm all out proportion as well as being a skinny git. Chris had a Viner Magnifica all ready prepped for me but it turns out my legs are too long! I offered to have them shortened but he seemed to think that a bad idea. We got closer on an Orbea (shorter top tube and all that) but it was still slightly compromised and I just can't get excited by them (although their TT bikes are rather nice!).

So, I think it is bite the bullet time and get one of these: viner-perfecta-or1000.jpg though maybe without the orange bar tape!

Still got to see what the 2010 prices will be and, if still OK (ie not more than twice my original budget.....) get one ordered and wait for delivery which probably won't be til October/November.........(sigh!).

Anyway, it is a far cry from the usual - "How tall are you? - Oh, that'll be the large frame then....." of your average bike shop. It was a great day out, 5 hours in the shop, most of that on the fitting. Certainly well worth 7 hours driving in torrential downpours to get there. I'd thoroughly recommend it though worth mentioning that there isn't much for sale below 4 figures.
Faster than a tent.......
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  • FeltupFeltup Posts: 1,340
    All I can say is mmmm looks nice (apart from the bar tape!)
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

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  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! Excellent... they are so worth the distance.

    Go for it... get the perfecta get the perfecta get the perfecta... you won't regret it!

    The orange bar tape is just not quite the right shade. If it were, I think I'd like it. Orange is a good colour for a bike! :D

    EDIT: Oh and I think Chris probably finds my Viner obsession very... profitable!
  • stuaffstuaff Posts: 1,735
    2010 prices from other makes (as announced) all up. It'll be worth it though......
    I like the bar tape.....
    Dahon Speed Pro TT; Trek Portland
    Viner Magnifica '08 ; Condor Squadra
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  • gabriel959gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    You should have got the Orbea Orca 2010- handmade and painted in Spain, lifetime warranty and ridden by Tour de France riders - Astarloza won a stage in one of those

    They are seriously stiff though - not for the faint hearted.

    The Viners are good bikes though.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • jongingejonginge Posts: 5,945
    gabriel959 wrote:
    You should have got the Orbea Orca 2010- handmade and painted in Spain, lifetime warranty and ridden by Tour de France riders - Astarloza won a stage in one of those

    They are seriously stiff though - not for the faint hearted.

    The Viners are good bikes though.
    Yeah, if i could justify (and afford) another bike I'd get an Orca. They're lovely.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • I think both bike and bar tape look stunning 8)
    Bianchi. There are no alternatives only compromises!
    I RIDE A KONA CADABRA -would you like to come and have a play with my magic link?
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    jonginge wrote:
    gabriel959 wrote:
    You should have got the Orbea Orca 2010- handmade and painted in Spain, lifetime warranty and ridden by Tour de France riders - Astarloza won a stage in one of those

    They are seriously stiff though - not for the faint hearted.

    The Viners are good bikes though.
    Yeah, if i could justify (and afford) another bike I'd get an Orca. They're lovely.

    +1 for the Orca. A cracking looking bike.

    @Rolf - how flexible are they about the specs they set out on their website?
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • cluclu Posts: 89
    +1 for the Viner.

    I've been eyeing them up too, they look sooo nice. The Mitus-Plus for some reason has really caught my eye, have no idea what it's like to ride though.

    Just trying though to find an excuse to spend loads of money next year on a new bike. :?
    2004 Trek 5500 OCLV
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  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! Excellent... they are so worth the distance.

    Go for it... get the perfecta get the perfecta get the perfecta... you won't regret it!

    The orange bar tape is just not quite the right shade. If it were, I think I'd like it. Orange is a good colour for a bike! :D

    EDIT: Oh and I think Chris probably finds my Viner obsession very... profitable!

    So, just in case I'm not clear on this, you think I should get the Perfecta?! :lol:

    Orange is a good colour for a bike - and a hallway too which is the colour I painted mine! And on the subject of both orange and Chris' profits, have you seen the tyres on this?!

    viner-mitus09or-1000.jpg

    gabriel959 wrote:
    You should have got the Orbea Orca 2010- handmade and painted in Spain, lifetime warranty and ridden by Tour de France riders - Astarloza won a stage in one of those

    They are seriously stiff though - not for the faint hearted.

    I still could but Orbeas just don't touch my soul! Besides, the last thing I want is seriously stiff - I'm going carbon to reduce stiffness. I don't weigh much so I need a bit of softness in the frame. Chris was complaining a bit about Orbeas being too stiff!
    cjcp wrote:
    @Rolf - how flexible are they about the specs they set out on their website?

    Totally flexible - they'd probably let you spec a Happy Shopper groupset on a Maxima if you asked nicely!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • gabriel959gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Rolf F wrote:
    Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! Excellent... they are so worth the distance.

