Etape Caledonia sabotaged

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  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    Douglas Rogers wrote:
    One of the chief protagonist for the campaign to keep the roads open is Norman Beedie DRSAM LRAM ARCM, http://tinyurl.com/r4rjxr for more details. Hi lives on the route (PH15 2LE) and clearly expects space and government funding for the arts but not the sports. A few letters to him might be appropriate to show the strength of feeling?
    We might have to modify the 'white settlers' hypothesis. It looks as though he is a born and bred Scot!
  • fenski
    fenski Posts: 119
    pneumatic wrote:
    This in from the Scotsman report:

    ... We very much regret what has happened, but it is an example of the frustration felt when the local council does not understand the needs of local people."

    As perfect an example of NIMBYISM as you are likely to encounter! He expects the council to pander to the whims of a tiny number of people who are obviously hugely set in their ways, rather than welcome a few thousand people who bring several hundred thousand pounds into the local economy!

    This ACRE group seem to want their cake and eat it - yes we want the Caley Etape, but no we don't want closed roads. You cant have it both ways! Have they any idea what an open road event with 3500 participants would be like?
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    What these 'saboteurs' don't have in mind is the event is about raising money for charity. I was astonished when it come over on radio 2 yesterday about this happening.

    I mean christ almighty the roads weren't closed for that long were they? And anyway it was on a Sunday anyway, not exactly a business day.

    Don't get it .... :roll:
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    edited May 2009
    disquieting_museeuws wrote:
    why is there always this morbid, obsesive jealousy from a few when cycling is involved?
    Simple, it is an expression of classical 'authoritarian' hostility towards a low-status 'out group' in a society where the dominant 'in group' drive cars! Such hostility is particularly likely to be expressed in inequitable, status-orientated and hierarchical countries such as the UK, the USA and Australia. (It's no coincidence that the most 'cycling friendly' countries also tend to be those which hold 'egalitarian' values in high regard, such as Denmark and Holland!).

    Such a conclusion is also supported by the findings of The Transport Research Laboratory study Drivers' perceptions of cyclists. Will Storr, writing in The Observer of 4 June 2006, summarised the findings of Drivers' perceptions of cyclists as follows:


    A recent report for the government... found that drivers treat cyclists as 'out-group'. According to social-identity theory, this means that there is a multi-forked bias against us, which takes the form of that pernicious trident of hate - discrimination, stereotyping and prejudice. So, in the head of a typical driver, subconsciously and automatically, things like these happen: the behaviour of the worst cyclist is used to judge them all; any cash the council visibly spends on them seems maddeningly unfair; any accident is the cyclist's fault; when making a decision, the motorist puts the needs of other motorists first; any behaviour at all that is 'different' to the driver's own is wrong. And so on. These are precisely the same primeval mental sparks that lead to football hooliganism, gang warfare and racism. Provocative and hateful newspaper reports about 'two-wheeled terrorists' merely stir up tribalism - basic, brutal and bad. It's the most dangerous and atrocious human impulse there is.
  • guinea
    guinea Posts: 1,177
    aurelio wrote:
    Douglas Rogers wrote:
    One of the chief protagonist for the campaign to keep the roads open is Norman Beedie DRSAM LRAM ARCM, http://tinyurl.com/r4rjxr for more details. Hi lives on the route (PH15 2LE) and clearly expects space and government funding for the arts but not the sports. A few letters to him might be appropriate to show the strength of feeling?
    We might have to modify the 'white settlers' hypothesis. It looks as though he is a born and bred Scot!

    Maybe, but it looks like he lives and works in London.

    Obviously this awful cycle malarky is terribly inconvenient for his weekends in the country.
  • guinea
    guinea Posts: 1,177
    aurelio wrote:
    Simple, it is an expression of classical 'authoritarian' hostility towards a low-status 'out group' in a society where the dominant 'in group' drive cars! Such hostility is particularly likely to be expressed in inequitable, status-orientated and hierarchical countries such as the UK, the USA and Australia. (It's no coincidence that the most 'cycling friendly' countries also tend to be those which hold 'egalitarian' values in high regards, such as Denmark and Holland!).

