Full Sus.
Comments
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grantway wrote:Pdid you have missed out that the most manufacture to have perfect or near 10
points for there bikes
Fact, a bike can`t be perfect or we`d all be riding one. I admit that I would have considererd a Five Pro when I bought my Meta if they hadn`t gone all stupid with the pricing.
I`m sure they are great bikes and you obviously love yours.
You don`t get bad bikes at this pricepoint it`s a matter of finding which is the best for you regardless of how "perfect" MBR or WMB think it is.0 -
PDID Thats Magazine ratings fool Do I have to hold your hand too LOL
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I accept hate is a nice word0 -
Yeah, don't write for mags ;-)
Wasn't the Meta jigged incorrectly?
I guess the arguments for machines breaking and wearing out is the exact opposite of what is said for humans - mistakes, tiredness, and consistency. Factors, but a slightly different point I think.
Of course it is not feasible for a small company to get a robot production line lol, and I agree that the welders will be very well skilled. Merida, Giant and the rest of course have millions pounds of investment to run and maintain these things, with sheer volume of frames sold that makes it work for them. And if it does go wrong, they can just throw it away which is quite painful for small companies. I've seen Cannodales test facilities and racks and racks of faulty frames! But the end finished product, when done right, is usually perfect.
I do like hand built stuff. Sometimes. But with bikes, and the cost involved (and my skintness) I go for the mass produced stuff and it works for me, and the quailty is superb.
I have a handbuilt 1980s british made amp for my hifi. Does it sound any better than the robot production line stuff from China? Probably not...0 -
Regarding the Britsh Amp We in the Uk make most of the best amps in the world
at top end and is the envy of Japan/China and are mostley working with UK
guys all the time
Try a Cyrus Amp, purfect amp
Regarding the Meta No the Company said they couldnt do it ?
and Meta forced them to sort it out ASAP.
Dont know what they used very easy to pick up a piece of metal and weld it in any direction, just ask the guys at Orange
Regarding throw it away is painful for anysize of company? is that why at the end of the year Specalized flog the bike nearly half price?
What is the true value in such a bike.
Reason behind my bike was that I can ride it way past the design limit it is for
But was not an arguement or point just the Robots issue.0 -
Hehe, probably true of Spesh! Recycled I guess, must a fivers worth of alu there.
Well, you'll be glad to know my Amp(s) are:
Cyrus 1 mk2
Cyrus 2 (last addition) with PSX PSU.
Has a wobbly volume knob that I need to fix though.
(split into crudcatcher section)0 -
grantway wrote:PDID Thats Magazine ratings fool Do I have to hold your hand too LOL
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I accept hate is a nice word
Errrrr no thanks, I'm a big boy and can make my own mind up 0 -
grantway wrote:PDID Thats Magazine ratings fool Do I have to hold your hand too LOL
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I accept hate is a nice word
What's wrong with that? Only 1 post ago you were quoting magazines as gospel. The angles aren't always 100% as quoted on the majority of brands, just like the weights are bollocks, the frames are consistant though.
Robots vary, just like humans. Some companies use cheaper machinery with lower tolerance zones. If I saw a bad hand weld would that mean all hand welding was equally bad quality? On the other hand some use robots with far higher tolerance than humans can offer.Regarding throw it away is painful for anysize of company? is that why at the end of the year Specalized flog the bike nearly half price?
Well they sell probably 100x what Orange do over here, if they have 10% left over at the end of the year they can afford to sell with a small loss. Orange make their hardtail frames in Taiwan and still don't sell them cheaper, there's obviously no link there.0 -
From Grantway:
"Computer rised machines"
As a matter of interest, are we talking T100's or T1000's here, as while the older model won in the end, the liquid metal guy was well cooler and looked like he put more heart into his welding...0 -
this has been my fav orange thread ever.
ps, orange bikes are rubbish, c'mon!!0 -
I heard they use work experience staff for the Five line
They weld using both hands and feet to double the amount of crap frames they can hack out! 0 -
Toasty you Plank-Plum what ever
If you care to look above the line you have high lighted it says
Pdid had missed out that Orange bikes have the most near perfect 10's in there range.
And yes that is Magazine ratings mmmmm again Fool
Also Robots like Humans LOLOLOL where did you get that from Plank?
Just to educate you in the Metal industry the tolerance you have to work to
and only accepted by Human and Robot is down to 1 thousand of a Inch
Or 1 thousand of a millimetre
Anything else is thrown away or used for something smaller they can make out of it.
The incrementation is set by Britsh Standard and used through out the world
What the Fxxx brain fool
Also proves a point that I had made earlier in this thread about the quality
of computer /Robots.
Would like to hear what Supersonic says about what you have
said Has he thinks its Meka on the Merida carpet.
Now all of a sudden they make great tolerances has a Human ???
A Human works on the same tolerances has a Robot.
IE a tolerance of 1 thousand of an inch or 1 thousand of a millimetre.
Probably a pissed programer called Toasty
Toasty Orange only had three bikes made in Tiawan and soon are to only
have the G2 and G3 made there and the other will return back to England.
I wonder why?
