Garmin Bashing

lfcquin
lfcquin Posts: 470
edited July 2009 in Pro race
What's the deal with the Garmin bashing going on over on Twitter this evening?

It seems Mr Armstrong is not happy that Hincapie is not in Yellow tonight and is blaming Garmin for leading the chase from 50k out. All the loyal Armostrong followers are jumping on the bandwagon. I can't understand it. I am sure that Garmin had their reasons for supporting the chase, and in any case. Its a race and I don't see why Hincapie "deserves" Yellow.
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Comments

  • lfcquin wrote:
    What's the deal with the Garmin bashing going on over on Twitter this evening?

    It seems Mr Armstrong is not happy that Hincapie is not in Yellow tonight and is blaming Garmin for leading the chase from 50k out. All the loyal Armostrong followers are jumping on the bandwagon. I can't understand it. I am sure that Garmin had their reasons for supporting the chase, and in any case. Its a race and I don't see why Hincapie "deserves" Yellow.

    With no chance to reel in the gap i don't understand what Garmin had to gain from chasing that far out.

    Astana had managed up to that point so the lead wouldn't get out of hand.

    Hincapie is one of the greatest lunch pale riders of all time and the peloton should have honored him with a day in yellow.
  • garmin chased as didnt want to risk wiggins losing time as he did the other day (before 15 sec decision was reversed)
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    It was Ag2r doing the chase and they did most of the work. If Columbia are looking for the missing five seconds, they should look more closely at the work done by their very own riders in the last 2km to put Cavendish into position, their sprint train easily gobbled up the precious seconds.
  • garmin chased as didnt want to risk wiggins losing time as he did the other day (before 15 sec decision was reversed)

    don't be silly. you don't chace from 50k out to avoid a spit at the finish line.
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,558
    Still a bit much to chase from 10k out though, which is how far it was (AG2R was the 40k previous)

    He deserves yellow because of the service he's given to the sport over the years, but like someone said earlier he seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory again. He should have buried himself once he realised the stage win had gone.

    For Tour de France 2009 read Paris Roubaix 2002 & 2006 (though it wasn't his fault). ANy others?
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    There are plenty of people who deserve the yellow jersey but this is a race, not a popularity contest or a celebrity awards dinner. The jersey is not for Astana to allocate.
  • lfcquin
    lfcquin Posts: 470
    Hincapie is one of the greatest lunch pale riders of all time and the peloton should have honored him with a day in yellow.

    I can't argue with that, but I still don't think there is room for sentiment at this stage of the TDF. My view is Yellow should be passed on merit. The other teams have to race to meet their own needs and Armstrong can't go slagging them off for that.
  • Kléber wrote:
    It was Ag2r doing the chase and they did most of the work. If Columbia are looking for the missing five seconds, they should look more closely at the work done by their very own riders in the last 2km to put Cavendish into position, their sprint train easily gobbled up the precious seconds.

    again, don't be silly. Columbia sitting up wouldn't not have made anyone else sit up. There is always going to be a bunch sprint.

    This was messed up by garmin much further out. Why would they pull at the front at all in the last 50, 40, 30, k's. You don't set up sprints from that far out and noboy in the break was a treat to anybody on Garmin.

    I'd like to hear what they have to say. It looks like dirty pool from a team that's supposed to be all about fair play.
  • lfcquin wrote:
    Hincapie is one of the greatest lunch pale riders of all time and the peloton should have honored him with a day in yellow.

    I can't argue with that, but I still don't think there is room for sentiment at this stage of the TDF. My view is Yellow should be passed on merit. The other teams have to race to meet their own needs and Armstrong can't go slagging them off for that.

    What needs did they meet?

    Lance is usually pretty good at coming up with benefit of doubt kind of answers even if he doesn't buy them, but this one just left him shaking his head.
  • Kléber wrote:
    There are plenty of people who deserve the yellow jersey but this is a race, not a popularity contest or a celebrity awards dinner. The jersey is not for Astana to allocate.

    It's not about Astana, Hincapie is very well respected by the peloton. Without help from Gamin defense of yellow would have failed.
  • lfcquin
    lfcquin Posts: 470
    What needs did they meet?

    I don't know and it would be interesting to find out, though I am sure that they didn't send their riders to the front on the basis that they wanted to stop George getting in Yellow. You wouldn't waste that effort just before the mountains without good cause. If it was Voigt, Moncoutie, Voeckler or Moreau would Armstrong have shown the same sentiment?
  • deal
    deal Posts: 857
    thats racing, for whatever reason Garmin felt like riding, maybe this was in part due to Cavendish and his big mouth!
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Werent Silence Lotto on the front towards the end as well? Or was that just a case of Evans trying to avoid a similar crash to the end he had a few days ago?
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    But Ag2r were doing all the work. Garmin only joined in later. For sure, there wasn't much of a purpose to this. But I maintain that Columbia's sprint train closed down a lot more than enough seconds, there's no need to a media spat.
  • Eurostar
    Eurostar Posts: 1,806
    Wiggins was interviewed by Ned Boulting just after the finish. Who saw it? I thought I heard him say that his manager told everyone to chase because he didn't want Columbia to have yellow.
    <hr>
    <h6>What\'s the point of going out? We\'re just going to end up back here anyway</h6>
  • lfcquin
    lfcquin Posts: 470
    Eurostar wrote:
    Wiggins was interviewed by Ned Boulting just after the finish. Who saw it? I thought I heard him say that his manager told everyone to chase because he didn't want Columbia to have yellow.

