AFLD v Armstrong

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  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    Actually, it was invented by the english.

    I meant the internetz
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    A certain eccentric, tortured English genius might also have a shot at the invention of the computer too. And significantly helped to win that WW2 thing at the same time, despite what Hollywood's version (U571 was it?) might have you believe.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    Clemson Cycling wrote:
    The United States is the most conservative country in the developed world and has a PPP GDP per capita 29.6% higher than that of the UK
    It also has one of the highest levels of poverty in the developed world, at around 22% of the population. (The level in the UK is around 18%, France 6% and Sweden 2%).

    http://www.american-pictures.com/english/
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    Since we are talking figures, I find the USADA's a lot more interesting. :wink:
    From 2000-2008, we have the following:

    Marion Jones - 24 tests
    Maurice Greene - 27
    Jeremy Wariner - 30
    Apolo Ohno - One of the speekskaters who wiped out in the infamous 2002 OG short track crash - 47
    Jacqueline Berube - weightlifter - 81
    Michael Phelps - 89 - 36 of them in 2008!
    Cheryl Haworth - weightlifter - 108

    Lance isn't even the most tested Armstrong!
    Kristin was nabbed 64 times (24 times in 2008 and 21 times in 2006) with Lance only being nabbed a feeble 12 times.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    When he was active in Armstrong v 2.0 quite often other American cyclists were tested more by the USADA

    There was a great article on Velonews c 2005 which looked at all the tests across all the agencies. As I remember it, Lance didn't even make top 10 or 20 for 2004. It's disappeared and I cannae find it.

    Swimming in interesting because you can go to the FINA website and see how many times Phelps has been tested. So add that, the USADA and the Olympics last year and it's a huge number of tests.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • crown_jewel
    crown_jewel Posts: 545
    aurelio wrote:
    Clemson Cycling wrote:
    The United States is the most conservative country in the developed world and has a PPP GDP per capita 29.6% higher than that of the UK
    It also has one of the highest levels of poverty in the developed world, at around 22% of the population. (The level in the UK is around 18%, France 6% and Sweden 2%).

    http://www.american-pictures.com/english/

    True, and infant mortality numbers are terrible as well. The list goes on. But I do not agree that America is as conservative as is asserted above. Americans support Social Security (financial payments to retirees and the disabled), Medicare (health care for the elderly and disabled), and Medicaid (health care for the poor) in very large (65-70%) numbers. Much more needs to be done on reasonable access to health care for all, and the US does not have nearly the robust social support structure as most (all?) European countries do, which is one reason the current recession stings so much here. But it is simply not true that most Americans believe that the weakest among us must always be left to fend for themselves. We do not do nearly enough, in my opinion. But there are substantial programs in place that are widely popular, quite successful, and hardly conservative.
  • SunWuKong
    SunWuKong Posts: 364
    Take the politics to Cake Stop please.

    Blazing Saddles and Iain, I am sorry but quoting 'statistics' is all well and good BUT LA himself has said that he is the most tested athlete in the world, ever! As as niether of you are testers, ever been tested or work for USADA or any other ADA I don't see how you can talk on such issues.

    I'm with Saint Lance de Velo of Houston!
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    iainf72 wrote:
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    Actually, it was invented by the english.

    I meant the internetz

    The tinternet was invented by an englishman, just rolled out by the Americans.
    Dan
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    My country is better than yours! All this too and fro over nationalism is exactly what Armstrong wanted, to deflect from asking about the AFLD and to make it into a nationalistic dispute. History is full with scoundrels employing this tactic.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    Actually, it was invented by the english.

    I meant the internetz

    The tinternet was invented by an englishman, just rolled out by the Americans.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vint_Cerf

    It's all irrelevant but the point is that the US probably makes more contribution in terms of new things and cultural enhancements than Europe does at the moment.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    I always though it was Timothy Berners-Lee (always get him confused with Timothy Garton Ash, now he really didn't invent the internet) - ya learn something new every day.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    The internet existed before the interweb.

    Unless you've used Gopher you're a n00b!
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    I remember checking my e-mail on elm, using telnet to connect to the server, when I was a student in about 1994. That's probably about my first use of anything remotely internetty. My intelligence and productivity has been on the slide ever since...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    any more from the AFLD on Armstrong.?
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    Kléber wrote:
    My country is better than yours! All this too and fro over nationalism is exactly what Armstrong wanted, to deflect from asking about the AFLD and to make it into a nationalistic dispute. History is full with scoundrels employing this tactic.

    I'm a paddy. It's just that radio 4 did a piece the other day on some english geezer who (they said) invented the internet.
    Dan
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    markwalker wrote:
    any more from the AFLD on Armstrong.?
    No word expected until May.

    I am still not sure what Armstrong's gameplan is. I see two alternatives:

    1) He had no intention of riding the Tour - the Giro/Tour double was too much for him before and was certainly going to be too much now - so his plan is to cause as many problems for 'the French' as he can, so that they say he is not welcome at the Tour, allowing him to blame 'the French' for his non- participation.

    Failing that:

    2) He had no intention of riding the Tour - the Giro/Tour double was too much for him before and was certainly going to be too much now - so his plan is to cause as many problems for 'the French' as he can before announcing that he is not riding the Tour, blaming 'the French' for his non-participation.

    P.s. I guess that there is a third more remote possibility. He wants to ride the Tour and is hoping that, in the event of there being any 'embarrassing' test results during the Tour, the situation he has engineered regarding this dope test will allow him to rehash old his old conspiracy theories and to say 'See I told you they were out to get me'.
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    Yes Id thought similar things myself, its the perfect get out of jail free card.



