Cunego's ongoing comments
Comments
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IMO the fact remains that the performances in this Giro are remarkable for their lack of remarkability.
As someone else said it's been a series of one day classics. Upto the rest day Wiggins was still only around 4 minutes off the lead on what was supposedly a mountainous start to the Giro with Cunego just a minute ahead of him.
Given that Garmin are generally considered to be the standard bearers of clean cycling, and Wiggins a cyclist that many who still trust cyclists choose to trust in, isn't his first 10 day performances a barometer of what has been a tour of cagey, tactical riding?0 -
I have feeling he is telling the truth...iainf72 wrote:What do we think? Some in cyclingnews today
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /may21news
Should he shut it until he can tell the truth? Or is he right to talk?0 -
alanmcn1 wrote:
I agree, not everyone who passes DC is cheating, alot of them just simply have more talent. However some , DDL in particular, just look too good to be true. And recent history suggests there is only one reason for that............Basso, Chicken, Kohl, Schummacher, Rebellin...............................................
Why too good to be true ? He looks in good form and has played to his strengths - fast finishing kick on hills and good descender. Yes of course he could be on the juice and he has a record for it - but his performances are nothing like watching Basso, Ricco or Contador ride away from all the GC contenders and end up with a couple of minutes on them at the top. What you are basically saying is there is no way DiLuca can win a grand tour without doping - maybe that's true I don't know - but it's hardly superhuman so far - after today there's a fair chance he wont even be in pink.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
alanmcn1 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Timoid. wrote:BTW: F Schleck and Vandedvelde will do no better than top ten at best at the Tour. Keep your money in your piggy bank.
So doping is worse this year than last?! They got 6th and 5th last year (and Kohl got 3rd...). This year Andy will be up there on the podium possibly.
Amazingly I've just seen that AG2R came 2nd in the team classification!
I've never looked on Cunego as a GT rider (I know he won the Giro once), so am not so surprised to see him struggling. Maybe more than I expected but that could be put down to very normal reasons.
It sounds like some of you are tarnishing most of the riders that beat him, so include LA, Levi and Sastre in there...and Wiggins too, following your train of thought as he passed Cunego.
He is just having a poor tour. It happens.
I agree, not everyone who passes DC is cheating, alot of them just simply have more talent. However some , DDL in particular, just look too good to be true. And recent history suggests there is only one reason for that............Basso, Chicken, Kohl, Schummacher, Rebellin...............................................
No. Not everyone who finishes ahead of him is dirty.
In my personal and based on nothing but what I see and read in the media opinion and in no way reflecting the thoughts of BIkeradar or any of its sister companies or employees, of the riders that are beating DC:
Di Luca is as dirty as you can get. On a scale of 1-10 he's an 11.
Leipheimer is a product USPS school of getting away with it.
Rogers was part of a team that indulged in systematic doping
Menchov is known to spend a lot of time in Vienna
Armstrong has had scientific, but not legal proof of major doping
Sastre was part of CSC, another intrinsicly dirty team and unless like Basso, he has changed is stripes, he is to be regarded with major suspicion. Bartoli got that whole team on a programme
Soler is a Corti protege (as was Cunego in his doping days)
Basso seems to be clean. He is doing all he can to prove it anyway
Lovqvist seems above board and I wish him well in any race
Oh and the entire LPR team is a mobile pharmalogical testing ground, Wheezyjet and all.
Wiggins beat DC on one stage on a gentle(ish) slope, more suited to a climbing time tialist. It was a jour sans for DC and a feather in the cap of Wiggins. The tables were reversed majorly on Tuesday. Wiggins is clean without a doubt in my mind.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
So sad, so very probably true.Timoid. wrote:...Di Luca is as dirty as you can get. On a scale of 1-10 he's an 11.
Leipheimer is a product USPS school of getting away with it.
Rogers was part of a team that indulged in systematic doping
Menchov is known to spend a lot of time in Vienna
Armstrong has had scientific, but not legal proof of major doping
Sastre was part of CSC, another intrinsicly dirty team and unless like Basso, he has changed is stripes, he is to be regarded with major suspicion. Bartoli got that whole team on a programme
Soler is a Corti protege (as was Cunego in his doping days)
...Oh and the entire LPR team is a mobile pharmalogical testing ground, Wheezyjet and all.
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aurelio wrote:
So sad, so very probably true.Timoid. wrote:...Di Luca is as dirty as you can get. On a scale of 1-10 he's an 11.
