Marmotte 2010..
Comments
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chaletverney wrote:Hi there - well having ridden the course in the event and a number of times training I would suggest you ride the course or at least a significant part of it (maybe the last half if you don't have the endurance for the whole thing) at least once prior to the event. All time dependent of course but the climbs are so much harder than the UK that you can't beat the real thing to familiarise yourself with the terrain proper.
A hilly training camp mid season (May/June)... e.g. Murcia / Sierra Nevada way is a good idea with excellent weather normally ... 2 weeks better than one of course and be fit in the first place otherwise you may burn out instead of benefit!
There are so many pieces of advice myself and others can give you - to be honest though it is a little foolhardy as only you know your level and lifestyle ... best advice anyone can give really is to hook up with a qualified coach (British Cycling offers a number of contacts here, some may even be happy to help for free!)
All the best for next year - if you are considering accom v.near to the course then I have a chalet just off the col du glandon climb! - www.vaujanychalet.com
Best wishes,
MartynWhat I notice is the large number of people who do the major events like the Marmotte or the Étape as their first experience of these monster climbs. It's like someone deciding to try mountaineering and heading off to tackle Everest or the Eiger.
It's still early summer, there's plenty of time before the autumn to fit in a week or a long weekend and tour about on the bike sampling some 10, 15 or 20 km ascents in the Alps or Pyrenees before the onset of autmn and winter training.
that would be ideal...but some of us have a tight budget & cant spend £000's of "training" trips before the actual trip itself!!0 -
of course it doesn't have to be the Alps. I'm thinking of trying to fit in a weekend at Le Grand Ballon instead as it isn't as far.
Does anyone know what the closest mountain is to the South Coast of England ?0 -
You can train/prepare for events like the Marmotte in the UK. Its just requires a bit more planning and concentration.
There are 4 things you need to be able to do -
1. Ride constantly for 1-2 hours with no rest - 25 mile time trials are great training for this. But any 1-2 hour ride will do, just make sure you never stop pedalling hard, even work downhill
2. Eat/drink correctly: Sportives can help with this. I would especially recommend the Dragon and Tour of Black Mountain (though latter bit late in year) since they use hills similar in pitch to what you get in France. (Even if you dont do the event you can download the course and ride it any time of the year)
3. Get the gearing on your bike right. Simple one this though biggest mistake most riders make. Just put the lowest gears possible on your bike. Ideally use a triple with 30x27 or 29.
4. Descending. This is the one thing you cant really train for here. The sportives above will help though. Also read advice like here http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/2006/descend.htm. If first timer its worth getting to event a couple of days early simply to get some practice in descending.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Yes and do this ride at full speed, you should be suffering from the start but be at the right pace that you can sustain for the next 60-120 minutes.bahzob wrote:1. Ride constantly for 1-2 hours with no rest - 25 mile time trials are great training for this. But any 1-2 hour ride will do, just make sure you never stop pedalling hard, even work downhill
I agree again, I remember the first time I went up a climb I was enjoying it and the first five seconds of the descent were a relief and then suddenly I was doing 45mph down a twisty and wet 3 metre wide road with a 400m drop off the side. It takes a bit to get used to this, the more relaxed you are the better.bahzob wrote:4. Descending. This is the one thing you cant really train for here. The sportives above will help though. Also read advice like here http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/2006/descend.htm. If first timer its worth getting to event a couple of days early simply to get some practice in descending.0 -
From my experience of continental cyclosportives, DNF figures often include Did-Not-Starts, and of actual starters, actual DNFs are usually only 5-15%. And these DNFs will include those who did finish but outside the time limit, like mentioned in BS147’s post (9 July).topcattim wrote:
Yeah, I'd wondered that. Approx 5000 finishers. I wonder, of the missing 2000, how many were non-starters as opposed to non-finishers? There must have been a few DNFs but for 2000 to DNF, there would have been loads more exhausted and abandoning riders along the route than I actually saw.ju5t1n wrote:Looking at the results it seems that about 2000 people didn't finish, can that be right?
