Full Sus.

ExeterSimon

Can robots paint as well?? Clever sods!

Things have moved on. I envisaged some work experience kid with a tin and brush. Which was probably true on your original frame.

So what else can robots do these days?

Mancunianfightingcat

This thread's going well off topic now but, check out Asimo, Honda's cute robot


http://ww1.honda.co.uk/asimo/

Andy B

grantway wrote:

Sorry Andy_B But when I was up at Orange HQ Last year
They had a delivery of P7's and the G series already boxed
and ready to go mate.
I was only talking to Supersonic about frame making until an unknowlegable
fool jumps in and blows the whole thing apart
And I dont take prisoners

Keep digging an 'assumed' hole for yourself.

You just assumed that because the Taiwanese made frames were already built up in boxes ready for delivery that they were assembled in Taiwan

I know the facts. All Orange bikes are assembled in Halifax. (ooh a bit of poetry!)

Just because you've been to the factory doesn't mean that you know everything about Orange bikes.

SDK2007

Re: Handmade vs. Mass produced

I would much rather have a cheaper mass produced bike which is better spec'd and comes with a lifetime warranty over a handmade frame/bike which costs significantly more and with only a two year warranty.

Aston Martin used to hand craft all of their cars and they were about as reliable as a chocolate teapot.

ExeterSimon

I would much rather have a cheaper mass produced bike which is better spec'd and comes with a lifetime warranty over a handmade frame/bike which costs significantly more and with only a two year warranty.

Spot on. Not wanting to reignite or feed any 'my bike is better than yours' arguments but I know a couple of people who have Oranges and they really regret the purchase...and they blame this handmade thing some people seem to just get far too excited about.

I'm in the market for a British designed (and/or made) hardtail and no matter which shop I went into, no matter what forum I enquired in and not matter how many riders I spoke to I had vastly differing opinions on Orange bikes.

So I decided to go for a Whyte. And I don't care if it's made by oriental robots.

myopic

Is it just me or is Grantway posting in some kind of modern poetry? Think about it: its all in lines grouped in verses, but none of it rhymes and most of it doesn't mean anything. :roll:

ExeterSimon

I prefer Andy_B's poetry...

I know the facts. All Orange bikes are assembled in Halifax.

Mancunianfightingcat

What does assembled mean though?

Is that welding the tubes together or bolting on the cranks, forks, shifters etc?

As far as I know the only frames actually welded together in Halifax are the ones available with a choice of colour. (224, Alpine, Blood, 5, ST4 and P7)
I thought the others were made overseas (Crush, Evo, and the Gs)

bails87

Time for a freestyle jazz poetry face off between humans and robots to settle this once and for all then?!




EDIT: Oh yeah...bikes....you should go to try more out, see what you like before you start knocking them off your list.

XcOllie

lol reading through all the pages did make me laugh but thanks for the advice, i intend to try the orange out after the hot debate that it has caused!
cheers guys

SDK2007

Andy_B wrote:

I know the facts. All Orange bikes are assembled in Halifax. (ooh a bit of poetry!)
Just because you've been to the factory doesn't mean that you know everything about Orange bikes.

Mancunianfightingcat wrote:

What does assembled mean though?
I thought the others were made overseas (Crush, Evo, and the Gs)

Yup - the G2 and G3 hardtails are made outside the UK
Quote from the recently posted interview with Lester Noble of Orange Mountain Bikes

It did cross our minds to start producing bikes in the Far East but we decided against it for everything except our cheap G2 and G3 hardtails. All our suspension frames are made in Yorkshire and we will be bringing more of the hardtails in house too.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/i ... ikes-20341

SDK2007

I've just been checking out the Orange Website and interestingly the bikes they contract out to make in the Far East have the longest warranty of 4 years. The warranty for the handmade stuff in the UK is only two or even one year.

