Recovery problems

freehub

Hi.

My recovery appears to be taking longer.

I suffered from abit of over-training in November time last year as I found when my knee played up and I took some time off and I improved, the same then happened at the beginning of this year and I took more time off, I found I was allot faster, but my recovery time has increased, since I started cycling, after a long ride the next day I could happily go out and do a short ride if I wished, but after one day of recovery I felt fresh and ready to go, but I am noticing it's taking 2 full days off the bike to be fresh again.

I did a TT on Thursday, I then took the whole of Friday off, and on Saturday I did a club run that was 120 miles hilly, the first 60 miles I was flying, but the second 60 my performance really dropped much more than I would normally expect and points towards lack of recovery.

Is their anyway to prompt your body into recovering quicker?


Thanks
Will.

markjohnson-coaching

Hi Will,

Yes........give your body adequate rest & you'll not be playing catch up all the time

It can take up to 180 days to make a full new set of red blood cells!

It also takes time if you are suffering from any level of adrenal fatigue (which sounds highly likely)

Rest as hard as you want to ride! & don't beat your self up about it, think of it as constructive time to make you a better rider!

Food! Eat the best food you can (organic, fresh, local, non de-nurtured)

Ensure good hydration from quality water (not tap water it's full of sh*te)

At least 8 hours quality sleep! from ~10:00-10:30 - 03:00 you get physical repair & from ~03:00- 06:00 your get phycological repair, so make sure your not getting broken sleep or less than 8 hours EVERY night, just half a hour a night can make a huge difference, if you don't believe me try it

I recommend you buy Paul Chek's book "How To Eat Move & Be Healthy" it'll be the best $25 you'll ever spend I promise!

Here's a link to it:

http://www.markjohnson-coaching.350.com/Community.htm

Recovery is one thing you can not rush, be patient & you'll be riding faster than you ever did!

Regards

Mark Johnson
C.H.E.K. HLC & PT
http://www.markjohnson-coaching.350.com/home_page.htm

freehub

Thanks thats a great post. I'll try to remember about that book for when I get some money, cant afford it right now.

I sleep allot, I usually go to sleep around 12, but it takes me between 30mins and 3 hours sometimes to get to sleep. Anything over 10 hours I get headaches due to oversleeping.

I'm in abit of a predicament now. I like the Thursday TT, but I also like the Saturday runs and wish to do them every week, but if I need 2 days recovery at the moment, then it means suffering the last miles and maybe not doing my body not much good. If I however do interval training on a Saturday, 10*4mins and total around 32 miles in the end, I find one day recovery is adequate as it's only a very short distance.

So it seems I might have to forefit either Saturday ride or the TT, but maybe it would not be so bad just for another 3 weeks? as there is only another 3 tt's and maybe it might help me improve?

Anonymous

Will, sometimes you actually need to take a week off even though you may feel fine. Particularly after a week when you've done a TT then a 120 week ride as well as other training.

You won't lose fitness in that week and you will feel better for it.

Bear in mind I've had three months off and a lot of muscle degradation yet my 10 mile tt time is over two minutes better than it was last year!

Puzzler

I'd also add that your intervals are a bit too plentiful.
If you're aiming to increase your 10tt times then I'd suggest 5-6 intervals of 4 mins at a higher intensity than your current 10 pace.
Ten intervals are too many imho.

SBezza

A TT shouldn't cause many issues, unless it is a long one, I did a 10mTT on Saturday and was well recovered by the next morning to do a 190km sportive, so I don't think doing both should be an issue. I took Monday off the bike, but could have quite happily gone out on the bike today without any problems.

Maybe you are coming down with something, or your body is tired from rides in the weeks before this week. How often do you do a 120 mile hilly ride, if it isn't a regular sort of mileage, I guess you would slow down, I know I would, especially if the first part was at a fair lick.

I would keep an eye on it, but this week you might be perfectly fine, and it might just have been one of those days.

Anonymous

Or you may have swine flu.

freehub

SBezza wrote:

A TT shouldn't cause many issues, unless it is a long one, I did a 10mTT on Saturday and was well recovered by the next morning to do a 190km sportive, so I don't think doing both should be an issue. I took Monday off the bike, but could have quite happily gone out on the bike today without any problems.

Maybe you are coming down with something, or your body is tired from rides in the weeks before this week. How often do you do a 120 mile hilly ride, if it isn't a regular sort of mileage, I guess you would slow down, I know I would, especially if the first part was at a fair lick.

I would keep an eye on it, but this week you might be perfectly fine, and it might just have been one of those days.

100+ is every saturday.

each thursday is 55-65 miles as I ride to and from the TT, I go quite quickly there due to the tailwind, and after the TT I like to push it back too.

