so whats so bad about Lance
Comments
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gregssmirkingrevenge wrote:
Evans is so not worth 2.3 million a year!!
He's got Lotto's only win this season though...Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
gregssmirkingrevenge wrote:dennisn wrote:mikeh202 wrote:Red rag time. Not been into biking long enough to know the ins and outs of his 1st carreer but from what oi have seen he seems to be pretty damn great! So how come so many people hate him!
Don't you hate somebody? Someone that just rubs you the wrong way and you don't want to be near them? Someone who you feel has done something wrong? Or
illegal? Don't you hate some movie star just because, well, just because? And how about that guy on the "other" team that scored the winning goal and knocked "your" team out of the playoffs? Or a boss that you can't stand? Or someone who's voice just irritates the hell out of you? I hate Kevin Costner. Don't know why, just do. Oh, maybe I do know why, but never bothered to look into myself deep enough to find out. It doesn't take much
for people to say "hate that guy". Any little thing can do it. Sad part is that you start hating someone you don't even know, for whatever reason, and if you never get to know him
you will probably always hate him. But If you were to sit down with him and have a few brews you might come away with a different point of view. Guess I'll have to call Kevin
and invite him over to suck down a few beers
.
Dennis Noward
Dennis,
I've not been around these forums very long but i find it hilarious how you seem to consistently miss the point of the original poster! You seem to just offer tenuous and malformed analogies which don't really mean anything- all in the wistful guise of some profound and enlightened wisdom...
I don't mean to have a go but i do think there are real and tangible reasons people dislike Lance- some people think he's cheated his way to success, some people are furious that they feel he's "slipped through the net" and "got away with it" for so long (I'm refering to any alleged doping/medical preparations here), some people don't like his character, maybe his brutal domination frustrates people, he's a yank (this upsets the french), and so on...
So in summary i think there are lots of tangible reasons why people don't like LA and i feel your 'people just hate people sometimes' post is pretty irrelevant and unhelpful.
I don't think Paul Kimmage for example feels how he does about Armstrong just because, "he rubs him the wrong way".
To the original poster- you might want to have a wade though the other Lance doping threads.
So you've never disliked someone because they "just rubbed you the wrong way"?
I think you're wrong about Kimmage though. He doesn't hate LA, he loves him. He's
riding on LA's shirttails, writting books about him, and making money using LA's name.
LA is his lifeblood and he knows it.
As for me being irrelevant and unhelpful. I love irrelevance and I'm not trying to help
anyone. Anyone out there need help on this subject? Anyone? Let's hear from you.
Let's see, what else. Oh yeah, call Kevin and go get some beers.
One last thought or question. If you've somehow got it in your head that you really dislike someone, that you've never met, do you think that sitting down with this person and
talking to them would change your mind, even just a little, for the better?
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:gregssmirkingrevenge wrote:dennisn wrote:mikeh202 wrote:Red rag time. Not been into biking long enough to know the ins and outs of his 1st carreer but from what oi have seen he seems to be pretty damn great! So how come so many people hate him!
Don't you hate somebody? Someone that just rubs you the wrong way and you don't want to be near them? Someone who you feel has done something wrong? Or
illegal? Don't you hate some movie star just because, well, just because? And how about that guy on the "other" team that scored the winning goal and knocked "your" team out of the playoffs? Or a boss that you can't stand? Or someone who's voice just irritates the hell out of you? I hate Kevin Costner. Don't know why, just do. Oh, maybe I do know why, but never bothered to look into myself deep enough to find out. It doesn't take much
for people to say "hate that guy". Any little thing can do it. Sad part is that you start hating someone you don't even know, for whatever reason, and if you never get to know him
you will probably always hate him. But If you were to sit down with him and have a few brews you might come away with a different point of view. Guess I'll have to call Kevin
and invite him over to suck down a few beers .
Dennis Noward
Dennis,
I've not been around these forums very long but i find it hilarious how you seem to consistently miss the point of the original poster! You seem to just offer tenuous and malformed analogies which don't really mean anything- all in the wistful guise of some profound and enlightened wisdom...
I don't mean to have a go but i do think there are real and tangible reasons people dislike Lance- some people think he's cheated his way to success, some people are furious that they feel he's "slipped through the net" and "got away with it" for so long (I'm refering to any alleged doping/medical preparations here), some people don't like his character, maybe his brutal domination frustrates people, he's a yank (this upsets the french), and so on...
So in summary i think there are lots of tangible reasons why people don't like LA and i feel your 'people just hate people sometimes' post is pretty irrelevant and unhelpful.