Also, unless they make public a full starter list as back-up of what they say, when organisers speak of the number of people due to take part, they often mean the maximum number permitted, not the number who have actually registered. Thus when the results are published, there appears to be a high drop-out figure, but it's not true.0 -
I doubt if your mate was listed as a non-finisher, if he was down as a randonneur from the beginning, because these are registered separately.maddog 2 wrote:I thought about this but figured that maybe some of the 'non-finishers' were actually down as 'randoneurs', and thus didn't receive an official time, even though they rode and finished the ride. This could be b@llox of course.
My mate was down as a randoneur as he hadn't produced his doctors cert at the start.
Randonneur at the Marmotte usually refers to those who chose to do the Rando-Marmotte, where you’re not timed and can start off the morning beforehand. Although you don’t have to start that early if you don’t want; you can even start as late as the main cyclosportive if you wish, which it sounds like your mate did. (When I did a 230 km/4300 m ride of this type a few years ago, not the Rando-Marmotte, I started late afternoon. It was mid-June, when evenings are long, so no problem to cover 120 km before dark.).
Rides like these, spread over two days, with an overnight underway, in Valloire in the case of the Rando-Marmotte, are mainly orientated at those who want to do the event at their own pace, maybe as thinking themselves too slow to manage to finish within the cut-off time. But there are advantages.
Apart from being able to spread your energy over two days, the advantages of the Rando-Marmotte include descending the cols without being surrounded by thousands rushing to get good times, and then having the better faster riders as company you when you reach the Alpe d’Huez climb, perhaps inspiring you on. If you’ve no experience of Alpine climbs or competitive cyclosportives, it also allows you to ride the route without stress.
Included in the entry fee is the taking of your overnight bag from start to intermediate stop, and then next day from there to (near) the finish, so in the case of the Rand-Marmotte, from Bourg d’Oisans to Valloire, and then the next day from Valloire back to Bourg d’Oisans.
At these two-day rides, you often have to find your own accomodation, but sometimes the organiser offers accomodation as an option. When I did my above-mentioned 2-day ride, I was offered half-board in a dormitory in a youth hostel at a very cheap price. It sounded fine and I only didn’t take it as I was meeting my wife just after the halfway point and we’d already arranged a cheap hotel.
I think there is a youth hostel at Valloire so the Rando-Marmotte organisers may have offered an overnight there as option.0 -
grimpeur wrote:Folks should head out there a week or so before and do a few days of decent climbs at the start of the week. It really does help.chaletverney wrote:A hilly training camp mid season (May/June)... e.g. Murcia / Sierra Nevada way is a good idea with excellent weather normallyLe Commentateur wrote:What I notice is the large number of people who do the major events like the Marmotte or the Étape as their first experience of these monster climbs. It's like someone deciding to try mountaineering and heading off to tackle Everest or the Eiger.
It's still early summer, there's plenty of time before the autumn to fit in a week or a long weekend and tour about on the bike sampling some 10, 15 or 20 km ascents in the Alps or Pyrenees before the onset of autmn and winter training.
I agree with all of these suggestions. Training camps also exist in Majorca and Italy, and there are lots of testing but not so difficult mountain cyclosportives on the Continent which one could enter as practice for the Marmotte, and not just in France but also in Switzerland and Austria.sherer wrote:of course it doesn't have to be the Alps. I'm thinking of trying to fit in a weekend at Le Grand Ballon instead as it isn't as far.
By the time I entered the Marmotte, I’d been to the French Alps with my bike 3 times, so knew the Glandon and Galibier, as well as other passes, and I’d also taken part in two 3400 m climbing Alpine cyclosportives in Austria, and one in the Vosges, so I knew how they’re organised and what to expect on the route and road.0 -
i'm interested in getting some training done in the Vosges nest year. Is that the closest mountain range to Southern UK ?
If you know of any sportives in the region would love some details0 -
It depends on what you mean with mountain range, but it’s probably the first area heading south with climbs getting on to be as long as you find in the Alps. Some similar climbs in the Black Forest too
To my knowledge, the only cyclosportive in the Vosges regularly taking place before the Marmotte (so suitably-timed preparation) is the Trois Ballons, this year on 13 June and like the Marmotte, organised by Sport Communication. Occasionally there is another cyclosportive or two in the Vosges about May, but they seem to come and go. The other 2-3 regular and long-standing cyclosportives in the Vosges are in September, so more to round off the season than prepare you for the Marmotte.
