Killer hill that I just can't get all the way up
Comments
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Thanks for the advice which I can see is all well meant, and some of which was helpful, too
I think just constant repetition until I get up is the real answer. There is no short cut to hard work being at the root of improvement. I was trying to avoid this answer forming in my mind, but I secretly knew all the time that it would be the right answer.
The problem with increasing the cog size is that this removes the resistance that is at the heart of muscle growth, and is a long-term cop out. It is also expensive, and given that this hill is the only one I struggle with in the district and is not on the way to anywhere, would seem a luxury.
For those who know the area, you'll be pleased to hear that after grinding to a halt, I decided to reclaim my manhood by bombing down Ide Hill and then up Toy's Hill which is another toughy. So it wasn't a complete failure.
For ScottyP - enjoy Baileys Hill. Straight, though. Alternatives in the area include Whickham Hill, which is the next hill to the west, or one-tree hill or Morley's hill which are the next two to the east.
I also enjoyed very much the zig-zag advice, but the poster was obviously unaware that the hill is an old one lane sunken carters track, with 5-10 foot sheer walls. Whatever else the answer was, Zig-unclip-turn bike around-reclip-zag is not the answer!0 -
Starwasp wrote:Thanks for the advice which I can see is all well meant, and some of which was helpful, too
I think just constant repetition until I get up is the real answer. There is no short cut to hard work being at the root of improvement. I was trying to avoid this answer forming in my mind, but I secretly knew all the time that it would be the right answer.
The problem with increasing the cog size is that this removes the resistance that is at the heart of muscle growth, and is a long-term cop out. It is also expensive, and given that this hill is the only one I struggle with in the district and is not on the way to anywhere, would seem a luxury.
For those who know the area, you'll be pleased to hear that after grinding to a halt, I decided to reclaim my manhood by bombing down Ide Hill and then up Toy's Hill which is another toughy. So it wasn't a complete failure.
For ScottyP - enjoy Baileys Hill. Straight, though. Alternatives in the area include Whickham Hill, which is the next hill to the west, or one-tree hill or Morley's hill which are the next two to the east.
I also enjoyed very much the zig-zag advice, but the poster was obviously unaware that the hill is an old one lane sunken carters track, with 5-10 foot sheer walls. Whatever else the answer was, Zig-unclip-turn bike around-reclip-zag is not the answer!
Do not worry about having to use smaller gears
It will get you up the hill and is no cop out. You will get stronger and fitter then your next goal will be to do it in second lowest gear until you eventually get up in the gear your trying now.
Some people may never get up certain hills.
I did the Tour of Cotswalds sportive 2 years ago and the vast majority of riders walked up one hill, I scrapped over mashing a 39 x 25 with my mate slipping on cleats next to me at same speed but I was not getting off
Oh and Bhima I was out of saddle on too big a gear and guess what? My breathing increased also and I certainly was not recovering
With all due respects, your advice on this thread is laughable I know it's a forum and people can say what they want but some people may be influenced
Oh another thing, the rate your breathing and hr goes up is nothing to do with being out of the saddle, it is all about intensity. I just did a hilly ride and climbed out of saddel up one climb entirely out of saddle and hr was not above 100 and breathing easy, the next hill, same length and slope, hr 145 breathing faster, reason? higher intensity effort, understand? 0 -
Well, perhaps you're all right, i'm not arguing with you, but it's worked for me on 3 seperate occasions. I just posted that because it worked for me, so I assumed it must work for everyone... :?
The first time I tried it, the intensity has stayed the same because the gears have gone up and the speed has stayed at 7mph exactly, my breathing immediately calmed down and my heart rate went down by about 8 BPM. It has worked all three times, although the figures were slightly higher/lower on the other occasions, obviously.
By the way, i'm no longer using a dodgy HRM.
When I recover from my current injury and get back on the bike, i'll try it again on my mate's indoor trainer with a powermeter just to make sure but i'm pretty sure i'll get the same result.0 -
Slow1972 wrote:If you're breathing heavily on a steep climb there's no way your lungs and heart are under pressure but your legs are okay
I'm not sure what you're saying here...? Are you implying that it's not possible to be out of breath with a ridiculous HR and have legs which still feel fresh?
...because it is! Happens to me all the time! As i've mentioned in another post though, it's been happening a lot recently when the weather's suddenly gone hot and, as a result, has started triggering my old asthma problems (slightly).0 -
Bhima wrote:Well, perhaps you're all right, i'm not arguing with you, but it's worked for me on 3 seperate occasions. I just posted that because it worked for me, so I assumed it must work for everyone... :?
The first time I tried it, the intensity has stayed the same because the gears have gone up and the speed has stayed at 7mph exactly, my breathing immediately calmed down and my heart rate went down by about 8 BPM. It has worked all three times, although the figures were slightly higher/lower on the other occasions, obviously.