    Such a conclusion is also supported by the findings of The Transport Research Laboratory study Drivers' perceptions of cyclists. Will Storr, writing in The Observer of 4 June 2006, summarised the findings of Drivers' perceptions of cyclists as follows:


    A recent report for the government... found that drivers treat cyclists as 'out-group'. According to social-identity theory, this means that there is a multi-forked bias against us, which takes the form of that pernicious trident of hate - discrimination, stereotyping and prejudice. So, in the head of a typical driver, subconsciously and automatically, things like these happen: the behaviour of the worst cyclist is used to judge them all; any cash the council visibly spends on them seems maddeningly unfair; any accident is the cyclist's fault; when making a decision, the motorist puts the needs of other motorists first; any behaviour at all that is 'different' to the driver's own is wrong. And so on. These are precisely the same primeval mental sparks that lead to football hooliganism, gang warfare and racism. Provocative and hateful newspaper reports about 'two-wheeled terrorists' merely stir up tribalism - basic, brutal and bad. It's the most dangerous and atrocious human impulse there is.

    Great post/quote.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    aurelio wrote:
    disquieting_museeuws wrote:
    why is there always this morbid, obsesive jealousy from a few when cycling is involved?
    Simple, it is an expression of classical 'authoritarian' hostility towards a low-status 'out group' in a society where the dominant 'in group' drive cars! Such hostility is particularly likely to be expressed in inequitable, status-orientated and hierarchical countries such as the UK, the USA and Australia. (It's no coincidence that the most 'cycling friendly' countries also tend to be those which hold 'egalitarian' values in high regards, such as Denmark and Holland!).

    Such a conclusion is also supported by the findings of The Transport Research Laboratory study Drivers' perceptions of cyclists. Will Storr, writing in The Observer of 4 June 2006, summarised the findings of Drivers' perceptions of cyclists as follows:

    A recent report for the government... found that drivers treat cyclists as 'out-group'. According to social-identity theory, this means that there is a multi-forked bias against us, which takes the form of that pernicious trident of hate - discrimination, stereotyping and prejudice.

    So, in the head of a typical driver, subconsciously and automatically, things like these happen: the behaviour of the worst cyclist is used to judge them all; any cash the council visibly spends on them seems maddeningly unfair; any accident is the cyclist's fault; when making a decision, the motorist puts the needs of other motorists first; any behaviour at all that is 'different' to the driver's own is wrong. And so on. These are precisely the same primeval mental sparks that lead to football hooliganism, gang warfare and racism. Provocative and hateful newspaper reports about 'two-wheeled terrorists' merely stir up tribalism - basic, brutal and bad. It's the most dangerous and atrocious human impulse there is.

    I sometimes get the impression that drivers feel somehow threatened by cyclists and in particular the ones that are in really good shape or are racing at the time. As if we are part of some vicious gang or are to be feared for some reason. I guess that would sort of explain why some people go by you in cars and yell "faggot", then speed off. It makes them feel like they "got over" on you and they are "tough guys".

    Dennis Noward
  • bahzob
    bahzob Posts: 2,195
    pedylan wrote:
    I'm in.

    Hotel to be selected with care though. Wouldn't want to provide income to all those local businesses who don't approve of the event.

    Ah, on second thoughts booking with such a business might be harder than I think. :wink:

    I'd recommend the Rosemont. People there were very welcoming, emailing us in advance to ask what we would like evening before and putting on a breakfast for us all at 5.30. Just 2 mins (downhill) to the start which also helps..

    http://www.booking.com/hotel/gb/rosemount-pitlochry.en.html?aid=311076;label=hotel-34610-gb-Eo0FHgPmxEa65gOh2um3hwS672110484;ws=&gclid=CPTdyu_AxpoCFdVM5QodrTyWsw[url][/url]
    Martin S. Newbury RC
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    dennisn wrote:
    I sometimes get the impression that drivers feel somehow threatened by cyclists and in particular the ones that are in really good shape or are racing at the time. As if we are part of some vicious gang or are to be feared for some reason. I guess that would sort of explain why some people go by you in cars and yell "faggot", then speed off. It makes them feel like they "got over" on you and they are "tough guys".
    I doubt that your theory is correct. They are in a car which, psychologically, makes them feel far more powerful than any cyclist or group of cyclists. Also, plenty of cyclists who are not lycra-clad racers get intimidated and bullied by motorists as well! for a driver to Claire Corbett in her book 'Car Crime' said this of the dominant elitism associated with car use:

    Elitist attitudes are so deeply rooted that we hardly question the dominant ideology of the 'car as master' (e.g. Davis 1992). Pedestrians have to avoid the car rather than the other way around, pedestrians have to use unpleasant underpasses to facilitate traffic flow. The widely perceived sacrosanct 'right to drive' has been described by Coward (2001) as 'synonymous with individual freedoms' and 'challenging them is akin to violating human rights'. Objections to cars and traffic offending can be considered prudish (ibid.). This 'car as master' attitude is epitomised by the cult appeal, political incorrectness and machismo of media pundits who regularly derogate 'bad' or 'slow' drivers (those who adhere to speed limits) and applaud high speed (e.g. Clarkson 2000, 2002a, 2002b).

