So what's he on now, lads?

pottssteve
pottssteve Posts: 4,069
edited July 2009 in Pro race
Tenth in the individual TT, beating Zabriskie, Millar etc.

First in the TTT

Equal first on time with a man 10 years his junior.

What's giving him the edge now, chaps?
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Comments

  • singlespeedexplosif
    singlespeedexplosif Posts: 1,564
    drugs. same as usual.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    A unique combination of Trek technology and Nike Dri-Fit©? Everyone knows Trek bikes are faster.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    I was thinking on my cycle into work that possibly the peleton is cleaner than in 2005......but I was tired and it was raining.
  • pottssteve
    pottssteve Posts: 4,069
    singlespeed,

    Could you elaborate, please? Which ones, precisely? Is everyone else on an inferior brand? I'm intrigued... :?
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • singlespeedexplosif
    singlespeedexplosif Posts: 1,564
    Could you elaborate, please? Which ones, precisely? Is everyone else on an inferior brand? I'm intrigued... Confused

    various ones. And no, most other riders are on the same ones.
  • TarmacExpert
    TarmacExpert Posts: 204
    He has got to where he is in this tour without it having much to do with physiological performance. His individual TT was solid, but not spectacular, at 40 seconds behind the fastest rider. The team TT undoubtedly owed a lot to the number of strong riders in the Astana team. Without power meter data from each rider, it's not possible to know just how much Lance contributed. And gaining 40 seconds over Contador on stage 3 didn't have much to do with physiology at all, he was just in the right place to get into the large breakaway group.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    TarmacExpert wrote:
    . And gaining 40 seconds over Contador on stage 3 didn't have much to do with physiology at all, he was just in the right place to get into the large breakaway group.

    If he hadn't done that, Contador would be in yellow now.

    Which is interesting
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Perhaps, after the event it will become apparent that Contador was always the leader and Armstrong was the decoy and preventing Contador getting into yellow was part of the plan to save the team from working before the mountains.

    Perhaps.
  • reppohkcor
    reppohkcor Posts: 111
    iainf72 wrote:
    TarmacExpert wrote:
    . And gaining 40 seconds over Contador on stage 3 didn't have much to do with physiology at all, he was just in the right place to get into the large breakaway group.

    If he hadn't done that, Contador would be in yellow now.

    Which is interesting

    Don't you mean if Lance AND Cancellara hadn't??
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    reppohkcor wrote:
    Don't you mean if Lance AND Cancellara hadn't??

    Yeah, sorry, if the race hadn't split up.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • pottssteve
    pottssteve Posts: 4,069
    singlespeed,
    Ah, most enlightening. Thanks for clearing that up.

    expert,
    "He has got to where he is in this tour without it having much to do with physiological performance. " How does time trialling 15km in 20 minutes 12 seconds not have much to do with physiological performance?
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Is he still pals with Michele Ferrari?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,481
    He's a close family friend I believe.
  • pottssteve
    pottssteve Posts: 4,069
    Kléber,
    Are you implying that Mr. Armstrong has access to performance enhancing substances supplied by a doctor without anyone else's knowledge or without the access being open to any other riders? And if so, what kind of substance would, in effect, roll back the years so he can better the performance of much younger professional athletes?
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    You guys are so cynical. Shall I tell you what he's on? He's on his bike. In the rain. Dude.

    Simeoni says MF is still the most important man in cycling. So hmmmm.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    pottssteve, age doesn't matter so much, ask Voigt, Goubert, Cuesta, all older than him I think.

    I'm not implying anything but I'd certainly like to know if he is using the same coaching staff as before, it is highly relevant to know if Dr Ferrari is on board or not.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Come on, Poststeve, surely you realise by now that LA is uniquely evil in every respect, and that without him the tour would be entirely populated by clean, gentlemanly riders who would always say "no, after you, I insist" at every turn?
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Andyp, of this parish, had the question about working with Ferrari asked by Procycling. Lance said no.

    Mind you, the same Lance said he'd definately be working with Don Catlin so make of that what you will.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,481
    LA was asked by me, via the proxy of Procycling, if he would work with Ferrari again. He said no. (This was right before he threw a hissy fit after Iain's question).

    The question is, do we believe him?
  • pottssteve
    pottssteve Posts: 4,069
    I agree with this guy...

    "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us". ~Herman Hesse
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • greeny12
    greeny12 Posts: 759
    reppohkcor wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    TarmacExpert wrote:
    . And gaining 40 seconds over Contador on stage 3 didn't have much to do with physiology at all, he was just in the right place to get into the large breakaway group.

