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Are FS bike really needed for riding

Mr WuMr Wu Posts: 1,238
edited June 2009 in MTB general
Sorry this is a bit random,

Are Full sussers really needed for hitting trails? Sherwood pines, cannock chase etc?

Im thinking about buying another bike and am swaying towards getting another hard tail, namley the orange crush, I love my evo HT and just wondered whether my moneys better spent getting a full susser as i plan to be going to alot more centers in the near future.

I will have from £1500 - £2000 for a new bike, also thought about getting an ST4

thoughts/ bikes?
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Posts

  • Andy BAndy B Posts: 8,115
    *gets popcorn for the heated debate that is about to start.... HT Vs FS*
    2385861000_d125abe796_m.jpg
  • XxxBFGxxXXxxBFGxxX Posts: 1,355
    hello mate.

    i used to love hard tails till i was up my local trail and my mate was so fast on his norco full suss. so i got my self a susser and boy what fun it is. i seem to be able to puch my self no ends. and also i now leave my mates behind that ride HT's now
  • XxxBFGxxXXxxBFGxxX Posts: 1,355
    Andy_B wrote:
    *gets popcorn for the heated debate that is about to start.... HT Vs FS*


    lmfao


    totaly agree.

    each to there own at the end of the day
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Test some out, see what suits you.

    Some might say a CX bike is all you need for Cannock ;-)
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    edited May 2009
    Please don't let this become a HT vs FS thread, I'm drawn to them like a moth to a flame :lol:

    Do you need one? Never ridden at either of the places you mention but my ht's been around glentress red and black, and innerleithen red, and never missed a beat. I could possibly have enjoyed innerleithen more with a full suss, I was pushing the limits of my own skill and confidence there and some rear bounce would have helped me out I think... But around GT black, I couldn't have been happier on the Soul, it was made for it. (edit- I was in no way pushing the bike's limits in either, but I reckon a full suss would have given me more comfort zone for caddon bank at inners, the drops there were too much for my limited nerve on my bent paperclip)

    But, just because you don't need it doesn't mean you shouldn't get one... Need has nothing to do with it :) See if you can hire or test ride a decent full suss and have a play on it. I have, and stuck with a hardtail, you might find you like it more. (I felt the Zesty I rode at glentress made everything too effortless and ultimately a bit boring)
    Uncompromising extremist
  • toastytoasty Posts: 2,598
    edited May 2009
    I've seen a couple of CX bikes going around Cannock actually :S

    Swings and roundabouts, how do you define need? Do you need anything more than a £100 Halfords special? It'd get around Cannock Chase fine.

    I'm still of the opinion that full sus is a winning idea most of the time, assuming you want to go as fast as possible or as far as possible, even in Cannock Chase. It's odd, people still seem to club "full sus" into 1 tiny niche, I go faster than my friend up hills on his -insert downhill bike here-. Modern, efficient full sus are totally different beasts, the weight penalty is only a couple of pounds at the top end and in exchange you can conserve more energy over a wider array of terrain.
  • Mr WuMr Wu Posts: 1,238
    Andy_B wrote:
    *gets popcorn for the heated debate that is about to start.... HT Vs FS*

    hahah thats exactly what i dont want.

    other option is to sell my evo and get the crush....

    will it be strong enough to take a hammering? I hammer my evo at the mo and love it, just like the travel on the crush
  • Mickey EyeMickey Eye Posts: 590
    I don't know these places you ride but eventually I intend to have both a good HT and a good FS. I don't see either as mutually exclusive.

    Right now my friend who has a good FS (Santacruz Blur XC) is borrowing my Stumpy HT as he managed to lose his rear mech and I've broken my arm. He keeps telling me how much fun it is to ride a good stiff HT, doesn't mean he wants to throw away his Blur (I wish) but only that he wishes he could have both.
  • Mr WuMr Wu Posts: 1,238
    My other option is to get the crush and buy a cheaper full suss.

    say a grand on each?
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Toasty wrote:
    It's odd, people still seem to club "full sus" into 1 tiny niche, I go faster than my friend up hills on his -insert downhill bike here-. Modern, efficient full sus are totally different beasts, the weight penalty is only a couple of pounds at the top end and in exchange you can conserve more energy over a wider array of terrain.