    ...The elitism of individual drivers' beliefs in the superiority of their own driving may prove difficult to tackle, as may the elitism of drivers who see themselves as superior to other road users. The attitude shifts required to appreciate that a driving licence is a privilege and not a right, that road safety is for drivers to respect pedestrians as much as it is for pedestrians to respect vehicles, and that lack of intention to do harm when deliberately breaking a traffic law does not absolve all responsibility, may prove elusive in a social climate where victims of car culture and car crime are treated as inconvenient rather than as a major problem.

    As to the 'faggots' insult, that probably reflects the degree of homophobia over there in the land of God n' guns. Homosexuals over there pretty much constitute a marginalised out-group as well, and studies of 'out group' psychology show that those hostile to one 'out group' are likely to be hostile to all out-groups. They are merely generalising their hostility to out-groups.

    I recall that thirty years ago it was common for cyclists to be called 'puffs' in the UK, but I haven’t heard that for years, probably because in the UK being homosexual is not so much of a challenge to the social norm as it once was and being called 'gay' is not the insult it once was either. Just look at who replaced the dreadful Wogan on Eurovision!
  • nwallace
    nwallace Posts: 1,465
    edited May 2009
    snowcycle wrote:
    Really , they can't ride a bicycle 3 miles to the church? Would have been great to join in to the fun part of the event (not everyone was racing), and possibly sell local produce like cakes to cyclists as they pass by? Offer water to participants?

    <pedant> Not thay can't cycle the 3 miles to church because the road is closed to the public for the purposes of a cycle race</pedant>

    Also it seems Perth and Kinross have no jurisdiction for closing roads for Cycle Races, The Secretary of State retain that power.

    Lifted from a post from another site:
    Novaecosse I believe is an employee of one of the trunk road maintanance companies.
    novaecosse wrote:
    I don't believe PKC hold the necessary legal powers to close roads for the purposes of holding a cycle race.

    PKC invoke Section 16A of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 to close the roads for an event.
    Quote:
    (4) An order under this section—
    (c) may not be made in relation to any race or trial falling within subsection (1) of section 31 of that Act (regulation of cycle racing on public ways) unless the race or trial is authorised by or under regulations made under that section.

    Authorisation comes from the Secretary of State under sub-section 2.
    (Section 31 Road Traffic Act 1988)

    Every rider in the race has committed an offence under Section 31 of the Road Traffic Act. :twisted:

    So what marks the difference between a race and a sportive that publishes times and results?

    Jim Clark Rally is this weekend coming, 3 days of road closures in areas similarly remote, but has quiote a few more alternatibe routes.
    Do Nellyphants count?

    Commuter: FCN 9
    Cheapo Roadie: FCN 5
    Off Road: FCN 11

    +1 when I don't get round to shaving for x days
  • sawarze
    sawarze Posts: 7
    + 1 for next year's event - excellent organisation and felt very welcome by all of Perthshire, except the crap carpet fitters. The marshalls, outriders, mavic boys and pipers were superb - worth mentioning the excellent sense of humour from the Army cadets and volunteers on the top of Schiehallion, not to mention the participants.

    I posted a comment on this site: http://blog.commentonline.co.uk/ earlier today actually complementing the local residents for their support despite the incident - nothing remotely offensive. 2 hours later it has been removed - sad! I don't think they want to hear positive feedback from participants or consider that their stunt might make people more determined to come back.