I don't think Paul Kimmage for example feels how he does about Armstrong just because, "he rubs him the wrong way".
To the original poster- you might want to have a wade though the other Lance doping threads.
So you've never disliked someone because they "just rubbed you the wrong way"?
I think you're wrong about Kimmage though. He doesn't hate LA, he loves him. He's
riding on LA's shirttails, writting books about him, and making money using LA's name.
LA is his lifeblood and he knows it.
As for me being irrelevant and unhelpful. I love irrelevance and I'm not trying to help
anyone. Anyone out there need help on this subject? Anyone? Let's hear from you.
Let's see, what else. Oh yeah, call Kevin and go get some beers.
One last thought or question. If you've somehow got it in your head that you really dislike someone, that you've never met, do you think that sitting down with this person and
talking to them would change your mind, even just a little, for the better?
Dennis Noward
Now you see there you go missing the point again- I'm not disputing the fact we have the capacity to form negatively feeling towards someone purely based on.. well, nothing in particular. But rather i am suggesting that this is NOT the case with a majority of peoples attitudes to Armstrong. In my experience, those who see Lance as a negative influence to cycling have generally made that judgement based on an informed view of the subject area i.e. they are generally well read on professional cycling and are not basing their dislike on some triviality, gut feeling or being rubbed in the wrong way.
"I think you're wrong about Kimmage though. He doesn't hate LA, he loves him. He's riding on LA's shirttails, writting books about him, and making money using LA's name. LA is his lifeblood and he knows it."
This doesn't even make sense. What are you basing this on? Sounds like he might have rubbed you the wrong way?
With regards to your last 'thought or question'- I think it's (again) irrelevant because none of us are ever going to sit down and have a nice chat with Lance so its impossible to make a judgement call on this level. It IS however possible to build a picture of what kind of man he is by the deeds he has done and how he has behaved- however that might be presented to us (through his books, interviews, racing style, charity work, blood tests, lawsuits etc.)
I never said i dislike Lance anyway- I'm just trying to explain why some people might, other than rather ignorant attitude of "well just because i do.."
If you really do enjoy being irrelevant and unhelpful, then i doubt we're going to make much progress with this discussion- so in future would you suggest i ignore your utterly blinkered, partisan and nonsensical posts?0 -
[quote="rockmount"
Lance thinks watching golf is more exciting than Paris-Roubaix, that's why.
[/quote]
Can't argue with that ...[/quote]
Lets see if ive got this right.............do you really think the masters is more exciting than Paris Roubaix ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Deleted ....failed attempt at pedantry ... :oops:.. who said that, internet forum people ?0
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.. who said that, internet forum people ?0
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rockmount wrote:
No wonder you are a Lance fan :oops: ..........."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Sprint races are kind of annoying because you watch for four hours and then it is all decided in 1 min.
At least you get the minute of exceitement. Unlike watching eight blue-clad automatons pull Lance to the last 10km of the final climb, and then watching him ride off with a couple of select GC contenders hanging on for grim death. If that is cycling, I'll take the Golf please!0 -
There are any number of reasons to dislike Mr Armstrong:
1. He's rich
2. He's successful
3. He's American
4. His image is as a brash, rich, successful American
5. He's been out with Kate Hudson and Sheryl Crowe
6. Despite persistent accusations and numerous tests he's not tested positive for banned substances.
7. He is perceived by some to be a bully
8. He may not respect the sport of cycling in the European tradition by his lack of interest in one day races and his targetting of the Tour de France, etc...
However - Has anybody here met him? And if so, would you say you know him?
Until you've walked a mile in another man's shoes, it's probably better not to judge too harshly.
SteveHead Hands Heart Lungs Legs0 -
Because he's the Manchester United of cycling?Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34335188@N07/3336802663/0 -
dennisn wrote:So you've never disliked someone because they "just rubbed you the wrong way"?
I think you're wrong about Kimmage though. He doesn't hate LA, he loves him. He's
riding on LA's shirttails, writting books about him, and making money using LA's name.
LA is his lifeblood and he knows it.
To be fair, Kimmage makes his bread and butter as a sports journalist and it's only his crusade against doping that has brought him on the Armstrong warpath. I think if he'll have to option of removing the scourge of Armstrong and his cohorts or the financial rewards from book sales, he'll take the former. There is a quote out there from Kimmage himself where he mentions that his royalties from book sales are not substantial, which probably means he makes more from The Times.