    Yup, this is a good point. Course, the same also goes for HTs, there's a lot of diversity there too- a BFe with a 6 inch fork in probably has less in common with a Giant XTC than it does with an Orange 5, in terms of capability and purpose. OTOH, my mate's Anthem X probably is closer to the XTC than to a 5.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • toastytoasty Posts: 2,598
    edited May 2009
    Mickey Eye wrote:
    Right now my friend who has a good FS (Santacruz Blur XC) is borrowing my Stumpy HT as he managed to lose his rear mech and I've broken my arm. He keeps telling me how much fun it is to ride a good stiff HT, doesn't mean he wants to throw away his Blur (I wish) but only that he wishes he could have both.

    Definitely :) You can get fixed into either style of riding if you do it too much. The Zaskar is at it's best when you're right up on the front end powering away, the Meta is more like an unstoppable tank which I sit and spin on. Oddly the times for both aren't massively different where I ride.

    I did kind of ignore budget with my comment, the weight penalty between top end hardtails and top end full sus may only be about 3lbs, but to get a full sus that light you'll be spending obscene money compared to the hardtail :)
  • teachermanteacherman Posts: 454
    For me, hardtail = 1-2 hours in the saddle on a fast XC ride.

    Anything over that or very rocky/technical I'd take the FS.

    But that's just me...
    I hate it when people say David Beckham's stupid...its not like anyone ever says: 'Stephen Hawking - he's s**t at football.' Paul Calf
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    I keep messing about with my bikes, but always come back to HTs.

    Saying that I'll build my saracen up once I get the frame back for short rides and harder stuff.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    Mr Wu wrote:
    My other option is to get the crush and buy a cheaper full suss.

    say a grand on each?

    you will get a better speced HT for that money.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Mr WuMr Wu Posts: 1,238
    such as?
  • Mickey EyeMickey Eye Posts: 590
    edited May 2009
    Next year I will be buying a FS frame, no ifs no buts, but it won't be replacing my stumpy. Currently the leaders are Blur LT, Tracer VP, MacMahone Emblem, Nikolai Helius AM, Transition Covert and the Turner 5 Spot. It's going to be a long year of decision making. Butwhen I have it t I will not stop riding my Stumpy into the hills.
  • Mr WuMr Wu Posts: 1,238
    Also,

    Does anyone have a GT force? Ive never seen a review of them are they any good?

    like this one

    http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.p ... gory_id=77
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Cheesey had one - saisd it was great.
  • teachermanteacherman Posts: 454
    http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2006bikes/p7.php

    would get my vote as a hardtail option obviously.
    I hate it when people say David Beckham's stupid...its not like anyone ever says: 'Stephen Hawking - he's s**t at football.' Paul Calf
  • gaz047gaz047 Posts: 601
    hello mate not ridden at these places so can't comment on suitability of either rig.
    here are your options;
    keep the hardtail and get a full sus (if you decide you need one)

    get a new hardtail (if you decide you don't need a full sus)

    if you need a full sus, you've still got a decent hardtail and if you want to you could always upgrade as parts wear out or replace when funds allow

    or as you mentioned split your cash and get one of each (wow 2 new bikes 8) )

    as already mentioned though you need to test some out that are correctly set up for you one things for sure though you can get a hell of a lot of bike for that amount, have fun!
    gaz
    if it ain't rainin.....it ain't trainin
    Stick your 'rules' up your a%se
  • richg1979richg1979 Posts: 1,087
    i had a giant xtc and my bro had a commencal combi, both were near enough as fast as one another around follow the dog on cannock chase.

    i then bought to a giant reign and i left my bro for dead, must have knocked 10mins off my lap of follow the dog, you dont get the back end bumping around and constantly breaking traction like a hardtail and the back wheel follows the surface giving a lot more stability and grip when hammering along and you can keep pedaling over the rough stuff where as you have to coast a hardtail.

    i was planning to keep the xtc to run as just a xc bike but i wouldnt even look at it after i had full sus so it was sold soon after and i can honestly say i dont miss anything about a hardtail..

    i would never go back to a hardtail after riding a full susser, maybe if you only ride fire roads ect then a hardtail will be fine but any trails even the chase the full susser will pull away on most sections.