    If that's true then I might just readjust my opinion.... Although I agree with Kleber that Columbia have only themselves to blame.
  • Eurostar wrote:
    Wiggins was interviewed by Ned Boulting just after the finish. Who saw it? I thought I heard him say that his manager told everyone to chase because he didn't want Columbia to have yellow.

    Columbia will have very hard feeling about this.

    Maybe a little hate between them will be fun to watch but I still feel terrible for George.
  • deal
    deal Posts: 857
    Eurostar wrote:
    Wiggins was interviewed by Ned Boulting just after the finish. Who saw it? I thought I heard him say that his manager told everyone to chase because he didn't want Columbia to have yellow.

    Columbia will have very hard feeling about this.

    Maybe a little hate between them will be fun to watch but I still feel terrible for George.

    erm where have you been all year? Columbia (and Cav in particular) cant give an interview without mentioning Garmin.
  • Eurostar
    Eurostar Posts: 1,806
    I can't guarantee it's true. I didn't record it so I can't check. But somebody else must have seen it? It was on ITV4. Shortly before that Sherwen had speculated that Garmin might not want Columbia to have yellow because they are a rival American team. So perhaps it's all about fighting for headlines to please sponsors.
    <hr>
    <h6>What\'s the point of going out? We\'re just going to end up back here anyway</h6>
  • Tim Farr
    Tim Farr Posts: 665
    For me Columbia cocked up - Hincapie should have got to the finish asap instead of racing for the stage win.
    T Farr
  • deal wrote:
    Eurostar wrote:
    Wiggins was interviewed by Ned Boulting just after the finish. Who saw it? I thought I heard him say that his manager told everyone to chase because he didn't want Columbia to have yellow.

    Columbia will have very hard feeling about this.

    Maybe a little hate between them will be fun to watch but I still feel terrible for George.

    erm where have you been all year? Columbia (and Cav in particular) cant give an interview without mentioning Garmin.

    And Zabrinsky had things to say to but I saw that as friendly rivalry trash talking.
    This is a whole new level. Yellow is no joke.
  • Moomaloid
    Moomaloid Posts: 2,040
    [/quote]

    Columbia will have very hard feeling about this.

    Maybe a little hate between them will be fun to watch but I still feel terrible for George.[/quote]

    Yeah gutted for him, but so what? he doesn't deserve it anymore than any other rider, and he should've gone after Ivanov shouldn't he. Its a blooming bike race, which seems to have been forgotten sooo many times this year...

    I gotta go with Kleber on this. Nobody should expect favours really should they..

    I wish he'd got it, but there should be no blame put on people racing...
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Hincapie did have one concern though. He had to watch Le Mevel as there was only 40 seconds between them on GC, If he had time trialled and then people had leapt out, worked together and got away then Le Mevel could have pulled some time back. However, i think 40 seconds would be pretty unlikely given that it was less than 10K to go.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,573
    [

    What needs did they meet?

    unsettle Astana and its diplomatic connections with in the Peloton works for me...

    anything that weakens your opponent?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Hincapie's had yellow before in the tour. Besides, his bad attitude towards Evans the other day showed him in a poor light. Maybe thats why one of the Silence Lotto riders came to the front towards the end?
  • Its the biggest bike race in the world ffs, not the George Hincapie benefit ride.
  • rjh299
    rjh299 Posts: 721
    Wiggins did say the team was ordered to ride to stop HTC getting yellow. Yank infighting. As said, garmin and HTC have certain rivalry. There's loads of sub plots in TDF, this being another.
  • deal
    deal Posts: 857
    Hincapie's had yellow before in the tour. Besides, his bad attitude towards Evans the other day showed him in a poor light. Maybe thats why one of the Silence Lotto riders came to the front towards the end?

    good point, didnt pick up on that myself but it does makes sence. Was it not two Silence Lotto guys? Evans and another rider
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    deal wrote:
    Hincapie's had yellow before in the tour. Besides, his bad attitude towards Evans the other day showed him in a poor light. Maybe thats why one of the Silence Lotto riders came to the front towards the end?

    good point, didnt pick up on that myself but it does makes sence. Was it not two Silence Lotto guys? Evans and another rider

    Yes, it was two but i didnt see Evans do any work so thats why i said one
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    I think Kleber is correct here. Columbia should look in the mirror.

    And Hincapie deserves nothing...in fact, he has always gotten a free ride in the media. The fact that Stapleton hired him speaks volumes about Columbia's "clean" team.