    With this level of idiocy we will need to watch out for snipers next year - should make the ride interesting though.
  • Sjaak
    Sjaak Posts: 99
    nwallace wrote:

    <pedant> Not thay can't cycle the 3 miles to church because the road is closed to the public for the purposes of a cycle race</pedant>

    No, the road was only closed for motorised vehicles. One could still cycle or walk down the 'closed off' roads.
  • andy_from_embsay
    andy_from_embsay Posts: 343
    In fact the bloke who was allegedly seen spreading the tacks was on a bike.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    aurelio wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    I sometimes get the impression that drivers feel somehow threatened by cyclists and in particular the ones that are in really good shape or are racing at the time. As if we are part of some vicious gang or are to be feared for some reason. I guess that would sort of explain why some people go by you in cars and yell "faggot", then speed off. It makes them feel like they "got over" on you and they are "tough guys".
    I doubt that your theory is correct. They are in a car which, psychologically, makes them feel far more powerful than any cyclist or group of cyclists. Also, plenty of cyclists who are not lycra-clad racers get intimidated and bullied by motorists as well! for a driver to Claire Corbett in her book 'Car Crime' said this of the dominant elitism associated with car use:

    Elitist attitudes are so deeply rooted that we hardly question the dominant ideology of the 'car as master' (e.g. Davis 1992). Pedestrians have to avoid the car rather than the other way around, pedestrians have to use unpleasant underpasses to facilitate traffic flow. The widely perceived sacrosanct 'right to drive' has been described by Coward (2001) as 'synonymous with individual freedoms' and 'challenging them is akin to violating human rights'. Objections to cars and traffic offending can be considered prudish (ibid.). This 'car as master' attitude is epitomised by the cult appeal, political incorrectness and machismo of media pundits who regularly derogate 'bad' or 'slow' drivers (those who adhere to speed limits) and applaud high speed (e.g. Clarkson 2000, 2002a, 2002b).

    ...The elitism of individual drivers' beliefs in the superiority of their own driving may prove difficult to tackle, as may the elitism of drivers who see themselves as superior to other road users. The attitude shifts required to appreciate that a driving licence is a privilege and not a right, that road safety is for drivers to respect pedestrians as much as it is for pedestrians to respect vehicles, and that lack of intention to do harm when deliberately breaking a traffic law does not absolve all responsibility, may prove elusive in a social climate where victims of car culture and car crime are treated as inconvenient rather than as a major problem.

    As to the 'faggots' insult, that probably reflects the degree of homophobia over there in the land of God n' guns. Homosexuals over there pretty much constitute a marginalised out-group as well, and studies of 'out group' psychology show that those hostile to one 'out group' are likely to be hostile to all out-groups. They are merely generalising their hostility to out-groups.

    I recall that thirty years ago it was common for cyclists to be called 'puffs' in the UK, but I haven’t heard that for years, probably because in the UK being homosexual is not so much of a challenge to the social norm as it once was and being called 'gay' is not the insult it once was either. Just look at who replaced the dreadful Wogan on Eurovision!

    I can see your points but tend to disagree about the people yelling and coming a bit to close. If they already feel superior to the cyclist, then why the need to yell obscenities
    and the like when they go by, if not to further enhance this superior feeling or to just show off for their buddies in the car with them? I.e. "tough guys".
    As for the "fag" thing I guess I don't really hear it that much these days. Like you said it's
    becoming a bit of the norm over here. However 30 years ago it was very common to be called a fag by, what seemed like, more than a few passing cars. Especially if you were perceived as slowing them down or simply because only a fag would wear that kind of stuff.

    Dennis Noward
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    aurelio wrote:

    I spent some time living up there in the days before bikes were given the right to cycle on off-road paths. The hassle I got on my MTB was astonishing. (Although driving a 4x4 along the same tracks seemed to be fine). One local farmer used to threaten everybody on a bike that he saw and even blasted one guy’s mountain bike with his shotgun!

    Ive been cycling all around Scotland on a mountain bike for well on 20 years now . All over the Trossachs which is on my doorstep down in the borders,Hebridean Islands,Sutherland Caithness,Lothian,Ayrshire,Deeside,Fife all manner of woods forests paths, fields you name it i have cycled it and never once in all that time did i ever get anyone raise an objection. Yet you have had guys firing shotguns at bikes ??????? I dunno i just dont buy it. i think you are letting your anti scottish feeling cloud your memory.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • 3leggeddog
    3leggeddog Posts: 150
    As the biggest achievment of the "tack attack" has been to discredit ACRE, is anyone else wondering if the tacks were spread by someone pro etape?

    disclaimer, I am reading orwell again

    Mallard, chinese crested, crispy
  • nwallace
    nwallace Posts: 1,465
    Sjaak wrote:
    nwallace wrote:

    <pedant> Not thay can't cycle the 3 miles to church because the road is closed to the public for the purposes of a cycle race</pedant>

    No, the road was only closed for motorised vehicles. One could still cycle or walk down the 'closed off' roads.