There are a few cyclosportives in May/June on the periphery of the Vosges (like one from Vittel to the west and 2-3 to the SW from near Besancon), but these don’t get really into the Vosges.
What’s also worth considering are the FFCT randonnees and brevets. These are effectively the same as UK sportives, except no times are taken. In Alsace, there are about 25 such events between mid-March and end-May and almost another 20 events in June alone. So irrespective of where you are in Alsace, there will usually be several within striking distance, and you might even be able to find a couple nearby each other on consecutive days (one for Sat, one for Sun). You register when turning up at the start.
As they are aiming at wide appeal, many only offer max. 120 km/2400 m climbing over smaller cols (for 5 euro), but a few do include some of the longer cols, e.g. there was a 200 km/3730 m randonnee from Mulhouse on both 20 and 21 June (for 14 euro).
You could have gone to the Trois Ballons at the beginning of the week and then done this ride from Mulhouse at the end of the week. Alternatively, if you’d have preferred to finish the week with the Trois Ballons, the weekend before (7-8 June) there was a 105 km randonnee going out from Mulhouse (for 5 euros).
I'm not trying to push Mulhouse! I prefer Colmar of the moderately-sized towns there. But Mulhouse is closer the start of the Trois Ballons and where you could fly into.0 -
am considering doing the Trois Ballan. It was Le Grand Ballan I was thinking of as the closest mountain to Southern England that is 20k long.
Forgot about the Alsace region that also has a few climbs.
Was not sure if the region was close enough to leave England on Friday and then get there to do a ride Sat and then head hope. Somewhere testing that you could do in a weekend for training0 -
The Grand Ballon climb in the ‘Trois Ballons’ is really the Col de Bramont, followed by the simple Col de Herrenberg then the short if steep climb from Le Markstein to the Grand Ballon. This makes it over 35 km long, including level or slight downhill stretches. In steepness, the other two ballons in the ‘Trois Ballons’ are harder, each about 14 km long, and the final Planche des Belles Filles the hardest of all (about 8 km).
The Grand Ballon climb is steeper and shorter when from the South, about 14 km long, but an ascent from this side isn’t the ‘Trois Ballons’ route.
I’ve done what you propose – drive to an event one day, take part the next, drive back the following day – but I wouldn’t really advise it, even with a co-driver. It’s about 450 miles to the start from Calais. My distances were less than that, on average 75%, but you’ve also to first get to Dover and then get a ferry before even reaching Calais. And the start next morning is pretty early (7 am?).
Why not make a trip of it and stay longer, exploring and trying some other routes and cols on the extra days either side of the event?0 -
Use the Dragon but your aim should be to complete the course confidently and quickly. If you struggle on a circuit like this, you risk being destroyed by the Galibier.
I'd agree on the above. It's an excellent sportive tho, but the climbs aren't as steep or long as the Marmotte.
The Marmotte will expose any kind of physical frailites you have. It's a brutal ride esp the ascent of the Galib and more so if it's hot (like this year). A well as the 4 mtns there's the heat to consider - which like the climbs isn't really replicated in our summer.
I don't want to be a doom and gloom merchant, but if you've never ridden in the Alps before its worth gettiing over there for a few days just to get an idea of whats involved. You may want to re-assess your goals aftewards. And remember climbing the Alpe with fresh legs at 9am in the morning certainly aint the same after 3 mountains and a hundred miles in your legs at 3pm in the afternoon in 38 deg heat(as per this year). Loads of people packed at the bottom of the Alpe this year.
As well as the climbs, there's also the descents of the Glandon and Galib to contend with - and hec I've gone down the Glandon maybe a dozen times in the last 15 years and still maganed to crash this year !
Richard Allens 2009 account (http://www.marmotte2009.blogspot.com/) is well worth a read to understand whats involved (also read his 2008 account !).
Excellent vid of this years event here http://www.vimeo.com/5464145.
You just can see my bloodied arm and torn shorts(!) 8m 25secs into the vid at the base of ther Alpe.
This years event was limited to 7,000 riders - the first time they've had a rider limit on it I believe, so best to enter early when the website starts taking entries(eraly Jan ?).
Also you'll neeed a signed medical certificate - will your doctor be perpared to sign one if you have joint problems ?
