Dekker positive

GroupOfOne MkII

afx237vi wrote:

Do you reckon he got the stuff in McDonalds?

I've heard he particularly liked the Vienna branch.

blazing_saddles

Why are we all digging up the old news from 2007, again?
Just sweep it under the carpet and move on.......

Possibly the sport's worst kept secret.

The most definite proof yet, that the Tour is almost upon us.
Ah, those sleepness nights.

dave_1

afx237vi wrote:

The UCI statement says it was Dynepo. That's kinda let the cat out of the bag...

Is it possible to get the traces of the stuff out their system so close to the TDF? Maybe a few will fall ill in the next week to avoid the TDF?

dave_1

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Why are we all digging up the old news from 2007, again?
Just sweep it under the carpet and move on.......

Possibly the sport's worst kept secret.

The most definite proof yet, that the Tour is almost upon us.
Ah, those sleepness nights.

The Decker story is totally new and should be top thread.

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Why are we all digging up the old news from 2007, again?
Just sweep it under the carpet and move on.......

.

He was announced as positive in 2007 back in 2007 ????..........jeez must have missed that one got a link for that story ?

crown_jewel

Silence Lotto are pointing out that the sample is from Dekker's Rabobank days. They forget to mention that the old sample was tested now only because of his suspicious passport values for 08 and 09. They are not blameless here.

And I also support lifetime bans for the first offense. Two years off clearly is not a deterrent.

moray_gub

Crown Jewel wrote:

Silence Lotto are pointing out that the sample is from Dekker's Rabobank days. They forget to mention that the old sample was tested now only because of his suspicious passport values for 08 and 09. They are not blameless here.

And I also support lifetime bans for the first offense. Two years off clearly is not a deterrent.

Lifetime bans after a first offence are clearly a restiction on trade, any decent lawyer would drive a horse and cart through it, so i dont think that will ever be the case.

Kléber

It would only be applicable in a code where the rider agrees to a ban.

But there is another way, where teams realise that signing a suspicious rider is the wrong move, we're not talking about rumour, but blood values by the way. Dekker was touting his services to several teams but they said no, there was not even a contract with a paltry salary. Lotto didn't seem to have the same worries.

But that move is miles off, we've had more allegations this week of teams running organised training programmes, it seems the point is not to be clean, just keep up the pretences of being clean.

blazing_saddles

So, if Dekker gave a positive sample for DynEPO, back in 2007, it shows that, once again, most cheats were way ahead of the game, when in the 2008 Tour, the CERA samples came back.
Further proof, if any was needed, that implimenting retrotests on a much wider scale, is the way to go.

We may have assumed that the Italian police snatched the 2008 Giro samples to test for CERA, but, is it fair to think that, in this case, we too may be behind the game?

mididoctors

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Further proof, if any was needed, that implimenting retrotests on a much wider scale, is the way to go.

+1

its so self evident I find unfathomable why people argue against it.

thebongolian

Moray Gub wrote:

Crown Jewel wrote:

Silence Lotto are pointing out that the sample is from Dekker's Rabobank days. They forget to mention that the old sample was tested now only because of his suspicious passport values for 08 and 09. They are not blameless here.

And I also support lifetime bans for the first offense. Two years off clearly is not a deterrent.

Lifetime bans after a first offence are clearly a restiction on trade, any decent lawyer would drive a horse and cart through it, so i dont think that will ever be the case.

The penalty is meaningless if the dopers don't think they'll get caught - up to now I suspect the balance of risk for many cyclists has pointed to chancing it as the system hasn't been up to catching them.

I hope that's changing. And retrospective testing has to be part of it.

Cumulonimbus

Crown Jewel wrote:

Silence Lotto are pointing out that the sample is from Dekker's Rabobank days. They forget to mention that the old sample was tested now only because of his suspicious passport values for 08 and 09. They are not blameless here.

With this in mind, could AFLD throw the whole team out of the tour???

teagar

Cumulonimbus wrote:

Crown Jewel wrote:

Silence Lotto are pointing out that the sample is from Dekker's Rabobank days. They forget to mention that the old sample was tested now only because of his suspicious passport values for 08 and 09. They are not blameless here.

With this in mind, could AFLD throw the whole team out of the tour???

I think the ASO would be reluctant.

They have Evans after all.

Gilbert's hardly the dirtiest rider is he?

Cumulonimbus

Yeah true, but if there is the suggestion that Silence were happy to take on 'dirty' riders then that wouldnt stand them in good stead. Of course, we dont know exactly what went on, when the dodgy results were etc. Maybe he'd told them he'd cleaned up his act. The dodgy result(s) from this year could have been only one, maybe a point came where he thought he was in the clear....

RichN95.

Crown Jewel wrote:

Silence Lotto are pointing out that the sample is from Dekker's Rabobank days. They forget to mention that the old sample was tested now only because of his suspicious passport values for 08 and 09. They are not blameless here..

But we don't know in what way they were suspicious. For a simple example: Say TD's haematocrit is consistently around 48% in his Rabobank days and then never tops 43% at Silence - then that's suspicious, and certainly not Silence's fault.

skavanagh.bikeradar

He had a stomach problem last weekend. We should've seen this coming. Deary, me. Good for Charlie though, hope he's clean.