As for Armstrong, I doubt anyone has hated him from day 1. It's just that there's been too many lose ends, inconsistencies and indiscretions that have built up over the years to give him any credibility. Less said the better...0 -
pottssteve wrote:There are any number of reasons to dislike Mr Armstrong:
3. He's American
quote]
There may be many reasons to dislike him but i dont think nationality should be one of them.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
pottssteve wrote:However - Has anybody here met him? And if so, would you say you know him?
Until you've walked a mile in another man's shoes, it's probably better not to judge too harshly.
A few people here have met him.
I've spoken to a couple of people who've met him and some came away thinking he was ok and a few others didn't like him much.
Would you trust a jury to judge someone if they knew them beforehand? I suspect no. Knowing someone can just skew the facts.
I don't like Lance because he thinks I'm a nutter and he lies way too much for my taste.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Moray,
I was making the point that some people dislike other people based on their nationality. That was not a personal point of view.
iain,
I know some people who know David Millar and they say he's a lovely chap. Unless I get the chance to meet him I'll have to base my opinion on second hand knowledge. Would I ask a jury to judge someone if they knew them beforehand? Why, what is Mr Armstrong in the dock for? And I hardly think that he thinks you're a nutter. I fact he probably doesn't think of you as much as you think of him, if in fact he thinks of you at all...Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs0 -
I would say that the biggest reason to dislike Pharmstrong is, like most Messianic figures, the total arses he attracts as disciples.0
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pottssteve wrote:And I hardly think that he thinks you're a nutter. I fact he probably doesn't think of you as much as you think of him, if in fact he thinks of you at all...
He said I'm not representative of the real world Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iain,
I'd take that as a complement! I live in the real world and it's not that great sometimes.
Good to see aurelio getting in on the act - has he said anything about you yet or are you even less of a thorn in his side than iain? Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs0 -
Robmanic1 wrote:Because he's the Manchester United of cycling?
I was thinking that myself just this morning. Only I would have used the New York
Yankees of baseball. Used to be the most hated team in the U.S.(with the exception of
New York City) back in their prime years 50's, 60's. They seemed to always win it all.
I loved them but was pretty much alone in this.
Take Ali. Loved watching him fight but here again he was hated by a goodly amount of people because they felt he was a loudmouth bragger. Once again I was on the winners
side but I seemed to be alone(or at least in the minority) in this view.
As for Lance, I like him. He's a winner. I have no problem with winners.
Manchester United? I even know that they are winners and hated for it.
Not sure who said it but it rings true "It ain't braggin' if you can do it".
But I'm ranting on......
Dennis Noward0 -
You are wrong in that Dennis. Neither Big Mig, Greg Le Monde, nor Liverpool for that matter, have ever raised hackles for being successful. Do people dislike Tiger Woods because he's the best? People do like to root for the underdog, granted, but Lance's widely reported behaviour has led many well informed cycling fans to dislike him. It would take a peculiar loser to dislike an entity simply for it's success. Mind you, it takes a bit of a loser to gain more than a fleeting pleasure from the success of a distant entity (unless you've been to the bookies).Dan0
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flattythehurdler wrote:You are wrong in that Dennis. Neither Big Mig, Greg Le Monde, nor Liverpool for that matter, have ever raised hackles for being successful. Do people dislike Tiger Woods because he's the best? People do like to root for the underdog, granted, but Lance's widely reported behaviour has led many well informed cycling fans to dislike him. It would take a peculiar loser to dislike an entity simply for it's success. Mind you, it takes a bit of a loser to gain more than a fleeting pleasure from the success of a distant entity (unless you've been to the bookies).
Don't mean to say that all winners are hated. Some are, some aren't. But let just the hint of "scandal" attach itself to any "celebrity" and watch the bad press go at them. Scandal
is much more interesting to read about than someones normal life. Let Tiger start getting some bad press and I'd be willing to bet a lot his fans would abandon him for the next big thing. In the cases of Ali & Lance I think they are / were mainly disliked for their attitudes.
Bragging doesn't sit well with people(even if you can do it). Winners who win constantly
tend to wear a bit thin on the public at large, and add a bit of "I know I'm good) attitude and
things go downhill quickly. Some people just don't have the personality for being in the limelight.
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:flattythehurdler wrote:You are wrong in that Dennis. Neither Big Mig, Greg Le Monde, nor Liverpool for that matter, have ever raised hackles for being successful. Do people dislike Tiger Woods because he's the best? People do like to root for the underdog, granted, but Lance's widely reported behaviour has led many well informed cycling fans to dislike him. It would take a peculiar loser to dislike an entity simply for it's success. Mind you, it takes a bit of a loser to gain more than a fleeting pleasure from the success of a distant entity (unless you've been to the bookies).