There's also the little problem of training - I amassed about 5,000 miles between Jan > end June this year in preparation. I probably could have done it on less, but I need long miles to get me fit (and get the weight off). There's no substitute for me - but you may be different. You'll certainly need quite a few 100+ hilly rides under your belt.
Happy Marmotting - I hope I haven't put you off. It's a great event/challenge.
After my gold medal this year (but failing to break 9 hours) I may be back for one last stab in 2010 (misses permitting !)0 -
I only did 2,100m between Jan & Marmotte but managed it in 8hrs 47m. I did however do 35 turbo sessions which were crucial as that's where I worked on sustainable power. Weight loss was also a major factor as I shed 6kgs. Whenever I have been out on the road I've focused on getting to climbing areas or doing sustained below threshold cycling to simulate the long efforts needed on the climbs. Ideally I would like to have done much more but two young children meant I had to be selective. It does demonstrate that you don't need to do the huge mileage that Brits seem obsessed with. It probably makes a difference that I've now done 2 Etapes & 3 Marmottes so have a good base to build on each year and my muscles have adapted to these kind of rides.
I agree the Dragon is the closest sportif to the Alpine climbs & I really enjoyed it. Other Sportifs I did like the Cotswolds & Chilterns had similar total accumulated climb but lots of short sharp hills which isn't great practise for the sustained climbing you have to do.
I've had a 5-day training trip to the Alps each year a couple of months before in which we get in some great long climbing practise. Whole-heartedly recommend staying with www.kingofthemountains.co.uk
Galibier is long, long, long and where all that training is really tested.
It's a great event and I'm definitely going back next year to try and crack 8:30 or lower.0 -
Sounds like me! But I did even less miles than that - about 1700km I think. I agree that lots of people seem obsessed with "getting the miles in" without thinking about the quality of those miles. I managed a gold fairly comfortably and the Marmotte was my 4th or 5th ride over 100km this year... :?I only did 2,100m between Jan & Marmotte but managed it in 8hrs 47m. ... Ideally I would like to have done much more but two young children meant I had to be selective. It does demonstrate that you don't need to do the huge mileage that Brits seem obsessed with.
Same here - if you can't get the miles in then you need to put the effort in!Whenever I have been out on the road I've focused on getting to climbing areas or doing sustained below threshold cycling to simulate the long efforts needed on the climbs.
I think the point of all this is that if you are prepared to work hard then it's a manageable goal, but that if you don't want to suffer for hours on end (there were still LOTS of people grinding up the Alpe d'Huez as I went down after finishing/eating/drinking/phoning people :shock: ) then it is worth getting a training plan in place and trying to keep to it. But don't be scared off either - you don't have to devote your entire life to bikes to do this (altho' other members of my family may disagree...)0 -
I think its worth saying that probably only a certain type of post-er is posting on a thread like this. Perhaps another type of person views but doesn't post.
By which I mean that lots of people have said how much training they have done, and then gone on to quote a time that is gold standard. I figure this puts them in a minority of people who complete the Marmotte. While this means that they are likely to have been highly successful in their training, it also means that they may not be entirely representative of the majority of Marmotters.
Speaking personally, I reckon I did a lot of riding in the run up to the Marmotte, about 2,500 miles. I wasn’t particularly rigorous in following a training plan. I was also injured earlier in the year, which meant that for many weeks I wasn’t even sure if I would make the start, let alone the finish line. Hardly a perfect training regime
I still found the race do-able and highly enjoyable, and I was pleasantly surprised with not feeling like death on the second half. I was fortunate enough to spend a week in the Alps immediately beforehand, which was immensely helpful both in terms of building my confidence and my ability to ride for long periods up hills. I had ridden the Telegraphe, Galibier and the Alpe the week before; when I got to the bottom of the Telegraphe, I was able to say to myself, “Right, I did this next bit in a single day, so its not that bad.”
My best advice has three main sections:
1. do whatever training you can
2. if you possibly can, spend some time on the route or similar hills beforehand
3. and then go out and enjoy it.0 -
thanks for the info on the Trois Ballons. Was hoping it was close enough to get to on a weekend and do some training. It's expensive going up and down mountains all the time !