    Got a copy of the closure order? I couldn't find a copy on the web to check if the closure was only for motorised vehicles.
    A full closure would be possible and the roads would then be available exclusivley to the race participants.
    You can't just hop over the barriers and run the london marathon can you?
    Do Nellyphants count?

    Commuter: FCN 9
    Cheapo Roadie: FCN 5
    Off Road: FCN 11

    +1 when I don't get round to shaving for x days
  • pedylan
    pedylan Posts: 768
    3leggeddog wrote:
    As the biggest achievment of the "tack attack" has been to discredit ACRE, is anyone else wondering if the tacks were spread by someone pro etape?

    disclaimer, I am reading orwell again

    Mallard, chinese crested, crispy

    Machiavelli would be better able to do this theory justice.
    Where the neon madmen climb
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    edited May 2009
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Ive been cycling all around Scotland on a mountain bike for well on 20 years now . All over the Trossachs which is on my doorstep down in the borders,Hebridean Islands,Sutherland Caithness,Lothian,Ayrshire,Deeside,Fife all manner of woods forests paths, fields you name it i have cycled it and never once in all that time did i ever get anyone raise an objection. Yet you have had guys firing shotguns at bikes ??????? I dunno i just dont buy it. i think you are letting your anti scottish feeling cloud your memory.
    Nothing wrong with my memory. One of the biggest nutters was the guy at Dumyat farm just east of Stirling. I might even dig out some of my old photos of all the 'No Bikes' signs, 'English Tourists fuck off home' graffiti (for example, at Alva Glen) and so on I came across on my travels around there. To be fair I understand that things are much better now.

    This was another incident that happened at the same time I was up there, involving the Glen Turret Estate keeper, Ian McPhee, who had a habit of deliberately running down people he found riding mountain bikes on tracks on 'his' land.

    http://bubl.ac.uk/org/tacit/tac/tac24/andtheyc.htm

    P.s. As a regular around there are all the 'No bikes' signs still up on the Glen Artney to Callender route?
  • a10eun
    a10eun Posts: 2
    One more to add to the list, i am in. May be living abroad by then but worth the trip home. I am now obsessed with riding more sportives before the year is out.
  • Sjaak
    Sjaak Posts: 99
    nwallace wrote:
    Got a copy of the closure order? I couldn't find a copy on the web to check if the closure was only for motorised vehicles.
    A full closure would be possible and the roads would then be available exclusivley to the race participants.
    You can't just hop over the barriers and run the london marathon can you?

    Here's some 'friendly' advice from ACRE (lifted from http://www.commentonline.co.uk/general/ ... omACRE.htm). Find more documents by searching for ACRE here: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=acre+site%3Awww.commentonline.co.uk
    Protest Protocol: Advice from ACRE

    ACRE, the Highland Perthsire group campaigning against the closure of roads for the Etape cycle race, has been contacted by a number of local people who are considering actively protesting their disapproval of the road closures during the race on 18 May. Although ACRE has no resources to collaborate as a body with such action, it nevertheless offers to peole so minded the following advice.

    * You have right to peaceful assembly and demonstration on the public highway, provided it is not unreasonably obstructive and does not constitute a public or private nuisance.
    *
    * You can obstruct the highway for a ‘short, reasonable period’ (but what is a ‘short and reasonable’ duration is not defined and is subject to the interpretation of the police/courts).
    *
    * You have an absolute right to pass and re-pass along the public highway. A road closure order must specify the class of traffic prohibited. In this case it is vehicular traffic, but cannot include bicycles, or the event could not take place.
    *
    * Therefore:
    *
    * You may walk, cycle, walk dogs, ride or lead horses, move cattle, sheep etc.
    *
    * You should not obstruct other traffic, but as a rough rule-of-thumb, you can occupy your half of the road.
    *

    Cyclists taking part in the event are legally obliged to ride in a manner which does not endanger other road users or cause them fear or alarm. To do otherwise is an offence.
    (This is an important point, as those who travel at excessive speed and ‘take the racing line’ by cutting corners are likely to jeopardise the safety of and / or cause fear and alarm to other road users).
    The race marshalls have no legal authority whatsoever.