SBezza

freehub wrote:

SBezza wrote:

A TT shouldn't cause many issues, unless it is a long one, I did a 10mTT on Saturday and was well recovered by the next morning to do a 190km sportive, so I don't think doing both should be an issue. I took Monday off the bike, but could have quite happily gone out on the bike today without any problems.

Maybe you are coming down with something, or your body is tired from rides in the weeks before this week. How often do you do a 120 mile hilly ride, if it isn't a regular sort of mileage, I guess you would slow down, I know I would, especially if the first part was at a fair lick.

I would keep an eye on it, but this week you might be perfectly fine, and it might just have been one of those days.

100+ is every saturday.

each thursday is 55-65 miles as I ride to and from the TT, I go quite quickly there due to the tailwind, and after the TT I like to push it back too.

Well have a recovery ride home, and don't go so fast to the TT

freehub

On the way I was riding steady. On the way back I'm still in the buzz from a TT and find it hard to not go fast/

Puzzler

I have a feeling that no matter what anyone suggests you'll still do whatever you see fit.
If someone says do 5 miles you'll do 10, two rests days you'll do one, less miles you'll do more etc etc.

freehub

You're wrong.

I have a feeling you are just here to stir **** and start arguments.

Now if you can kindly vacate the thread to never reply again that would be great.


Thanks.

a_n_t

softlad

and they're off again..!

freehub

softlad wrote:

and they're off again..!

Sorry but I'm not the one who waltzes into another persons thread and sparks off arguments with trolling crap talk saying things about me that are not true.

Mettan

freehub wrote:

Hi.

My recovery appears to be taking longer.

I suffered from abit of over-training in November time last year as I found when my knee played up and I took some time off and I improved, the same then happened at the beginning of this year and I took more time off, I found I was allot faster, but my recovery time has increased, since I started cycling, after a long ride the next day I could happily go out and do a short ride if I wished, but after one day of recovery I felt fresh and ready to go, but I am noticing it's taking 2 full days off the bike to be fresh again.

I did a TT on Thursday, I then took the whole of Friday off, and on Saturday I did a club run that was 120 miles hilly, the first 60 miles I was flying, but the second 60 my performance really dropped much more than I would normally expect and points towards lack of recovery.

Is their anyway to prompt your body into recovering quicker?


Thanks
Will.

120m is a considerable ride - if it was me, I'd do the TT on Thursday and then a 50 or 60 miler on Saturday or Sunday - you can make nice progress (both cardio and power) doing 50/60 milers regularly. Regards recovery, sometimes 1 full day off isn't enough - sometimes you really do need 2 full days off, to get that fresh "stocked up" feeling back in the legs (muscles) - seems quite normal to me.

Alex_Simmons/RST

This is an area where knowledge of the application of the impulse-response model of training (where one tracks their chronic and acute training loads) can make a really, really big difference to understanding what's going on.

It's not the be all and end all but it is a powerful 'scope with which to spot patterns in training that lead to such sensations and enables you to plan properly to avoid replicating them in the future.

Of course if your diary is very detailed and complete, then you may be able to pick out the signs from your notes about how you are feeling and the training in the 3 months prior that lead up to that point, but duration or distance data really doesn't cut it.

Stress of any given ride is a function of duration, (relative) intensity and variability of effort. Overlayed on that are the other life factors as already mentioned (sleep, other stresses, illness, diet etc).

To really get the ideal view, one needs to have an estimate of their daily training stress, which is best provided by power meter data, but in lieu of that you may want to consider a proxy known as TRIMPS.

Certainly I recall some years back when I first put previous season's data (mine and others) through the mincer, it was scary at how well it showed up the good and bad patterns with training. You could instantly correlate certain patterns with good and poor performance as well periods of illness or increased susceptibility to illness.

IOW, what I am saying is the model provides excellent guidance on what is a sustainable workload and when one is likely to fall into a deep hole if you keep doing what you've been doing - before you actually go over the edge so to speak. Helps to assess how much recovery is really needed along the way.

sheffsimon

markjohnson-coaching wrote:

Hi Will,

Yes........give your body adequate rest & you'll not be playing catch up all the time

It can take up to 180 days to make a full new set of red blood cells!

It also takes time if you are suffering from any level of adrenal fatigue (which sounds highly likely)

Rest as hard as you want to ride! & don't beat your self up about it, think of it as constructive time to make you a better rider!

Food! Eat the best food you can (organic, fresh, local, non de-nurtured)

Ensure good hydration from quality water (not tap water it's full of sh*te)

At least 8 hours quality sleep! from ~10:00-10:30 - 03:00 you get physical repair & from ~03:00- 06:00 your get phycological repair, so make sure your not getting broken sleep or less than 8 hours EVERY night, just half a hour a night can make a huge difference, if you don't believe me try it

I recommend you buy Paul Chek's book "How To Eat Move & Be Healthy" it'll be the best $25 you'll ever spend I promise!