    I hope he doesnt start, im sure well get a better race for it.
  • Birillo
    Birillo Posts: 417
    I am still not sure what Armstrong's gameplan is. I see two alternatives:

    Or perhaps he's decided that the hour record is a safer bet? It wouldn't put his TDF record at risk, there are far fewer variables, and the chances of success are more predictable. After all, he doesn't have to declare that he's going for the record until he's confident that he can break it.

    The only problem is that he's still 2 mph and 47.4 kilometers short of the record.
    http://www.velonews.com/article/87459
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    I see the CPA supports LA, describes it as persecution. Interesting...should we believe experts like Nicolo/Paganini or take a more measured response like CPA?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Dave_1 wrote:
    I see the CPA supports LA, describes it as persecution. Interesting...should we believe experts like Nicolo/Paganini or take a more measured response like CPA?

    Yes, Vasseur & the CPA are completely objective, aren't they :roll:
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Any union that doesn't protect its members is not worth joining, so the default position of the CPA will be to help the rider. For British readers, you wouldn't imagine Gordon Taylor not speaking in favour of a footballer.

    It doesn't help that Vasseur is an ex-team mate of Armstrong, nor that he suffered a long investigation by the AFLD, before being cleared but ultimately the CPA's views are worthless, this is about the AFLD, its rules and any representations made by the people at present at the test, ie the tester, Armstrong and Bruyneel.
  • GoLance
    GoLance Posts: 28
    It's L'Equipe for crying out loud! They hate Lance's guts! And I wouldn't blame him for being fed up with dope control visiting him every 5 frickin' seconds and as a result slamming the door in their face! As he said: 'You can do as many tests as you want, you won't find anything.' :x
    'You are not worth the chair you are sitting on with a statement like that...and I'm not sure I'll ever forgive you.'
    (Lance Armstrong)
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    GoLance wrote:
    It's L'Equipe for crying out loud! They hate Lance's guts! And I wouldn't blame him for being fed up with dope control visiting him every 5 frickin' seconds and as a result slamming the door in their face! As he said: 'You can do as many tests as you want, you won't find anything.' :x

    What's L'equipe got to do with it?

    The AFLD have the right to test athletes in France. Ivan Basso got tested by the Spanish authorities in Tenerife a few days ago. Lance knows the rules and he disobeyed them. That's the reality, you can try and mitigate them any way you like.

    Remember, this is a man who claims to be "most tested" which he isn't by a country mile.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    A side issue on this French conspiracy against the American good guys nonsense. Again, I pinched this from another "home".

    Some of you may remember reports of the French antidoping lab, the LNDD, being hacked. This happened in November 2006, not long after Flandis began his public relations campaign. Someone took info discovered in the lab hacking, inserted it messages with mangled French and badly forged e-mail headers to make it look like official lab correspondence. Then these fake e-mails were sent to various WADA labs and press members to make it look like the LNDD was up to no good.

    It turns out that the source of the fake e-mails was none other than Arnie Baker, Floyd's long time mentor and coach. Baker paid a French hacker 2,000 euros for the information. This same hacker was also found to have hacked into Greenpeace computers, supposedly for a French energy company. The exact relationship between the hacker and Baker is unclear but it just adds another layer to the bumbling, low level criminality of the Landis defense.
    http://www.lexpress.fr/outils/imprimer.asp?id=754205
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • GoLance
    GoLance Posts: 28
    iainf72 wrote:
    GoLance wrote:
    It's L'Equipe for crying out loud! They hate Lance's guts! And I wouldn't blame him for being fed up with dope control visiting him every 5 frickin' seconds and as a result slamming the door in their face! As he said: 'You can do as many tests as you want, you won't find anything.' :x

    What's L'equipe got to do with it?

    The AFLD have the right to test athletes in France. Ivan Basso got tested by the Spanish authorities in Tenerife a few days ago. Lance knows the rules and he disobeyed them. That's the reality, you can try and mitigate them any way you like.

    Remember, this is a man who claims to be "most tested" which he isn't by a country mile.

    L'Equipe published the story, so probably made it sound worse than it actually was in my opinion. But I can't say for sure, I haven't read it. I'm just a little fed up of him being picked on, but I can understand why people pick on him.
    'You are not worth the chair you are sitting on with a statement like that...and I'm not sure I'll ever forgive you.'
    (Lance Armstrong)
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Oh-oh Fanboy alert! :shock:

    Brave dude coming on here and expecting a measured response to things that having been discussed at length before - particularly if you're only come to share your 'opinions', others in particular won't agree to that!
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Fanboy or not, can we shortcut all the usual crap and have someone post all the necessary links to reading about this subject so that GoLance can have all the relevant information at his fingertips.
  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    Fanboy or not, can we shortcut all the usual crap and have someone post all the necessary links to reading about this subject so that GoLance can have all the relevant information at his fingertips.

    sure aurelio will take care of that.... :lol:
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    Arkibal wrote:
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    Fanboy or not, can we shortcut all the usual crap and have someone post all the necessary links to reading about this subject so that GoLance can have all the relevant information at his fingertips.
    sure aurelio will take care of that.... :lol:
    Going by what they have written, I feel that 'Go Lance' is much too much of a lost cause to be a candidate for 'deprogramming'...

    Of course, he (or she) may just be trolling....

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