    The police should not interfere with your right to demonstrate, unless failing to do so would result in a serious threat to public safety or order.

    Dos and Donts

    DO:

    * Be polite, talk softly, and obey the instructions of the police.
    * Enquire politely as to why a police instruction is being given, but do not disobey it, or delay compliance by arguing.
    * Note the rank and numbers of officers giving you instructions, ask for their names.
    * If you feel endangered or alarmed by the conduct of event cyclists - ring the police and complain.
    * If marshalls are abusive, make physical contact with you, or shout at you - ring the police and complain.

    DO NOT:

    * Obstruct the event cyclists, other than by insisting on your share of the highway.
    Do not make physical contact with anyone, or shout at or abuse them in any way.

    Remember:
    the offence of ‘breach of the peace’ is extremely elastic – it can include seemingly innocuous acts such as raising your voice; and the gentlest of touches can be considered to be an assault – so keep yourself ‘fireproof’.
  • nwallace
    nwallace Posts: 1,465
    That's assuming they are right and the event can only take place with the closure only being non-cycle traffic.

    But if that was the case then all the cyclists would be under the jurisdiction of the road traffic act, which means inconsiderate and dangerous cycling in the realms of the road traffic act and not cycle racing is a criminal offence. e.g. Failing to keep left, undertaking, riding at a speed at which you can not stop within the distance you can see to be clear.

    And if a closure order was taken out to prevent all access for the purposes of carrying out road works, does that mean the workmen can be prosecuted for allowing themselves be pedestrians in the closure section?

    Anyhow, any chance of the intermediate route and start time more suitable for afternoon people?
    Do Nellyphants count?

    Commuter: FCN 9
    Cheapo Roadie: FCN 5
    Off Road: FCN 11

    +1 when I don't get round to shaving for x days
  • grantus
    grantus Posts: 690
    Nothing wrong with my memory. One of the biggest nutters was the guy at Dumyat farm just east of Stirling. I might even dig out some of my old photos of all the 'No Bikes' signs, 'English Tourists fuck of home' graffiti (for example, at Alva Glen) and so on I came across on my travels around there. To be fair I understand that things are much better now.

    Well you should just have told him to fu*k right off!

    Also, re. the anti-english graffiti - probably daft neds who wouldn't think twice about sticking a buckfast bottle over yer napper if you walked through their underpass at the wrong time, regardless of your nationality - nothing really to do with race - just fuc*wits - the same kind you get everywhere

    This was another incident that happened at the same time I was up there, involving the Glen Turret Estate keeper, Ian McPhee, who had a habit of deliberately running down people he found riding mountain bikes on tracks on 'his' land. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me :wink:

    http://bubl.ac.uk/org/tacit/tac/tac24/andtheyc.htm

    P.s. As a regular around there are all the 'No bikes' signs still up on the Glen Artney to Callender route?[/quote]
    www.westlothianclarion.co.uk
  • montevideoguy
    montevideoguy Posts: 2,271
    pneumatic wrote:
    This in from the Scotsman report:

    We very much regret what has happened, but it is an example of the frustration felt when the local council does not understand the needs of local people."


    It all sounds a bit "league of Gentlemen" there.

    The fact that these people who come out in the media trying to justify it don't seem to mention the fact the race exists to raise money for Macmillan cancer support...though how can you justify your wish to stop a road being closed for 4 hours to raise quarter of a million for charity?

    Having experienced first hand the support Macmillan brings I can only hope few people let this moron/s win
    Formally known as Coatbridgeguy
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    aurelio wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:



    P.s. As a regular around there are all the 'No bikes' signs still up on the Glen Artney to Callender route?

    Ironically enough i was up Dumyat last week and came through Dumyat farm track to a farm on the right hand side of Dumyat on the way back down and got chased by a dog so same farm different problems. Only thing up there is signs last week warning of dire consequences if you disrupted the lambing which is fair enough i spose. As for Glen Artney no signs that ive seen very hard to follow the trail up there only ever done that route once and it was very boggy didnt like it too much
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • andy_from_embsay
    andy_from_embsay Posts: 343
    nwallace wrote:
    That's assuming they are right and the event can only take place with the closure only being non-cycle traffic.