Here's a link to it:

http://www.markjohnson-coaching.350.com/Community.htm

Recovery is one thing you can not rush, be patient & you'll be riding faster than you ever did!

Regards

Mark Johnson
C.H.E.K. HLC & PT
http://www.markjohnson-coaching.350.com/home_page.htm

Like what?

vorsprung

SheffSimon wrote:

markjohnson-coaching wrote:

Hi Will,

Ensure good hydration from quality water (not tap water it's full of sh*te)

Like what?

Bullshit I think

Bhima

Yo Will, you should come down to my gym one time mate - get your legs in that Ice Bath and Sauna for an hour or two. If they don't feel like jelly and totally tension-free afterwards, i'll eat my hat.

I remember listening to some old pro rider in the 90s talking about recovery. He said something about cycling as a job being a win/win situation - if you wake up in the morning and feel great, you can go out and ride, but if you feel tired, it's actually part of your job to take it easy for another 24 hours.

If I have a hard session, i'll sometimes take 2 days off. It's normal. Sometimes 3 days off if it's super hard, but on the 3rd day i'll go swimming or something to keep me active. If, on the 3rd day, I need to still recover and don't feel up for any exercise at all, I know that I didn't drink/eat enough after the ride. Thankfully, this doesn't happen much anymore.

freehub

Maybe but I'm not into paying a subscription fee for the gym and I'm not in Manchester atm.

Don't like the sound of an ice bath, usually after a ride I have a cool shower and it frees up my legs for about 15mins then they just tense up again.

Bhima

I can get you in free (once). Don't knock it till' you've tried it. Sounds like you need to stretch more.

There was some programme on Eurosport recently which mentioned that some of the professionals stretch for a couple of hours while watching TV and stuff.

chrisw12

Bhima wrote:

I remember listening to some old pro rider in the 90s talking about recovery.

Bhima. were you alive in the 90's? Surely you weren't taking advice from an old pro when you were a toddler?

chrisw12

'Ensure good hydration from quality water (not tap water it's full of sh*te) '

What exactly is quality water? Is it like h2ooooo. Is it like a different hydrogen atom or something.

Excuse my ignorance but didn't some 'scientists' claim they could create nuclear fission with heavy water. Is this where I'm going wrong, Do I need heavy/quality water so that I can create fission in my muscles?

Perhaps I can use e=mc^2 then to calculate my energy requirements.

Bhima

chrisw12 wrote:

Bhima. were you alive in the 90's?

I was alive in the 80s mate.

softlad

markjohnson-coaching wrote:

Food! Eat the best food you can (organic, fresh, local, non de-nurtured)

Ensure good hydration from quality water (not tap water it's full of sh*te)

do you mean like, donuts made with organic flour and filled with custard made with locally-sourced organic milk..??

also - like others have said - a definition of 'quality water' would be useful and interesting...

a_n_t

No wonder I feel good, I regularly have a weeks rest!

shockedsoshocked

Bhima wrote:

Yo Will, you should come down to my gym one time mate - get your legs in that Ice Bath and Sauna for an hour or two. If they don't feel like jelly and totally tension-free afterwards, i'll eat my hat.

I remember listening to some old pro rider in the 90s talking about recovery. He said something about cycling as a job being a win/win situation - if you wake up in the morning and feel great, you can go out and ride, but if you feel tired, it's actually part of your job to take it easy for another 24 hours.

If I have a hard session, i'll sometimes take 2 days off. It's normal. Sometimes 3 days off if it's super hard, but on the 3rd day i'll go swimming or something to keep me active. If, on the 3rd day, I need to still recover and don't feel up for any exercise at all, I know that I didn't drink/eat enough after the ride. Thankfully, this doesn't happen much anymore.

Instead of having days off completely, you'd be much better off going for a spin, even if it's just for an hour or so to the cafe and back for instance. Just little ring it. And how old are you, 20, 21? You shouldn't need 2 or 3 days off even after a hard session. Bloody hell, if you start racing and do that you'll get about 1 day of training in a week.

freehub

I tend not to cycle on my recovery days as I use these days to rest my knee.

shockedsoshocked

freehub wrote:

I tend not to cycle on my recovery days as I use these days to rest my knee.

Well that's a problem in itself!

Have you been to the doctors?

bobpzero

this kind of water? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaaxtxkJqKg

well the stuff i use is powerbar protein plus and use the natures kiss - herbal rub on the legs does help. tho ice bath and sauna might be more cost effective. maybe one thing to avoid is going off at the start like a scalded cat?