Really want to do this next year as i did another one the week before, but after failing that one I really need to improve more before thinking about the Alps again0 -
do whatever training you can
Whilst most people will only be able to allot 'X' amout of time to training, with the Marmotte and similar european sporives there's no substitute for experience of the climbs to understand what level of fitness is reqd.
Doing 'whatever training you can' may be way offthe mark for some people, who , through lack of experience of the standard of fitness will simply have a tortuos day in the saddle. Brits have got a somewhat bad name in the Etape forthis in recent years with a high percentage of riders ending up in the broom wagon.0 -
itisaboutthebike wrote:do whatever training you can
Whilst most people will only be able to allot 'X' amout of time to training, with the Marmotte and similar european sporives there's no substitute for experience of the climbs to understand what level of fitness is reqd.
Doing 'whatever training you can' may be way offthe mark for some people, who , through lack of experience of the standard of fitness will simply have a tortuos day in the saddle. Brits have got a somewhat bad name in the Etape forthis in recent years with a high percentage of riders ending up in the broom wagon.
I do agree with you, but of course its not really possible to do more training than you can. Clearly the Marmotte is known as one of, if not the, toughest European sportives, so anyone taking it on must be prepared to train properly; as a British rider, I was conscious that us Brits are reported to have a bad name in Etapes (but interestingly I checked this out with a France based Anglophone rider and he hadn't heard this). But the point I was trying to make is that the Marmotte is indeed accessible to ordinary riders like me, who train as best as they can within the limited knowledge that they have, without worrying about things like 20 minute intervals at pre-lactate threshold.0 -
But the point I was trying to make is that the Marmotte is indeed accessible to ordinary riders like me, who train as best as they can within the limited knowledge that they have, without worrying about things like 20 minute intervals at pre-lactate threshold.
Agree. Even when i was racing I didnt worry about lactate threshold ! (mind you that was 20 years ago before lactate threshold was invented !).0 -
Point 3 is the best advice on this thread.topcattim wrote:1. do whatever training you can
2. if you possibly can, spend some time on the route or similar hills beforehand
3. and then go out and enjoy it.
You calling us show-offs?topcattim wrote:I think its worth saying that probably only a certain type of post-er is posting on a thread like this.
I don't mind - I probably am showing off a bit - I was very pleased to get round in the time I did. But that wasn't what I meant to say above - it was basically the same as you - don't be scared off by all the "you must ride 10,000km and climb 39 cols in the Alps before you will be ready to attempt the Marmotte, young Skywalker..." posts on all these pages. It is do-able by your average punter (that includes me). I too would say my training wasn't perfect (interrupted by life/work/illness) and up until half-way up the Glandon I didn't know if it was going to be OK or not. But (back to the point 3 above) I did do it and I did enjoy it! 0 -
ded wrote:
Point 3 is the best advice on this thread.topcattim wrote:1. do whatever training you can
2. if you possibly can, spend some time on the route or similar hills beforehand
3. and then go out and enjoy it.
You calling us show-offs?topcattim wrote:I think its worth saying that probably only a certain type of post-er is posting on a thread like this. I don't mind - I probably am showing off a bit - I was very pleased to get round in the time I did. But that wasn't what I meant to say above - it was basically the same as you - don't be scared off by all the "you must ride 10,000km and climb 39 cols in the Alps before you will be ready to attempt the Marmotte, young Skywalker..." posts on all these pages. It is do-able by your average punter (that includes me). I too would say my training wasn't perfect (interrupted by life/work/illness) and up until half-way up the Glandon I didn't know if it was going to be OK or not. But (back to the point 3 above) I did do it and I did enjoy it!
Lots of good and varied advice, thanks all for responses to my OP-turned into a fair old thread .
I also noted there were a lot of posts from people who were doing gold times, but also as well from people in the 11hr range so a spread. Its interesting to hear from people with different objectives, lets face it even if I am only looking to do a 'bit better than pure survival', then if I do apply some of the training advice from people at the faster end, its only going to help!
Anyway i have some good ideas from all this so ta very much0 -
I stayed at www.whiteroomchalet.com which isn't far (one valley) from the Marmotte route. The chalet is on the iseran road and there are numerous TdF climbs in that area so you could have a week practising exactly the sort of climbs you are going to be facingM.Rushton0
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A vote from me for the Hotel L 'Ancolie (sp?) on L Alpe d'Huez itself, 3 or 4 k from the top. Fantastic place to stay, good value, good food, good atmosphere.0
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Just to add some further advice
I've ridden the Marmotte 6 times, should have been 7 but left things too late and the event sold out. Reckon its going to be even more popular in 2010 so the best advice is to book as early as possible. I was absolutely gutted this year as it is the most amazing event, so much better (and harder) than the Etape.
