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Cliquey clubs, a sad story of mass sulking.

Jezmo - bannedJezmo - banned Posts: 19
edited May 2010 in The bottom bracket
Hi

Just wondering if other people have has similar experiances and why they happen.

I joined a cycle club about a year ago in the south which was supposed to be an alround club and it was OK for a bit but it quickly became apparent that it was a club obsesed with timetrials and Sundays runs and if you wanted to do any racing you were on your own basically.
So me and a group of guys tried to set up a little racing team and support each other do training together and help each other out in races, and it all went a bit tits up from there really, nobody wanted to train together, it was all pretty random as to wether races turned out or people turned up to the races even.It was crazy people sulked if you suggested that it might be better if we did race traing together, they sulked if you suggested that riding 80 miles round Hampshire wasn't race training.
In the end I couldn't deal with it and went and joined the local racing team where they train together an have a team ethos and there is no bullshit.

I suppose the moral of the story is that there are some clubs with strange hidden agenda and some people have some very strange ideas about what constitutes any sort of commitment I suppose.I have to say 90% of the people in the club where there just to enjoy the riding on Sundays and do the occational time trial maybe that that was about it but that was fine thats what they wanted to do, but why you get huge outbreaks of sulking if you try to do something different is a bit of a mystery.
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  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    some clubs are racing clubs, some are TT clubs, some are just social. You only have to look on the start sheets for a few local races to see which clubs take their road racing seriously enough......

    You can't expect a club to get excited about a discipline which most of the members aren't interested in...
  • nolfnolf Posts: 2,016
    If you think thats a lack of commitment try doing that with a university!

    Instead of tryin to change the club, I just look for individuals to use as training partners. You can try to organise your own racing team, but seperate it from the reluctant club so as to attract more people, and you can make it clear that you want to take it seriously!

    Good luck with your new racing team!

    BTW how hard is it join a racing team? Did you just ask or did you need a certain performance?
    "I hold it true, what'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost;
    Than never to have loved at all."

    Alfred Tennyson
  • The biggest local team in our area all train on their own, and go to lengths to chase each other down in road races. Very strange.
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • BeaconRuthBeaconRuth Posts: 2,086
    jezmo wrote:
    ...... it was a club obsesed with timetrials and Sundays runs and if you wanted to do any racing you were on your own basically.
    [aside]Wierd perception that doing a time trial doesn't constitute doing a race.[/aside]

    Back on topic - sometimes it takes an awful lot of tact and sensitivity to arrive in a club as a complete newcomer and introduce changes, start up new things etc. Presumeably established members in a club like it the way it is.

    Ruth
  • Try before you buy - I did and I'm very happy with the club I joined. I did a Sunmday run with each - one was slooow, one was for men with beards, one (shop ride) was for all the gear etc types, one had really horrid kit colours (sorry). One was for urban yuppies/not so yuppies with the same needs and attitude as me.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    BeaconRuth wrote:
    [aside]Wierd perception that doing a time trial doesn't constitute doing a race.[/aside]

    Does competing individually against an inanimate timepiece really constitute 'racing'...?? ;)
  • BeaconRuthBeaconRuth Posts: 2,086
    softlad wrote:
    BeaconRuth wrote:
    [aside]Wierd perception that doing a time trial doesn't constitute doing a race.[/aside]

    Does competing individually against an inanimate timepiece really constitute 'racing'...?? ;)
    Yawn...........

    Ruth
  • Sirius631Sirius631 Posts: 1,015
    softlad wrote:
    BeaconRuth wrote:
    [aside]Wierd perception that doing a time trial doesn't constitute doing a race.[/aside]

    Does competing individually against an inanimate timepiece really constitute 'racing'...?? ;)

    Does sitting in the pack, wheel sucking until the sprint comes, constitute 'racing'?

    I must admit, our club is generally a time trial club, although there are a few guys who major in road races. I mix both RR and TT and have found that doing my bit at the front and chasing down breaks in road races helps with developing power and speed for time trials. This suits me better than going out for specific interval sessions on my own. Think of a time trial as being practice for lone breakaways, and it is easy to see that each disciplin complements the other.
    To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    Sirius631 wrote:
    Think of a time trial as being practice for lone breakaways, and it is easy to see that each disciplin complements the other.