Cumulonimbus

RichN95 wrote:

Crown Jewel wrote:

Silence Lotto are pointing out that the sample is from Dekker's Rabobank days. They forget to mention that the old sample was tested now only because of his suspicious passport values for 08 and 09. They are not blameless here..

But we don't know in what way they were suspicious. For a simple example: Say TD's haematocrit is consistently around 48% in his Rabobank days and then never tops 43% at Silence - then that's suspicious, and certainly not Silence's fault.

True

1960ride

Very interesting.

Why only give riders a lifetime ban? Lets name and shame their system in front of millions.

New rules
1. Each team will have samples taken before being certified to ride the tour.
2. If a rider drops out of the start list prior to the tour for sickness he will recieve an automatic test, along with any proposed replacement rider to ensure they are not contagious.
3. All certified riders will be allowed to complete the tour.
4. The uci will have all results of A Samples prior to completion of the tour but hold announcements until after the last day of the tour at the awards presentation.
5. If for some reason a rider drops out for a reason rather than a crash they will recieve an automatic test.
6. Have 1,2,3 finishers sprinter, climber under 25 etc on the podium by time/points criteria.
7. Have UCI announce the results of A samples.
8. Have a podium of shame. The awards will be most doped team, most doped sponsor, biggest cheater, best liar.
9. Rearange podium positions according to tests.
10. Have police standing by to escort winners and losers.
11. Winners get just reward.
12. Loosers get to serve jail time until B samples are verified then a 3 year ban. It could be a long stay in jail since it takes the UCI a year or two to compile results then a 3 year ban that would possible end the chance of any rider comming back.

iainf72

I did enjoy Robbie Hunter's comment

http://twitter.com/RobbieHunter/status/2421578914

pb21

How many names could this testing bring up?

Could this go nuclear, or is it just a one off, and if so why?

iainf72

I wonder if it's related to Kohl and what he's said.

Kohl and Dekker both used the same clinic in Austria. He may have provided some information which was useful in targetting.

Many mumblings that there are bigger names to come out from the passport and Dekker is quite a big one. So it depends but I expect we'll see some older test results emerging. All adding to the FUD.

Birillo

New rules
1. Each team will have samples taken before being certified to ride the tour.
2. If a rider drops out of the start list prior to the tour for sickness he will recieve an automatic test, along with any proposed replacement rider to ensure they are not contagious.
3. All certified riders will be allowed to complete the tour.
4. The uci will have all results of A Samples prior to completion of the tour but hold announcements until after the last day of the tour at the awards presentation.
5. If for some reason a rider drops out for a reason rather than a crash they will recieve an automatic test.
6. Have 1,2,3 finishers sprinter, climber under 25 etc on the podium by time/points criteria.
7. Have UCI announce the results of A samples.
8. Have a podium of shame. The awards will be most doped team, most doped sponsor, biggest cheater, best liar.
9. Rearange podium positions according to tests.
10. Have police standing by to escort winners and losers.
11. Winners get just reward.
12. Loosers get to serve jail time until B samples are verified then a 3 year ban. It could be a long stay in jail since it takes the UCI a year or two to compile results then a 3 year ban that would possible end the chance of any rider comming back.

Great idea with an obvious flaw. If you were a sponsor, would you back this scheme if there was a chance (however small, and for reasons outside your direct control) that your company might be on the "podium of shame" and win the "most doped sponsor" award?

Thought not.

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

I wonder if it's related to Kohl and what he's said.

Kohl and Dekker both used the same clinic in Austria. He may have provided some information which was useful in targetting.

Nah.....old news....old doper/cheater, no credibility, move on..... :P

Joking aside. Tis possible, if only at this stage, speculative.
Would we ever get to find out, though?

blazing_saddles

New in from Holland:-
Dutch newspaper telegraaf suggests there will be another positive case announced tomorrow.
the normally well-informed mart smeets kind of suggested the same thing on tv just now. the way he said it suggests a rabo rider....

GroupOfOne MkII

Hmm if it was another Rabo rider it'd smack very much of what Iain suggested, that Kohl has provided some information, either voluntarily or just through what he's said. Otherwise bit suspicious that it's suddenly all riders linked to the Austrian clinic getting caught out.

They'll be a few people in a Viennesse whirl tonight

afx237vi

My guess is a guy with really big, really white gnashers. He and Dekker were both complaining about being tested together on Xmas Eve 2007.

GroupOfOne MkII

Oh yes, just seen the story on CN from Jan 10 2008 where it says he was visited on Christmas Eve, despite having retired.

micron

Kohl made it pretty clear that Silence Lotto were happy to sign him precisely because he was good at keeping his values in check for the passport - which seemed to imply that they didn't give a sh*t how he achieved that or what he might be doing so long as the passport values stayed 'clean'.

takethehighroad

Kohl? Vienna? Dekker? What name does that conjure up? Oh only the incumbent of the maglia rosa....

victorponf

why now?

Because UCI lost Protour´s battle with ASO and now it´s wanting revenge, just f--k the Tour organizer.