    if you can afford a good full sus go for it, you will regret it later if you dont when you keep getting left behind by full sussers
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    GT I-drive 5 XCR comes in at a grand incidentally... Only available through Halfords as a factory direct buy though.

    http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... _langId_-1

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... model-9901

    "The current i-Drive 5 is the best all-round suspension bike GT has ever made, and one of the best available anywhere for high traction, high trust riding. We found that it was more than light enough to upgrade to any top line spec you've got your eye on too, which makes this very well equipped entry level version even more of a bargain"

    I'm a little tempted to pick up one of these on my firm's cycle to work next year... Though I suspect I won't, since for most of my riding a ht is probably more suitable, and there's no chance I can afford to build up a second bike to the same standard as my hardtail, so I think the full suss would spend too much time in the garage.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • dawnophiledawnophile Posts: 157
    P7 pro+ does me just fine for everything.
    If you're willing to spend a couple of grand, you could get a titanium On One 456 frame and hang some shiny bits from it. I've thought about getting one and a set of RS Pikes, and taking all the nice bits off my P7.

    I could singlespeed the Orange then...
  • clarksonclarkson Posts: 1,641
    i have a ht and fs. i use either bike depending on which type of riding im doing. i woukdnt take my enduro to the new forest, and i wouldnt take my ht to rogate or anywhere downhilly.

    but ht help you learn to ride smoother, i tend to think of my enduro as a 'lazy bike' as in i dont have to pick lines and stuff.

    at the end of the day some prefer one or the other, i like both and see the advantages to both, you might be different.
    I said hit the brakes not the tree!!

    2006 Specialized Enduro Expert
    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3192886/

    2008 Custom Merlin Malt 4
    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2962222/

    2008 GT Avalanche Expert
    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3453980/
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    edited May 2009
    richg1979 wrote:
    i would never go back to a hardtail after riding a full susser, maybe if you only ride fire roads ect then a hardtail will be fine but any trails even the chase the full susser will pull away on most sections.

    if you can afford a good full sus go for it, you will regret it later if you dont when you keep getting left behind by full sussers

    Fair enough if speed is everything to you... I find that if my mates bring their full sussers out to play i do get left behind a little, and I'd probably be faster on a full suss, but it's not a race. Personally I couldn't care less how fast I get round a lap of the red, it's how much fun I have when I'm doing it. You love your full suss and that's grand but you seem to be assuming that everyone else thinks the same way- just look at this thread and the previous HT vs FS threads to see how many people don't feel them same. (oh, not to mention that you're comparing a very racy XC bike with a 140mm trail bike)

    A HT is fine for an awful lot more than fire roads... One came in 164th out of 400 in the 08 megavalanche ;) So he didn't get left behind by 232 full suss riders in the final (there were another 3 HTs in the top 400) , let alone the hundreds that didn't qualify :lol: I don't think cannock chase is tougher than the mega.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Mr WuMr Wu Posts: 1,238
    dawnophile wrote:
    P7 pro+ does me just fine for everything.
    If you're willing to spend a couple of grand, you could get a titanium On One 456 frame and hang some shiny bits from it. I've thought about getting one and a set of RS Pikes, and taking all the nice bits off my P7.

    I could singlespeed the Orange then...

    Thats the other HT i was looking at.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    richg1979 wrote:

    if you can afford a good full sus go for it, you will regret it later if you dont when you keep getting left behind by full sussers

    A bit of a sweeping statement I think, a bit more to consider.
  • gezzzagezzza Posts: 324
    For most XC a FS bike is just a skills compensator it makes mer mortals quicker as you can make mistakes and get away with it.

    A skilled ride will be quicker on a hardtail in most XC in the UK

    of course i ride a FS bike as I'm just a mortal who makes mistakes and i don't want to eat dirt i also like the extra bit of comfort on them long days in the saddle
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Just so many variables for this sort of riding. have to try some out.
  • Mickey EyeMickey Eye Posts: 590
    I'm with Northwind. there is more to the ride than speed. I like the rides I've had borrowing my friends Blur but the connection you have with the ground is something else. There are things I won't do on my 90mm travel HT but the grins you can get out of it for specific tracks are priceless.

    And I'll still be getting an FS next year.
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