    But if that was the case then all the cyclists would be under the jurisdiction of the road traffic act, which means inconsiderate and dangerous cycling in the realms of the road traffic act and not cycle racing is a criminal offence. e.g. Failing to keep left, undertaking, riding at a speed at which you can not stop within the distance you can see to be clear.

    And if a closure order was taken out to prevent all access for the purposes of carrying out road works, does that mean the workmen can be prosecuted for allowing themselves be pedestrians in the closure section?

    Anyhow, any chance of the intermediate route and start time more suitable for afternoon people?

    That was the advice posted on ACRE's website - that cyclists still had to adhere to the laws of the road - ie stick to the left, not go too fast etc.

    Buggered if I did...
  • el123
    el123 Posts: 1
    I am local to the area and live on the route effected by Etape Caledonia, I work in the tourism industry at a property also on the effected route. The reckless actions of some mindless fool(s) at the weekend make me embarrassed to belong to this area and these actions actually seem to have pushed the locals towards supporting the event and this year the majority of people in the area are trying to accept and embrace the event. However, there has been a lot of animosity towards this event and the way it is run, for various reasons, long before cyclists arrived.

    I do have to mention that the tourism business I work in suffered drastically due to the event, for example of Saturday we took over £750 (pre booked, customers nothing to do with Etape) and on Sunday we opened for the afternoon and only took £150.00, we also ask all our visitors where they are staying and how they heard about us and not one has even mentioned Etape. I would question the benefits to the area outwith Pitlochry. Our tourism business actually lost money - the complete opposite of what many reports are saying about the it boosting tourism in the area.

    I believe the best way forward is to consult with locals further and come to an agreement, it is very inconvenient for the roads to be closed for 4 hours (although people could just do as I did and get up early and get out of the area!), i think locals would welcome a reduction in the time the road is closed for the different sections. Or even for there to be clear benefits to the local people...

    Anyway, I feel very strongly regarding the tacks incident as it is nothing to do with the cyclists themselves and is a very dangerous thing to do, those responsible should have acted in a grown up manner and taken their issues up with the organisers of this event - although some members of the organising team have not been too friendly to locals who have embraced the event and offered help and equipment for free!

    I know 4 hours is not that long but it is inconvenient, but i guess atleast we don't live near Balado - not sure I could put up with the noise, smell and rubbish from T in the Park for weeks, good for the local community who do put up with it!
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    edited May 2009
    nwallace wrote:
    it seems Perth and Kinross have no jurisdiction for closing roads for Cycle Races, The Secretary of State retain that power. Lifted from a post from another site. Novaecosse I believe is an employee of one of the trunk road maintanance companies.
    novaecosse wrote:

    I don't believe PKC hold the necessary legal powers to close roads for the purposes of holding a cycle race. PKC invoke Section 16A of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 to close the roads for an event.
    Quote:
    (4) An order under this section—
    (c) may not be made in relation to any race or trial falling within subsection (1) of section 31 of that Act (regulation of cycle racing on public ways) unless the race or trial is authorised by or under regulations made under that section.

    Authorisation comes from the Secretary of State under sub-section 2.
    (Section 31 Road Traffic Act 1988)

    Every rider in the race has committed an offence under Section 31 of the Road Traffic Act.
    Complete nonsense!

    Section 31 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, first introduced in the Road Traffic Act 1956, gives chief constables powers to close roads to allow an 'authorised' cycle race to take place. Cycle races are 'authorised' under the Cycle Racing on the Highways Regulations 1960. Any event that meets the criteria laid out in that act are automatically deemed to be 'qualified'.

    Section 14 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, amended in 1991, allows a traffic authority - a county, a metropolitan district or the Secretary of State to make an order restricting or prohibiting the use of a road in certain circumstances. Those powers were designed to be used where, for example, maintenance is to take place or where there is an immediate danger - such as a bridge falling down.

    Section 1 of the Road Traffic Regulation (Special Events) Act 1994 inserted sections 16A, 16B and 16C into the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984:

    Section 16A of the 1984 Act enables traffic authorities to make orders temporarily restricting or prohibiting traffic in connection with the holding of sporting or social events or entertainment on roads (referred to as "relevant events"). Traffic authorities may restrict or prohibit temporarily the use of the road or any part of it by vehicles of any class or pedestrians to such extent or subject to such condition as they may consider necessary or expedient, for the purpose of:

    • facilitating the holding of a relevant event

    • enabling members of the public to watch a relevant event

    • reducing the disruption to traffic likely to be caused by such an event

    An order made under Section 16A can control the same things as a Traffic Management Order. The procedure for making an order is similar to that for making a TMO.