Don't mean to say that all winners are hated. Some are, some aren't. But let just the hint of "scandal" attach itself to any "celebrity" and watch the bad press go at them. Scandal
is much more interesting to read about than someones normal life. Let Tiger start getting some bad press and I'd be willing to bet a lot his fans would abandon him for the next big thing. In the cases of Ali & Lance I think they are / were mainly disliked for their attitudes.
Bragging doesn't sit well with people(even if you can do it). Winners who win constantly
tend to wear a bit thin on the public at large, and add a bit of "I know I'm good) attitude and
things go downhill quickly. Some people just don't have the personality for being in the limelight.
Dennis Noward
The "Schumacher effect" as it's sometimes knownPictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34335188@N07/3336802663/0 -
True enough.dennisn wrote:flattythehurdler wrote:You are wrong in that Dennis. Neither Big Mig, Greg Le Monde, nor Liverpool for that matter, have ever raised hackles for being successful. Do people dislike Tiger Woods because he's the best? People do like to root for the underdog, granted, but Lance's widely reported behaviour has led many well informed cycling fans to dislike him. It would take a peculiar loser to dislike an entity simply for it's success. Mind you, it takes a bit of a loser to gain more than a fleeting pleasure from the success of a distant entity (unless you've been to the bookies).
Don't mean to say that all winners are hated. Some are, some aren't. But let just the hint of "scandal" attach itself to any "celebrity" and watch the bad press go at them. Scandal
is much more interesting to read about than someones normal life. Let Tiger start getting some bad press and I'd be willing to bet a lot his fans would abandon him for the next big thing. In the cases of Ali & Lance I think they are / were mainly disliked for their attitudes.
Bragging doesn't sit well with people(even if you can do it). Winners who win constantly
tend to wear a bit thin on the public at large, and add a bit of "I know I'm good) attitude and
things go downhill quickly. Some people just don't have the personality for being in the limelight.
Dennis NowardDan0 -
the total arses he attracts as disciples.
The cancer survivors? Or just Americans in general?0 -
Clemson Cycling wrote:The cancer survivors? Or just Americans in general?
I don't think he meant either.
There's a cancer survivor on here who's no fan of LA. And quite a lot of 'mericans too.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
He is a great athlete in my opinion and there were many who were not so far behind him which, if the drug allegations are true, means that most of the riders in the TDF were doping.
Lets face it he has never tested positive and he was under the biggest scrutiny that anyone could be, so either he did it with some new undetectable drug or he is just an amazing athlete with a massive amount of will power and physical strength.
Also re his personality I dont see a problem. Most focused determined people are like him...0 -
The need to classify everyone you encounter is, I'm guessing a sign of some deeper emotional disturbance ... :roll:Blazing Saddles wrote:No wonder you are a Lance fan :oops: ............. who said that, internet forum people ?0 -
aurelio wrote:I would say that the biggest reason to dislike Pharmstrong is, like most Messianic figures, the total arses he attracts as disciples.
So you're saying he's a "messianic figure"? Somehow I doubt that there are too many people out there who look upon him like that(just you). I get around in cycling circles a bit and have never heard anything even close to that about him. Anyway, if what you say is true, you won't have to wait long to be rid of him. You know what they did to the last guy like that?
Dennis Noward0 -
pottssteve wrote:There are any number of reasons to dislike Mr Armstrong:
1. He's rich
2. He's successful
3. He's American
4. His image is as a brash, rich, successful American
5. He's been out with Kate Hudson and Sheryl Crowe
6. Despite persistent accusations and numerous tests he's not tested positive for banned substances.
7. He is perceived by some to be a bully
8. He may not respect the sport of cycling in the European tradition by his lack of interest in one day races and his targetting of the Tour de France, etc...
However - Has anybody here met him? And if so, would you say you know him?
Until you've walked a mile in another man's shoes, it's probably better not to judge too harshly.
Steve
well said Steve. You don't win 7 Tours de France without making enemies.0 -
aurelio wrote:I would say that the biggest reason to dislike Pharmstrong is, like most Messianic figures, the total arses he attracts as disciples.
Utter nonsense. A) He has never tested positive, and,
He won [7 times...AFTER cancer].
Whats not to admire. And why are people wrong to do so???0