By the way, i'm no longer using a dodgy HRM.
When I recover from my current injury and get back on the bike, i'll try it again on my mate's indoor trainer with a powermeter just to make sure but i'm pretty sure i'll get the same result.
So let me get this right, your now saying that your heart rate drops when you change to larger gear and get out of saddle to climb? If so that contradicts what you said in pevious post that your heart rate would go through the roof!!0 -
Bhima wrote:Slow1972 wrote:If you're breathing heavily on a steep climb there's no way your lungs and heart are under pressure but your legs are okay
I'm not sure what you're saying here...? Are you implying that it's not possible to be out of breath with a ridiculous HR and have legs which still feel fresh?
...because it is! Happens to me all the time! As i've mentioned in another post though, it's been happening a lot recently when the weather's suddenly gone hot and, as a result, has started triggering my old asthma problems (slightly).
That's a different matter as you are out of breath because of your asthma, not because of the effort you are putting in. You are also selectively quoting me out of context. I also said:Slow1972 wrote:as previous posters have said the HR and heavy breathing is a result of the effort you're having to put in. Its not like even on a 30x23 that he's "spinning" up the hill, with legs that are stress free, he'll probably still have a fairly low cadence with that gearing.
The OP was talking about climbing up a 16% hill so frankly, even with is lower gearing, and assuming he doesn't suffer from asthma or any other medical condition you can come up with, his HR and breathing is high because of the effort he puts in. Despite your bo***oks on other threads about your super high cadence up steep hills, if your are doing 6 or 7 mph up a 16% hill with a 30x23 you are doing 60-70 rpm cadence, chances are if he's struggling to get up his cadence and speed is going lower than that. And yes I'm saying that at those cadences on a steep hill with heavy breathing and high HR (and asthma or other breathing / heart problems aside) you are not going to have fresh legs. You will be going anaerobic and lactate will be building up in your muscles so even the super Bhima would feel it in his legs.
It may be different when super Bhima is spinning along at your 200 rpm on the flat or down hill, but that's what you get for using the wrong gear, but on a steep hill, yes, you will be feeling it in the legs. Frankly the more you post, the more absurd your theories and claims become and the more they are inconsistent with the last.
Do yourself a favour, I'm far far far from being an expert on cycling and I come on here to learn from other more experienced riders who have decent informed comments to make. But imho, you know far far less than even I do. You could do far worse than stopping pretending you know everything and read and understand the comments that the experienced posters make, learn from them and ask sensible questions so you develop a decent understanding of training / riding etc so that you have something useful which you can use to improve your own training and riding. At the moment your crackpot ideas and half-cocked notions defy belief. Which is why when you are put under a bit of scrutiny you usually end up admitting that you've over egged your story.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:On some hills it is physically impossible to sit down as the front wheel will come off floor.
What gradient triggers this reacton?
What are your techniques for uncleating if you run out of steam when standing?vintage newbie, spinning away0 -
gbs wrote:oldwelshman wrote:On some hills it is physically impossible to sit down as the front wheel will come off floor.
What gradient triggers this reacton?
What are your techniques for uncleating if you run out of steam when standing?
I first came across this going up the steep side of Watership Down, which I think was about 17%.0 -
gbs wrote:oldwelshman wrote:On some hills it is physically impossible to sit down as the front wheel will come off floor.
What gradient triggers this reacton?
What are your techniques for uncleating if you run out of steam when standing?
Well it is difficult to put an exact gradient on this, but looking at stats from garmin probably from about 15%.
It is easier to feel it actually because as you pull on the bars more due to gradient, you feel the bars begin to lift a bit, this is because you are sat back and when you pull on bars it pulls back aswell as up. You can try to pull less on the bars but you have to push more on the pedals to keep going
I have never actually got off on any climb to be honest so have no technique for unclipping.
On these really steep climbs I tend to grind at about 3mph to 4mph, I suppose if I got any slower I would end up in a track stand and pull left foot oot then if needed, same as getting off my track bike.
I make sure when I ride I have the correct gears to get up any hill I encounter.
I have got up hills up to 38% on 39 x 25 but on the other side, I have used a 36 x 25 on the flat into a strom wind (last years cymru gran fondo) and that was as hard as any climb I have done I have also been blown to a stanstill on same gear over the Beacons, that was worse due to blustry conditions, also been blown off the road going down the Bwlch, that was scary
When on steep gradients though you will get a feel for them, then when out of saddle need to get your positon right because to far forward and you loose traction on back wheel, too far back, front lifts.
I find best position personally is similar to track cyclists use for standing start, which is hips forward over cranks, arms almost straight over bars, which gives you best position for pulling on the bars as it is directly up and not pulling backwards like sitting down..