    If he hadn't done that, Contador would be in yellow now.

    Which is interesting

    Don't you mean if Lance AND Cancellara hadn't??

    Yes, but if Lance hadn't sent the two Astana guys to the front when he did the Columbia break would have been reeled in - the pack was closing fast at that point.

    Nothing Cancellara could have done either, he had no team mates there. And becasue they had to do some of the chasing it f*cked Saxo Bank as well - you could see their scandos all over the place at the front of the chasing pack trying to limit the Schlecks' losses. That definitely cost them in the TTT - without Spartacus they would have been hammered.

    At the end of the day the only real beneficiary of that split was Lance - who thinks Cav would not have won that stage anyway? Also Columbia would have been a lot less knackered for the TTT as well, possibly pushing Martin into yellow.

    It's just like the old days, everyhtihing seems to be going LA's way....so far!
    My cycle racing blog: http://cyclingapprentice.wordpress.com/

    If you live in or near Sussex, check this out:
    http://ontherivet.ning.com/
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,481
    Why do people always assume those who don't support LA, hate him? I don't. I don't have much respect for him but that's very different from hating someone.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Quite. I don't hate Armstrong at all. Just a bit disappointed in him, I regret his work with Ferrari and find things like his media blacklists all a bit tiresome.
  • TarmacExpert
    TarmacExpert Posts: 204
    pottssteve wrote:
    expert,
    "He has got to where he is in this tour without it having much to do with physiological performance. " How does time trialling 15km in 20 minutes 12 seconds not have much to do with physiological performance?
    He was 40 seconds behind the fastest rider, which is a huge margin in 20 minutes. That is a 3.3% performance deficit. If someone ran a 100m race and was 0.33 seconds slower than the winner would you think their performance was indicative of them having an amazing physiology?
  • Tempestas
    Tempestas Posts: 486
    Do people still think LA would return to the sport and take drugs? Why would he? If he has 7 TDF victories without a positive dope test already what would be the point in risking them now? Especially knowing full well how all the ‘expert doctors’ on cycle forums can test him from over 1000 miles away in an arm chair and provide 100% positive proof. Speculation and un-proven rumours have ruined a great riders achievements in my opinion, so far in this tour he has proven he rides with his head as much as his legs, he rode a steady prologue, he took the crosswinds into account and made the break while it was Contador who let the wheel go....and then rode a solid Team TT in which Contador could be seen to be driving hard at the end of the stage. One thing LA is good at is ‘using’ the press, this Tour harks back to Hinault/Lemond and I am loving it so far.
  • pottssteve
    pottssteve Posts: 4,069
    Right,
    My wife's back from the shops now so I'm off for a cup of tea and a chat.


    My work here is done.

    You can always count on LA to get a bit of a discussion going.....
    :lol:
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I hate him.

    Black, long socks? I mean, FFS. It's unforgivable.

    :wink:

    I don't make any kind of emotional investment in riders.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Quite Tempestas, a leopard can change its spots.
    leopard_changes_its_spots_331955.jpg

    Many believe the allegations that he cheated to win his previous editions, perhaps he fancies a clean challenge this time, what do you think?
  • tarquin_foxglove
    tarquin_foxglove Posts: 554
    TarmacExpert wrote:
    He was 40 seconds behind the fastest rider, which is a huge margin in 20 minutes.
    Not bad for an old man & a lot better than some younger fitter riders who haven't retired & made a come back.
    TarmacExpert wrote:
    If someone ran a 100m race and was 0.33 seconds slower than the winner would you think their performance was indicative of them having an amazing physiology?
    A 100m in 10.33 seconds at the Beijing games would have got you out of the heats & into the quarter finals, at which point you would have finished outside the top 4.

    So not quite one of the 16 fastest men on earth, yeah I think that is a pretty amazing physiology.
  • TarmacExpert
    TarmacExpert Posts: 204
    tarquin_foxglove wrote:
    So not quite one of the 16 fastest men on earth, yeah I think that is a pretty amazing physiology.
    Amazing in absolute terms, but not relative terms. We are talking about someone who has won the Tour de France 7 times. Clearly he has an amazing physiology in absolute terms.

    What I meant was that the physiology he has displayed so far in the Tour, is nothing special compared to what we might expect from someone with his past achievements.

    To continue the 100m running analogy, if Usain Bolt retired, then came back after a few years and ran 10.00, we wouldn't be asking what he was on, we'd be asking what the heck was wrong with him.

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