Leipheimer is a product USPS school of getting away with it.
Rogers was part of a team that indulged in systematic doping
Menchov is known to spend a lot of time in Vienna
Armstrong has had scientific, but not legal proof of major doping
Sastre was part of CSC, another intrinsicly dirty team and unless like Basso, he has changed is stripes, he is to be regarded with major suspicion. Bartoli got that whole team on a programme
Soler is a Corti protege (as was Cunego in his doping days)
...Oh and the entire LPR team is a mobile pharmalogical testing ground, Wheezyjet and all.
Nice summation of your opinions! It is enough to put off any newbie to the sport...Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:aurelio wrote:
So sad, so very probably true.Timoid. wrote:...Di Luca is as dirty as you can get. On a scale of 1-10 he's an 11.
Leipheimer is a product USPS school of getting away with it.
Rogers was part of a team that indulged in systematic doping
Menchov is known to spend a lot of time in Vienna
Armstrong has had scientific, but not legal proof of major doping
Sastre was part of CSC, another intrinsicly dirty team and unless like Basso, he has changed is stripes, he is to be regarded with major suspicion. Bartoli got that whole team on a programme
Soler is a Corti protege (as was Cunego in his doping days)
...Oh and the entire LPR team is a mobile pharmalogical testing ground, Wheezyjet and all.
Nice summation of your opinions! It is enough to put off any newbie to the sport...
Truth hurts.0 -
I wasn't being sarcastic btw...Contador is the Greatest0
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Neither was I. It's better if new cycling fans learn the truth sooner rather than later, no?0
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You can still enjoy the sport, just support those making the right noises.0
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Yeah but if Sastre is implicated because of the team he rode for why not Cunego - haven't Lampre had a number of positives in the last few years ? Someone convince me why Cunego is clean other than he's 5 minutes down on the GC.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
I thought the cyclingnews report was reading more into his comments than was actually there. Cunego seems to be doing a Vaughters - not admitting to his own sins but alluding to them and making noises that he is now riding clean and with a clear conscience.
And according to procycling he's definitely not going to Sky, nor is Ballan.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Yeah but if Sastre is implicated because of the team he rode for why not Cunego - haven't Lampre had a number of positives in the last few years ? Someone convince me why Cunego is clean other than he's 5 minutes down on the GC.
This guilty by team asociation claim only seems to apply to certain teams and certain riders. Recently there have been occasions when the guilty by association claim has been flung back at the folks making the allegation to be met with stony silence. Make of that what you will.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Timoid. wrote:Menchov is known to spend a lot of time in Vienna
Wiggins is clean without a doubt in my mind.
On these two statements what have you got on Denis Menchov other than tittle tattle ?
On Wiggins you have condemned Sastre and Leipheimer on team assocaition and nothing more you should be doing the same with Wiggins or is the team associaton thing only apply to ceratin riders and certain nationalities ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
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Moray Gub wrote:
If you like. There's more bad than good in this Giro, that's for sure.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:afx237vi wrote:If you like. There's more bad than good in this Giro, that's for sure.
Maybe you should stick to watching football. Plenty of entertainment there....
Or maybe darts, golf or snooker they always sets the pulses racing!
What makes you think any of those sports are less crooked than pro cycling? Numerous Italian and Spanish football clubs have been linked to organised doping (Eufemiano Fuentes worked at football clubs before he went freelance). Gary Player has said doping is commonplace on the PGA Tour. Both sports have done everything they can to prevent proper testing from being implemented.
Snooker and darts have been entangled in various match fixing and betting stings for decades.
I like watching cycling, warts and all. Please don't tell me what sports I should and should not watch. At least the fans of cycling are willing to admit it has a problem. Some of them, anyway.0 -
afx237vi wrote:[. Please don't tell me what sports I should and should not watch. At least the fans of cycling are willing to admit it has a problem. Some of them, anyway.
The thing is you see bad in almost every rider over 25 who does a half decent ride sometimes on no more than team association alone , i dont see how you can enjoy cycling with that kind of thought process...............or maybe its just me.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:Yeah but if Sastre is implicated because of the team he rode for why not Cunego - haven't Lampre had a number of positives in the last few years ? Someone convince me why Cunego is clean other than he's 5 minutes down on the GC.