    Section 31 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 also empowers chief constables to close roads to allow authorised cycle races to take place

    (4) Without prejudice to any other powers exercisable in that behalf, the chief officer of police may give directions with respect to the movement of, or the route to be followed by, vehicular traffic during any period, being directions which it is necessary or expedient to give in relation to that period to prevent or mitigate—

    (a) congestion or obstruction of traffic, or

    (b) danger to or from traffic,

    in consequence of the holding of a race or trial of speed authorised by or under regulations under this section.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    Must be honest here...think I'll be giving the area in general a miss for a bit now....I'm just sickened to death by the whole scenario....and no doubt there will be hundreds of tacks still scattered everywhere for months and months to come....and tyres and tubes cost a fair bit now...I wonder how many others will be affected with this...Cars, Motorbikes etc?....

    Ive been reading about the Township Rivalry between Aberfeldy and Pitlochry...what a lot of ole crap aswell...how sad is all that nonsense!.....

    It has to be mentioned again that the Bealach events are wholely supported by the locals and all cyclists feel very welcome....so how does this sad lot have such an issue for 4 hours out of 365 days a year?....

    I know this sounds defeatest....but I wouldn't ride an event that has been sabotaged in this dispicable manner.....its just too dodgy and dangerous...theres too much hatred towards the event that the individuals responsible maybe put riders in even greater danger in future editions....a real shame but the threat must be recognised.

    I've been cycling Scotland for years now...and the only resentment I've personally seen are from young Neds in the Central Scotland belt....just the usual brainless mindset....if youve not got a Rangers or Celtic top on and are not guzzling Buckfast then your deemed an alien....(and also the odd occasion where a farmer starts to think the road to his fields are actually his own property)...but very similar attitudes are observed in most of the UK.....apart from that and in the more rural parts Ive not had one bit of hassle anywhere?.....and I've NEVER seen 'anti-english' slogans....in fact a lot of the North West is English?

    ACRE....numb for words about this lot?
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    edited May 2009
    Marzipan wrote:
    And what you all don't seem to realise, and to be honest, I think your being quite ignorant, is when you shut the roads, you shut ALL the roads. In big cities, its easier, as you've got a back road to drive, or you have a bus or a short walk. Its not like that here. And its busy all the time. Also, some of us don't have the luxury of having a bike. Theres so many tourists here every year, that I walk down the main street some days and don't recognise a single person. Also, some of us don't have the luxury of having a bike.
    el123 wrote:
    I am local to the area and live on the route effected by Etape Caledonia, I work in the tourism industry at a property also on the effected route. The reckless actions of some mindless fool(s) at the weekend make me embarrassed to belong to this area and these actions actually seem to have pushed the locals towards supporting the event and this year the majority of people in the area are trying to accept and embrace the event.

    However, there has been a lot of animosity towards this event and the way it is run, for various reasons, long before cyclists arrived.

    I do have to mention that the tourism business I work in suffered drastically due to the event, for example of Saturday we took over £750 (pre booked, customers nothing to do with Etape) and on Sunday we opened for the afternoon and only took £150.00, we also ask all our visitors where they are staying and how they heard about us and not one has even mentioned Etape. I would question the benefits to the area outwith Pitlochry. Our tourism business actually lost money - the complete opposite of what many reports are saying about the it boosting tourism in the area.

    ...it is very inconvenient for the roads to be closed for 4 hours..

    ... some members of the organising team have not been too friendly to locals who have embraced the event and offered help and equipment for free!
    Interesting how even those who say that they are supportive of the event also appear to resent the impact it has on them personally and have criticisms to make. All sorts of reminds me of the sort of comments you get from people who say things like 'I have nothing against black people of course, and racial attacks are despicable, but....'

    I am sure that some people are unreservedly supportive of the event, and the 'tack attackers' represent a small group of 'extremists', but it is clear that a lot of people up there are really not happy about having this event, at least as it is currently run. (And given the apathy of most people, getting over 500 names on a petition is not bad going, especially given the relatively small size of the cummunity).

    I also have a feeling that 'Marzipan' would probably contrast the 'luxury of having a bike' with the 'necessity of having a car'. After all these people weren't complaining about the event stopping them from going for a walk, were they? :wink:

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