    Of course time trialling is beneficial to racing - and vice versa. I wouldn't dream of arguing otherwise...

    I was just having a dig about whether it consitutes a 'race' in itself, that's all. I was only joking, but I think Ruth got the hump......
    Sirius631 wrote:
    Does sitting in the pack, wheel sucking until the sprint comes, constitute 'racing'?

    in a word - yes. I would define a race as any mass start event where the winner is the first to cross the finish line. What happens tactically between the start and the finish is incidental...
  • BeaconRuthBeaconRuth Posts: 2,086
    softlad wrote:
    I was just having a dig about whether it consitutes a 'race' in itself, that's all. I was only joking, but I think Ruth got the hump......
    Didn't get the hump, just couldn't be bothered to think of a witty enough retort. I can see there are tons of limitations with time trials but they are very certainly 'races'. The first dictionary definition I've just looked up says "Race - a contest of speed." There ain't much to a TT but it's definitely a contest of speed. I'll take a dictionary definition over yours if you don't mind. :wink:

    Ruth
  • As a member of the cycling CLUB I feel the need to defend the club and the people these comments are aimed at. This guy, Jezmo, has just been banned from the cycling club for constant abuse and victimisation of several members, including an 18 year old who has ridden well and gained a second cat licence in only his second season. Not something you would expect from a 40 something year old man who apparently has a wife of only a few months and a baby due in the next week or so.

    The club never sold itself as a race team or anything like that. It is a social club who meet on a Sunday and also hold Time Trials throughout the year. Several of the members enjoy racing and sometimes head to races together, although this is a small minority of the club who do this. At the start of the year the race "team" said it would be good if they could go to races together, and try and help each other out, that is all. The race "team" would try and ride together when they could, although as you all know this can be difficult due to life commitments.

    As for Jezmo's comment about people turning up to races, I believe that he was the one who constantly said he was going to do a race, yet would come up with an excuse as to why he couldnt get there, such as his "wife" took the car to visit her mum, at 5am, on a Sunday morning, and all this started after he raced at a Surrey League event early in the year, and got lapped, although he would not admit this even once the results showed he was at +1 Lap. He also raced at Thruxton and caused a crash on the first lap. I cannot remember him attending another race, although you may wish to correct me on this.

    I also do not understand where this sulking comment comes from. As stated, the club in question are a Club, not a team. A large part of the club is the social side, which for most is the Sunday Club Ride. Like most Clubs, there are several different groups, and most of the people who enjoy racing ride in the faster group. Jezmo used to complain that these rides should be more social, and not so hard. He used to slate the faster group, yet this was the only time most members of the "race team" could get out together. Jezmo was dropped on many different occasions when riding with the faster group. Later on he decided that fast club rides should be used as training, and tried to backtrack, contradicting himself yet again.

    As for him joining the local racing team, I find that rather hard to believe. Although, according to Jezmo, he is going to work in the USA for 4 months soon, strange with a baby allegedly due next week, and just married?

    The guy has lost the plot. Everybody in the club was kind and took him under their wing in order to offer him help and support, to be repaid by this. Eventually it got too much, the constant comments about how he was riding with ex tour riders and how it was so much better riding by yourself than with the club, were the final straw, and he was banned. He is obviously a very bitter man with a chip on his shoulder.

    What you fail to understand Jezmo, is that you joined a CLUB, not a race team, and if you cause half as much aggro with the serious Team you have apparently joined, you won't last long there.
  • Owned!
  • Stewie GriffinStewie Griffin Posts: 4,374
    Owned!

    pwned :wink:
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    I know which side of this particular discussion I believe.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • [

    What you fail to understand Jezmo, is that you joined a CLUB, not a race team, and if you cause half as much aggro with the serious Team you have apparently joined, you won't last long there.[/quote]

    No i don't think so you see talking to the other club it seems that they are quite happy to have me on board doing some races as they are particularly busy doing regular races at the moment so I am looking forward to doing those and working with the team member who are commited to doing some traing as a team and so on.