I've tried all sorts of travel options but would recommend using a tour company as organising and driving yourself is pretty stressful and always ends up costing loads more than it should. I ended up with a £200 speeding ticket one year and I'm a pretty careful driver, another time when I flew the baggage handlers decided to wreck my bike even though it was in a box. I'v never taken the train but a friend of mine was refused carrige of his bike on the french train.
My recommendations would be :
King of the Mountains (www.kingofthemountains.co.uk)
Marmotte Cycle (www.marmottecycle.co.uk)
Chalet ribot (Chaleribot.com)
Finally I think it is best just travelling and riding the event over a short period. If you arrive too early you don't really put your heart into the rides as the Marmote is looming. However you do need at least 1 training ride. The best way is to arrive Wed/Thurs so you can do a ride on thursday of 3-4hours (maybe 2 cols) use friday as a rest day then ride the event on Saturday Travelling back on Sunday is no problem as you won't want to ride your bike.
Hope this helps0 -
Well I have just been to B d'O for a week to have a look and it's a pretty challenging route.
I'm new to cycling and most of my riding is geared to training for 25 mile TTs which I have started this year.
I had only ever once ridden over 60 miles before this trip.
So ... I decided to ride the Marmotte route solo (minus the Alp D'Huez at the end) to get a feel for the level of challenge.
It took me 9:30, including stopping for food & rests, to get round to the bottom of the Alp and I was in resonable condition and figured I could have climbed it in about 1:30 with a couple of rests ...
The Galibier was very challenging. Reading about people doing 8 hour times seems incrieible, I guess you must climb pretty quickly ...
I think I'll give it a go next year if I can talk some friends into it....0 -
musto_skiff, I'm sure you'll do a better time when there are many others on the ride with you, even if you are in a TT mindset on the Marmotte rather than riding with a particular group.0
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Go for it! It's great!musto_skiff wrote:I think I'll give it a go next year if I can talk some friends into it....
I actually think 25m TTs are great training for the Marmotte. I know you need to be able to climb and to keep riding for a long time but basically to do a good time in the Marmotte you need to be able to ride at your threshold for an hour or more - just like a 25m TT. You are just going a lot slower! And you need to be able to rest and recover in between as well. But how many hills are there in the UK that take an hour+ to climb? None. So the effort involved in a 25m TT is a good proxy for riding uphill for that long.musto_skiff wrote:I'm new to cycling and most of my riding is geared to training for 25 mile TTs which I have started this year.
Telegraphe took my an hour bottom-top, Valloire to Galibier 80min or so, Alpe d'Huez 80 min or so. 3 25/30 mile TTs with a rest in between! :? Glandon is the wild-card, but it isn't such a constant climb - you can rest on the way up (a bit)...0 -
I did figure riding in a group would help as there was a resonable slog along the road that went parallel with the motorway and doing that sat in a group would have been easier.
Plus I decided to carry all my own food, did it on 6 gets & 2 bars.
What surprised me was that I did all the hills in bottom gear (33 x 28 ) if I ride a TT my ave. cadance is nearly always 97, grinding up those hills I was often doing 60 -70 ... not really that comfortable and I assume taking more out of me than if I had had a triple ...0 -
Just a reminder, if planning to do the Marmotte 2010 its best to register sooner rather than later, since this will get you start number in first pen, which makes day a lot easier. (I registered Jan for this years event)
Done via link below
[url][/url]http://www.sportcommunication.info/GT/index.php?langue=1[url][/url]Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
bahzob wrote:Just a reminder, if planning to do the Marmotte 2010 its best to register sooner rather than later, since this will get you start number in first pen, which makes day a lot easier. (I registered Jan for this years event)
Done via link below
[url][/url]http://www.sportcommunication.info/GT/index.php?langue=1[url][/url]
Do you have to pay at this point our just register your interest?
Seems you can only register for the LA RONDE PICARDE not the Marmotte?0