So much for their confidence in hand made frames

Every Orange frameset has a useful product life cycle. The length of that useful product life cycle will vary with the construction and materials

Source : http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/support/warranty.php

Anyway, enough Orange bike/handmade bashing for one day

Bikerbaboon

I do like supporting a local company. ( yep im in yorkshire) but at the same time Im a yorkshire man and tight as a nats chuff.
I got an On one as its a local firm that does all the work apart from makeing the frame, and they are selling them dirt cheap sub £200 for a cracking frame.
If orange could stay local and get a better spec on their bikes for the price I would be gunning for them big time. but as it stands to get the same kit on a bike im looking at over a grand more. now thas a mass of regergitated hot beverage or Rent and food or anything else you could spend the money.
Im not saying that i would not like to own an orange.... i would but they would need to be alot better value ( just looking at the spec) for my purse strings to be lossend by the offerings.

On the Robot Vs Human debate..... the Robot has got to win
Robot ninja ..... better than Ninja
Robot Pirate ...... better than Pirate
Robot Monkey......better than monkey. ( i so want one of them and it could even be priced like a 5 pro)

:P

grantway

Andy_B didnt assume anything thats what i had seen in made up boxes and a chap Graham in Warranties had told me too, whilst I was there.
Ive been there more than once which is not relevant.
And unfourtunatly a Human sprays the frames not that I have a problem
with that.
One thing I will say is that I do think they are In-efficent in the way they work
and could speed alot of the process up and reduce the cost
without reducing the quality of the product.

Mancunianfightingcat

I would think the warranty length is down to the sort of riding that the bikes will get rather than where they are made and also that there are pivots etc on the full sussers that will wear out, but I could be wrong!

Bikerbaboon

Mancunianfightingcat wrote:

I would think the warranty length is down to the sort of riding that the bikes will get rather than where they are made and also that there are pivots etc on the full sussers that will wear out, but I could be wrong!

pivots wear would not be coverd by a frame warranty. things like paint running away form the frame on sight of muddy water. or a crack in the welding. and all warrenties will be coverd by an expected use clause. If you have a light XC frame and hoon down a down hill track then some manufatures would not cover it if it broke. but if you had an AM bike you would expect it to live though this use so should be covered.

SDK2007

^^ Yup

All Mountain, Free Ride and Down Hill frames are (should be) built to withstand that style of riding; other manufacturers offer Lifetime warranties on their whole range of bikes, be it XC Race or DH race.

grantway

Unsure but I think Orange will sell you another frame a bit cheaper outside of your
bike warranty to replace your frame or replace it free of charge if fault lies with them.

zero303

I think some of the lifetime warranty stuff is offered purely because the bikes are so high volume and most barely get used anywhere near destruction point so they can just absorb the cost of the ones that do break. (I see endless Hard Rocks and Rock Hoppers being used for commuting only - they won't need that Life time warranty for sure!)

My mate broke a Rock Hopper chain stay on the Marin trail just riding the trail - it just happens.

Orange don't sell enough volume to risk offering a life-time warranty - not because they don't believe in the quality, they just don't shift enough units to play the percentages game like the big boys.

Bikes break, some more than others, it just happens.

Sorry to have a cheap dig but this thread's full of them all in good jest so I'm sure the owner will take it that way. I had to lol at the Enduro owner jumping in on the debate - I don't think anyone in their right mind would touch an Enduro without a life time warranty would they so I can see why you value yours so much!!

I'm pretty much fine with the 2 year warranty on my Orange as I expect to be less likely to need it... I don't believe for one second the Five is any better for being handbuilt mind, but anything built like that, hand made or machine made is unlikely to break unless there's a manufacturing fault - which would show up pretty dam quick, before two years anyway!

RE: man-made vs machine made - it's just an outrageously stiff bike that's bloody light for it's strength and has well sorted geometry - a machine could well have built it just as well.

In fact, if Steve Wade had actually fancied cashing in on the back of Peaty's golden years riding them and sold out when he had the chance, I'm sure they'd all be mass produced out east and be much cheaper and still just as good.

Nice to see everyone back on form btw, especially Grantway -

It's almost tempting to start a P7 thread of it's own just to pass the afternoon!