    Ive been talking to them today and it seems they offer exactly what I want.
    It was just a teeny tiny bit frustrating trying to get people who said said they wanted to get involved out doing some training together suddenly not being interested, we do one coached sessions and nobody is prepared to put those into practice and you simply feel you are wasting your time.

    As far as anyone being insulted I find it very insulting if people have problems with what I wanted to do in stead of offering an alternative they don't talk. I don't think ive been in a situation where people refuse to talk since I was about 5.

    It will be interesting to see who does better me in a team where people talk to you if they have a problem or your 'team' who ride in silence when there is a problem.I know where I am going to be happier.

    As far as Mr 18 is concerned I was simpl expressing the same doubts that other have but once again thats down to talking to people which.
  • Instead of posting heart rate data which was of no use to anyone whatsoever on the forum thingy, after races it might have been better to actualy say things like 'I think you are being ambitious asking people to go traning, we would rather do something like a long easy ride' but sadly that never happend so you know communication is where its at.
  • As it is I am hoping to start racing with the new club next week and I shall see you at the races, I'll be the one talking to people.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    jezmo wrote:
    As it is I am hoping to start racing with the new club next week and I shall see you at the races, I'll be the one talking to people.

    fck me, Jezmo - you don't half go on.....
  • JLM74JLM74 Posts: 108
    popcorn.gif
  • Someone asked how I joined the race team I simply went to the owner/manager and said to him that I was fed up with dealling with people who refused to communicate, I knew his team worked well together and I wondered if he wanted someone who was willing to do some work and get some results.I told him I had family commitments so i couldn't do every race but he said he would be glad to have me on board.
    He is a no nonesence kind of guy so if i can contribute something to the team as well as wipe the smile off the faces of one or two people then thats got to be a good thing.
    You should ask me how commited I am to making a certain persons heart monitor explode in the races.
  • LittleB0bLittleB0b Posts: 416
    Discretion = the better part of valor.
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Are we sure this isn't a wind up? This Jezmo guy sounds like a right knob
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  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,158
    can anyone else feel the sexual tension between the 2 protagonists?
  • Chip \'oylerChip \'oyler Posts: 2,349
    I think it's the same guy - he's doing a 'Gollum'.
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  • AirwaveAirwave Posts: 483
    They had the messiah amongst them&they let him leave-fools!!
  • HonestAlHonestAl Posts: 406
    ... sits patiently wondering what will come next... :roll:
    "The only absolute statement is that everything is relative" - anon
  • nolfnolf Posts: 2,016
    I've got the pizza, popcorn, and e-mail bulletins set up and waiting.

    Let the games begin!
    "I hold it true, what'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost;
    Than never to have loved at all."

    Alfred Tennyson
  • rhextrhext Posts: 1,639
    The key's in the word 'club', I guess. As opposed to 'team'. So a group of people who get together to do stuff which they like. You come in, try to get a sub-group to do something closer to what you enjoy doing, and then slate the whole group because they don't see it your way.

    Sounds like you've done the right thing: walked away and found a different group who like doing similar stuff to you. Not sure why you'd feel the urge to have a go at the other group, though.
  • In order to help your new team, you are going to need to be able to keep up first. Its all well and good moaning about not having a team to help you in races, who do not communicate, but if you do not have the engine to keep up then you are going to struggle. You also need to turn up to the races, and you only did two races from what I understand, so where was the commitment from you? You were the least commited out of everyone, yet you come on here and make out like you are the messiah, you have not even done a sub 30min 10 this year.

    The people who race within the club are only in their first season racing together, what did you expect, Astana? Its a learning curve for all of them which is why the CLUB have organised coaching lessons, to help them all learn.

    I didnt want to get into an internet slagging match, I was happy to let you wallow in your own self pitty, but cant see you moaning about a club knowing that you caused the problems.

    I look forward to reading the club race reports, and seeing how you get on with the new team, I'm sure you will be mentioned. :lol:
  • Le CommentateurLe Commentateur Posts: 4,174
    edited May 2010
    jezmo wrote:
    ......if you wanted to do any racing you were on your own basically.

    That actually sounds like a time trialling view of things. :)
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