This guilty by team asociation claim only seems to apply to certain teams and certain riders. Recently there have been occasions when the guilty by association claim has been flung back at the folks making the allegation to be met with stony silence. Make of that what you will.
the guilty by team association theory does not hold water much...e.g. klodi went to Austria, Ullrich Spain, and anyone really famous I am certain would not be advertising their medical prep to anyone but the most trusted inner circle-not a team of 15 people he may not know very well and who will be writing their memoires 5 years down the road. Festina is not the norm now I think...it's individuals I'd say...though I have not the inside knowledge of it0 -
Organised doping certainly existed. You can't generalise but perhaps you can loosely place teams into three camps:
The fully organised
Saiz was caught red handed buying boxes of hormones from Fuentes, so the Madrid doctor was supplying and advising the Liberty Seguros outfit. It takes a big leap of faith to imagine some riders on the squad were being exempted from these detailed and prescriptive doping plans. T-Mobile was the same, internalising the scheme within Heinrich Lothar's lab at Freiburg University. Go back further and courtroom testimony from the likes of Alex Zuelle reveal comprehensive plans within ONCE and Banesto.
The outsourcers
Other teams realised the benefits of "outsourcing" their doping programmes, trusting an expert who kept a physical distance from the team. See CSC and several of their riders being linked to Cecchini or Rabobank's Viennese connection.
The "not me guv" teams
Then you have the example of other teams who don't want to know, for example Ag2r didn't ask many questions about Mancebo's performances before he got busted. When he left T-Mobile for Coast, Ullrich left the organised scheme and presumably hooked up with Fuentes then, the team had hired a roster of ex-Kelme riders like Aitor "special cranks" Gonzalez.
People can spend their time asking roughly where Phonak, Fassa Bortolo or Discovery fit into these loose categories. Maybe Quick-Step fits between the second and third group, it would be a big surprise to think Pat Lefevere didn't know who Museeuw was working with.
There is of course a fourth group: the clean teams. Outfits like FDJ, Cofidis, Garmin, Columbia and Bouygues are reputed to be the clean teams today. To return to the debate of supporting riders and enjoying the sport, I'm a big supporter of these teams (yes, I know Columbia is staffed by a lot of ex-dopers) and it's always good to see one of these riders win.0 -
They have Mick "sickie dodger" Rogers but who else? Hincapie and Kirchen?0
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iainf72 wrote:Kléber wrote:They have Mick "sickie dodger" Rogers but who else? Hincapie and Kirchen?
That's it but it's more than 10% of the team.
They're mostly ok - I even like a few of the riders.
Please tell me, other than being on a team that has links to organised doping within a certain faction within the team, not all the team, what evidence do you have that rogers doped!!!!!
Correct me if I'm wrong, there has been pretty strong evidence in the report on the Frieburg Clinic, and anectdotal evidence from other riders, that Rogers wasn't involved...
Goin on what you say and your way of thinking, everyone in the professional peloton has been involved in doping, because I dare say, that just about every current team has a rider in it that has come from a team with some sort of doping story attached to it.
C'mon guys, work on something a bit stronger that "other riders in the team doped so rider a must have doped as well" Going on that, lets just write off the whole professional peloton and start again!!!!
Heck, going on the way some of you think, I'm not sure I want to hang out with my friends anymore, I'm sure someone they knows may have broken the law at some time in there life, that must mean they were all involved!!!!!
What about some optimism for the future and the progress being made, not pessimistic muck racking based on rumour, inuendo and associating guilt with a rider just because other riders in the team have doped. Remember, these guys ride for a job, they have mortgages like everyone else and a family to feed, so when they get to a team, and find out what SOME of the other riders are doing, they might not like it, they probably don't join in and do it, but they are in contract and still need to pay there mortgages so remain in the team and race, but don't join the "medical program of some riders". I personally know of several riders who have joined teams and found about about the practises of some riders within the team, however they choose to do there own thing without resorting to the dodgy practises of there team mates. Rogers pedigree, right from the start has been pretty good, is it possible that he is just a good rider affected by the crimes of some of his team mates, and suffers from speculation because of the behaviour of others beyond his control.
Please, if you have anything solid on Rogers other than a group of t-mobile riders went to the Frieburg Clinic for a transfusion, put it out there for us to see. I'm pretty sure there is more evidence to support he wasn't involved, than evidence to support he went with Sinkewitz and co........
As for those who have doped and are doping, hope you get caught, and we don't see you in the sport anymore.0 -
FWIW I think Rogers is riding clean now at Columbia (he certainly isn't standing out from the crowd at the Giro). My only concern is DDLs "red bull gives you wings" climbing abilityRobert Millar for knighthood0