    Go for it... get the perfecta get the perfecta get the perfecta... you won't regret it!

    The orange bar tape is just not quite the right shade. If it were, I think I'd like it. Orange is a good colour for a bike! :D

    EDIT: Oh and I think Chris probably finds my Viner obsession very... profitable!

    So, just in case I'm not clear on this, you think I should get the Perfecta?! :lol:

    Orange is a good colour for a bike - and a hallway too which is the colour I painted mine! And on the subject of both orange and Chris' profits, have you seen the tyres on this?!

    viner-mitus09or-1000.jpg

    gabriel959 wrote:
    You should have got the Orbea Orca 2010- handmade and painted in Spain, lifetime warranty and ridden by Tour de France riders - Astarloza won a stage in one of those

    They are seriously stiff though - not for the faint hearted.

    I still could but Orbeas just don't touch my soul! Besides, the last thing I want is seriously stiff - I'm going carbon to reduce stiffness. I don't weigh much so I need a bit of softness in the frame. Chris was complaining a bit about Orbeas being too stiff!
    cjcp wrote:
    @Rolf - how flexible are they about the specs they set out on their website?

    Totally flexible - they'd probably let you spec a Happy Shopper groupset on a Maxima if you asked nicely!

    It is fair enough - if it doesn't touch you, it really doesn't. Funny what you say about Chris, when I went asking them he told me the Orca Evo (the really stiff one) would suit me better than anything else! :)

    I rode an Orca once and it is incredibly fast uphill, faster than my Giant at least. In my opinion the Viners look garish and OTT and the Orcas look classy but hey that is me!

    3708150820_ff97cf8806_o.jpg

    The thing is, if you want to reduce stiffness you should go to Titanium though.[/url]
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    gabriel959 wrote:
    It is fair enough - if it doesn't touch you, it really doesn't. Funny what you say about Chris, when I went asking them he told me the Orca Evo (the really stiff one) would suit me better than anything else! :)

    You probably weigh more than I do! And I know what you mean about the OTTishness of Viners. It might be because I have a Dawes (all sky blue, white lettering) and an Orange P7 (all black, white lettering) that I need something a bit more vivid!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • gabriel959gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    heheh, I do, I am 15st and 6' 6" so big bloke!

    Have you thought about Ti? seriously comfy!!!
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • RoastieRoastie Posts: 1,968
    + another for the Orca - it is a properly gorgeous bike with a properly illustrious race pedigree.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    gabriel959 wrote:
    heheh, I do, I am 15st and 6' 6" so big bloke!

    Have you thought about Ti? seriously comfy!!!

    +1 again (am choppin' and changin' here). I'm seriously considering Ti next time round.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Ignore the Orbea-loving fools! Get the Perfecta! :D

    And I had spotted those tyres, yes, when my ultremos give up the ghost that's what I'll be getting!
  • amneziaamnezia Posts: 590
    Viners are becomming as common as muck all of a sudden :D
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    amnezia wrote:
    Viners are becomming as common as muck all of a sudden :D

    You're just jealous :P
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    gabriel959 wrote:
    heheh, I do, I am 15st and 6' 6" so big bloke!

    Have you thought about Ti? seriously comfy!!!

    Not actually seen anything Ti that particularly takes my fancy. Not seen anything Ti at all come to think of it :lol:

    LiT - get at least 2 sets of those tyres. You'll be so disappointed if next seasons colour isn't orange!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • biondinobiondino Posts: 5,990
    Carbon is the stiffest material there is, though - you can't go to it to reduce stiffness! Well, there might be bikes that fit but they're not the ones you're trying...
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    biondino wrote:
    Carbon is the stiffest material there is, though - you can't go to it to reduce stiffness! Well, there might be bikes that fit but they're not the ones you're trying...

    It's really buzzy alloy I am trying to avoid. I'm used to steel frames and it sounds like carbon will give me a nicer ride than alloy. Any comments on the relative stiffness of the Viner Perfecta and Orbeas much appreciated. Ideally I suppose I'd get a Maxima with extra thin tubing but that isn't going to happen no matter how many times LiT says 'get the Maxima, get the Maxima, get the Maxima' :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    Rolf F wrote:
    biondino wrote:
    Carbon is the stiffest material there is, though - you can't go to it to reduce stiffness! Well, there might be bikes that fit but they're not the ones you're trying...

    It's really buzzy alloy I am trying to avoid. I'm used to steel frames and it sounds like carbon will give me a nicer ride than alloy. Any comments on the relative stiffness of the Viner Perfecta and Orbeas much appreciated. Ideally I suppose I'd get a Maxima with extra thin tubing but that isn't going to happen no matter how many times LiT says 'get the Maxima, get the Maxima, get the Maxima' :lol:

    How stiff do you want the frame to be? The Scott CR1 frame is stiff enough for the Avergae Joe's (i.e. moi) needs, and I can weigh up to 13st. It's significantly cheaper than the Perfecta (that's not to say I'm not staring slightly misty eyed at the Viners and Orbeas :D ), just that you can buy a frame that's cheaper than what you're looking which is plenty stiff enough for your needs.