There is one poster on here (nameless lol ) who claims to only pull with feet when climbing out of saddle, and not push on pedals just for fun I tried this the other day, on a gentle slope, and even then I lost traction on back wheel. 0 -
By the wa, I thought I would mention, the 15% is where I tened to feel bike start to lift, I am sure some lighter guys won't feel it until about 20% or slightly higher, but with my style, or lack of for climbing I feel it a bit earlier
I have climbed over 20% sat but it feels like rowing and the bike feels unsteady so I generally get out of saddle about then 0 -
If the front end is lifting you need to sit/balance on the front of your saddle and lower your arms/upper body then you get really good balance between the wheels. Only problem is generally your backside will hurt after any decent length of time like this.
NB: I would expect a small increase in HR if you are out of the saddle because you are using more muscles. However, I don't see this as a problem as all it means is you are probably burning a bit more energy, no big deal just top it up after if necessary but in most cases it won't be.0 -
eh wrote:If the front end is lifting you need to sit/balance on the front of your saddle and lower your arms/upper body then you get really good balance between the wheels. Only problem is generally your backside will hurt after any decent length of time like this.
NB: I would expect a small increase in HR if you are out of the saddle because you are using more muscles. However, I don't see this as a problem as all it means is you are probably burning a bit more energy, no big deal just top it up after if necessary but in most cases it won't be.
I know where to sit and balance the bike, but this does not help on certain inclines, I suppose I could fit a 30 x 29 and sit to reduce need for pulling on the bars but the resulting speed would be slower than walking pace so no point.
On the climb I mentioned which hits 38% I have never seen anyone sit in the sadldle and get over it, even with very light climbers. I get over it out of saddle, either on 39 x 25 or 36 x 25/23 and at best 39 x 21 but that was when I was younger.0 -
I managed to get up Crawley Hill, in the Cotswolds this morning. This has beaten me a few times in the past, so I was pretty determined and pretty pleased. The sign at the bottom of the hill says 12% - but I don't believe it because I've cycled up steeper hills than that without having to stop, so why should this 12% have beaten me before? Halfway the Garmin said 16%, and bit later 20%, then a couple of times 25%. It did also go on auto pause several times when it assumed I'd stopped - I hadn't, I was just going very slow. When I got home and downloaded the data, Garmin Training Centre shows the steepest bit was just 15%. I don't believe it! Maybe the steepest bits were when the auto-pause function kicked in.
Anyway, I was fair knackered by the top. It was the toughest thing I've done on a bike so far. Was feeling dizzy and sick and totally out of breath, and lo and behold there was a mate of mine and his wife sat by their car, enjoying the view, ready for a chat. All I wanted to do was to lie down.
Still, nice to finally conquer the hill. I figure on losing a bit of weight and trying again soon. See if I can do it without feeling like I was about to die. Maybe next year I'll get a lighter bike, too, which might help. I reckon mine weighs about 30lb. I was using a 34 / 25 as my smallest gear.
Cheers,
Hop0 -
START IN YOUR LOWEST GEAR AND SPIN UNTIL YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE SADDLE AND THEN GRIND YOURSELF UP TO THE TOP CHANGING UP TO A HARDER GEAR (one you can turn at about 50-60 rpm) - we have ample 16 % and greater hills here in south Devon and that's usually the way I manage to haul my 86kg bulk up 'em!let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....0
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Agent57 wrote:My killer hill that I can't get up at the moment is the climb to Jubilee Tower (near Lancaster) from Quernmore; specifically the part between Quernmore and Brow Top Farm. I had a look at a map, and the gradient indicators are single chevrons, which means it's somewhere between 14% (1 in 7) and 20% (1 in 5). I managed to get up it 12 months ago, but that was on a mountain bike. At the moment I'm trying in my lowest gear (42/24) and failing dismally.
Last time I tried this hill, I stopped a couple of times, and walked part of it. The time before that, I just gave up and turned round part way up. Even a year ago when I used my mountain bike and its stupid low gears, I think I stopped for a rest/drink a couple of times.
I probably haven't got up that damn hill for a decade; and I was a good 2 or 3 stone lighter in those days.
I have a new bike, and new lowest gear of 38x25 (IIRC, standard 10-spd compact).
Armed with my new steed, I'm pleased to announce that I have slain my nemesis. Jubilee Tower, from bottom to top without stopping. I damn well used that lowest gear, but I don't care! Honking at a cadence of 30rpm? Yeah, but I don't care! I made it up! Without stopping; without walking. Have that, climb to Jubilee Tower. I've defeated you. You are powerless against me!
Max heart rate on the climb was 185bpm. I could feel the shortness of breath from exercise-induced asthma, but I pushed through it (I really should get an inhaler).
I WIN!
Oh, and the dash back down the way I came was fun. Got over 40mph (40.3, to be precise). It's a shame there are so many corners that I had to slow down a lot for.0 -
Does anyone do Claypits lane in Thrupp, the cotswolds not far from Stroud.
That is a killer :twisted:0