Daz555

Bikerbaboon wrote:

If you have a light XC frame and hoon down a down hill track then some manufatures would not cover it if it broke.

Of course, they have no idea how you broke it so this stipulation regarding reasonable use is largely irrelevant for warranty claims.

zero303

I supposes one other point - in the MBR test last year the Five really didn't look bad value for money in Pro spec. Secondly, the '09 frame only price has barely increased which shows how much of this is down to the exchange rate.

Unfortunately the little guys are screwed when it comes to speccing and that's where they've lost out on off the peg prices.

SDK2007

All vaild and fair points Zero

Bikerbaboon

frames do break at times and a 2 year warrenty will cover most breakages that realy should be down to manufacture and not to wear and tear. But a Life time warrenty is a Plus point for the people that can offer it.
Its a head and heart standoff over bikes. The head goes with a cheaper bike with better spec and a life time warrenty
Heart goes for the small brittish firm selling a UK made product. that cant match the price.

Its nice if you have the pockets to go with your heart.
If you dont your head wins out.

All that realy matters is you get out and have fun

If your grinning your winning. ( get me another poet 8) )

ClimbBoy

Am I the only one amused/ saddened by the irony of continuously posting about "tolerance" and then calling people cocks and fools?..

For the last word on who is the better welder, see the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_hIIDEQY3w

I'd take the skinhead Batman dude over the metal fella any day of the week. Pure human passion.

You'd like Christian Bale Mr Grantway - as has been heard recently, he has a similar approach on how to "win" arguments.

For shame...

toasty

Ooh bit of Nine Inch Nails snuck on that trailer, good call \o/

I do agree with what you said Zero, I think Specialized have such buynig power they can afford to cover the 1% or so that break. I've owned 3 now and never had to claim anything, infact it pained me selling the 2001 Enduro, all I had to do was break the thing and I'd be quids in. They also switched to a 5 year warranty for a while but swapped back to lifetime recently, it obviously sells enough bikes to justify it

I don't agree with the Enduro comment though, I think the newer ones are fantastic steeds!

grantway

You know what Toasty im 6 pints in and a Chicken Masala and your still Talking C ock
again
Where did you find the value of 1 % percent!

Listen for a while.
Some how we are on warrantys ? But you have to a least agree
about the enduro.
I would say well said and written Zero on that part of post, but dont know how we lead to that one.
But indeed But LOL

ClimbBoy loved the clip Fab stuff what ever your intensions was still put a smile
on my face LOL

I need my bed :twisted:

grantway

Funny we are now onto warrantys and how long they may go on for.
But I dont know how you carry over another thread.

But maybe take a look, or someone attach the the following thread onto here
and comment on this too, which is relevant to a degree
as me and Supersonic WAS talking about frame construction/strengths.

Commencal 6 Beast or not?
The chap says he has the Meta 5.5 which has a common Frame braking problem.
I do remember someone on here last year had tken his Meta 5 over to the Alps
and the frame snapped.

pdid

:roll: And he's off again :roll:

Regarding the Meta, a few have cracked on the shock mount welds, covered by the 2 year warranty. Not heard of any snapping TBH. Them humans must not have set the robots up properley

toasty

Where did you find the value of 1 % percent!

1% or so

Well I guessed, hence "or so", it's certainly not a high percentage, the point was the buying power of Specialized and how cheap they can replace the frames. As pdid mentioned, the Meta issue is welding breaking interestingly, more often than not though it's the white versions brittle paint cracking. You'll notice almost every cracked Meta is a white one, even in years when they have a variety of colours.

I didn't buy my Meta for a safe steed though, I'd have bought an Enduro if I wanted a decent warranty :P

Yes, the conversation is on warranties, which seems infinitely more relevant when buying a bike, ala the original conversation. Not robots as you decided it should be on.

What happened to adding .com on the end of insults by the way? That was the best bit of your random moans.

zero303

You know what Toasty im 6 pints in and a Chicken Masala

For me anyway it's usually time to stay off the internets at this point