    An alu frame with good tubing (like Columbus 7005 triple butted) and a carbon fork (and even carbon seat stays to boot) will give you a nice ride.

    Deciding on a bike is an awful experience. Great. But awful. :)
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    cjcp wrote:
    How stiff do you want the frame to be? The Scott CR1 frame is stiff enough for the Avergae Joe's (i.e. moi) needs, and I can weigh up to 13st. It's significantly cheaper than the Perfecta (that's not to say I'm not staring slightly misty eyed at the Viners and Orbeas :D ), just that you can buy a frame that's cheaper than what you're looking which is plenty stiff enough for your needs.

    I can't take Scotts seriously! Just a name thing. Besides, I really just need a few commiserations that I have to get a Perfecta rather than a Magnifica rather than a load of very logical, well reasoned arguments why I should get something cheaper and less Italian!!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    Rolf F wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    How stiff do you want the frame to be? The Scott CR1 frame is stiff enough for the Avergae Joe's (i.e. moi) needs, and I can weigh up to 13st. It's significantly cheaper than the Perfecta (that's not to say I'm not staring slightly misty eyed at the Viners and Orbeas :D ), just that you can buy a frame that's cheaper than what you're looking which is plenty stiff enough for your needs.

    I can't take Scotts seriously! Just a name thing. Besides, I really just need a few commiserations that I have to get a Perfecta rather than a Magnifica rather than a load of very logical, well reasoned arguments why I should get something cheaper and less Italian!!

    Oi! Nothing wrong with Scotts. :wink: :P

    The Perfecta. :)
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Commiserations? Pah, you're getting a better bike! Congratulations are what you need.

    Note how I've assumed you're taking my excellent advice...

    get the perfecta get the perfecta get the perfecta
  • amneziaamnezia Posts: 590
    amnezia wrote:
    Viners are becomming as common as muck all of a sudden :D

    You're just jealous :P
    not really. i have one myself 8)
  • biondinobiondino Posts: 5,990
    Rolf F wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    How stiff do you want the frame to be? The Scott CR1 frame is stiff enough for the Avergae Joe's (i.e. moi) needs, and I can weigh up to 13st. It's significantly cheaper than the Perfecta (that's not to say I'm not staring slightly misty eyed at the Viners and Orbeas :D ), just that you can buy a frame that's cheaper than what you're looking which is plenty stiff enough for your needs.

    I can't take Scotts seriously! Just a name thing. Besides, I really just need a few commiserations that I have to get a Perfecta rather than a Magnifica rather than a load of very logical, well reasoned arguments why I should get something cheaper and less Italian!!

    I know, I was boggling at CJ too. "Sir may be entranced by the Bugatti, but we have a very reasonably priced Volvo which does just as good a job"

    I went from alloy to carbon, Rolf, and if anything the alloy frame has more of a sofa-y feel to it. It's possible there is less buzz on the carbon frame, but that's more than compensated for by the harshness over bigger road imperfections. With the steel fixie, I don't intentionally ride over potholes, but I know if I see one coming I just think "no worries, the bike can handle it" and it's fine.

    I therefore suggest you get this:

    y9be7i56ck_dolomiti_8ix5.jpg

    (I can't apologise for the size as it looks MUCH better than in the smaller pics I considered)
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,111
    You can build a carbon frame to be as stiff or as comfortable as you like pretty much. The Cayo is renowned for being a stiff frame with aggressive geometry isn't it? Whereas something like a Roubaix would be a lot smoother. Definitely worth grilling the salesman a it about how the bike rides, and going for a meaningful test ride if possible.
  • RoastieRoastie Posts: 1,968
    Rolf F wrote:
    I'm used to steel frames and it sounds like carbon will give me a nicer ride than alloy.
    Nothing does steel better than steel.

    Blondie's Bianchi suggestion is, I think, spot on. Or perhaps:

    colnago_master_1.jpg
    Colnago Master X-Light - saw oneof these last night in fact. Easily the best looking bike at the crit.

    Otherwise, if you want a supple magic carpet ride, do check out Ti; brands like Enigma, Litespeed, Seven (edit: or is that Sabbath now?), Lynksey, etc. are all class stuff. I particularly like Litespeed.

    Planet-X (and Van Nicholas) also do a nice Ti, but perhaps the logo on the downtube might be a bit "low rent".
  • biondinobiondino Posts: 5,990
    That's the ugliest top tube ever!

    Sabbath used to be called Sunday :)
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