Maybe its Toastys Tolerances0 -
grantway, whilst i enjoy your posts on these subjects, is there any chance you could learn a bit about grammar and english in general, atleast preview your posts as they never seem to read quite true, i would have thought an engineering expert would have to have some kind of language skills,
if you wanna call me a plank, you can get my adress from pat mcguken and come and do it in person.0 -
Love and kisses SheepSteeth But I dont think I ever have :shock:
Sorry mate have to point out Adress is Address :idea:0 -
Your posts nicely highlight how people working in the metal industry are just as vulnerable to human error as everyone else. Errr, because you made a Go Kart at school and you weld furniture or something. Sorry, I might have missed something in your post, I gave up trying to read it after the second sentence (I think it was the second).
I do know that Orange warranty their Five frames for a whopping 2 years. Doesn't show much confidence does it? My old 2001 Enduro had a lifetime warranty on the frame. I know most other Specialized frames have either a 5 year warranty or a lifetime one. Must be risky business, I've heard those robot made frames are a bit shakey!Toasty Orange only had three bikes made in Tiawan and soon are to only
have the G2 and G3 made there and the other will return back to England.
I wonder why?
Because people will pay over the odds for UK made stuff? It's about their only unique selling point they have left. Why do you think people buy Hope brakes for silly amounts?Also Robots like Humans LOLOLOL where did you get that from Plank?
Terminator 2, they were great friends. What are you trying to quote me on there?0 -
im happy with that
you have never called me a plank but after the number of insults you have been throwing out i was expecting something from your rebuttal.
back on topic:
tolerances are different for different processes, also a thousandth of an inch and a thousandth or a millimetre are two very different values. i would be surprised to find that a hand welded item is accurate to 1/1000th of a millimetre, ive used milling machines and lathes which would struggle to make that accuracy (and im a very competent machine operator)
humans are more adaptable, no question. a machine needs a human to overcome a problem which arises but a decent machine setter should notice these problems in the design phase and solve them before production begins. but i refuse to believe that a human can make 100 frames a identically as a robot can.0 -
Toasty If you had bothered, the answer to a Go-Cart, I was asked if I had any metal work experiance.
And yes I do through school and in the industry from design to manufacture.
But obviously not yourself in any shape or form, due to your acceptance of
tolerances or any understanding of what has been written through this thread.
Vulnerable? Please explain no one is Vulnerable why use Vulnerable
There is no emotion,exposed attack,and no wound?
I accept Hate is a nice word0 -
grantway wrote:Vulnerable? Please explain no one is Vulnerable why use Vulnerable
There is no emotion,exposed attack,and no wound?
If that's the biggest hole you can pick in my post I think I'm onto a bit of a winner here. You post a random block of text then pick out my use of one word?Toasty If you had bothered, the answer to a Go-Cart, I was asked if I had any metal work experiance.
I know, this is exactly my point. You infinite wisdom comes from the fact you welded a Go-Cart at school? You make furniture right? Where's the link here? You can call it "manufacture" if you like, I could probably say I work with cutting edge CAD technology, it's a bit tenuous though.0 -
Sheepstaeth you have to have proper measuring tools such as Micrometre or verneer
gauges Not just a tape measure.
Its what I used and many others before me.
How the hell did Man/Woman make anything before Computers/Robots came along.!
Such skills take time to develope in what we call apprenticeships
and if you dont meet the required standard then your out.
Just like any other job that needs/require a high level of skill.
To make time over again frames parts etc you only need correct jigs
and set out and then weld, just like a Robot.
Its not rocket science, ethier you have the correct skills or not
Has such all handmade Frame makers have, you just have to stand and
admire what skills these people have.
But seems many want to Moke or Ridicule.0 -
yeah, i know how to measure thanks. you might want to include gage blocks and dti's as accurate measuring methods too. i also know what apprenticeships are.
i also know exactly what is required to work in a field which requires excellence, i'dl like to see you do my job.
you either have the required skills or not....................0 -
grantway wrote:How the hell did Man/Woman make anything before Computers/Robots came along.!
Well, I think you'll recall they made complicated things a lot bigger and cruder. Using the Hope comparison again, they sell from the UK, charge lots of money and use lots of computers for the CNC machined parts. Buying UK made parts costs more, regardless of how it's constructed.Has such all handmade Frame makers have, you just have to stand and
admire what skills these people have.
I love hand built frames, don't get me wrong
There's some beautiful frames out there, each one crafted with a load of passion, look at Merlins and the like. This isn't point in conversation though is it. I've never heard of anyone (bar yourself) buying a Merlin or similar because they don't trust robotic welding machines. 0 -
Toasty Holes Nope
I have already found many of them in what you have written.
You talk of tolerances and now say you work in CAD Tech you must be Gold
LOL
Maybe you have missed out that I have worked with software programers and machine development for makers of robotic/machinery over 8 years.
For you to learn and play with and Fxxx up with your wide acceptable tolerances
Please dont P ISS Down my back and try and tell me its raining.
Is it April the 1st every day of your life ?
What do you really do apart from stacking shelves and holding something tight
in your right hand and holding your mums hand in the other.0 -
Toasty wrote:You can call it "manufacture" if you like, I could probably say I work with cutting edge CAD technology, it's a bit tenuous though.grantway wrote:You talk of tolerances and now say you work in CAD Tech
Do you literally think thats what I said? Look up tenuous in the dictionary :?
At the mo I work making this if you must know. Mainly working on the tools. No, it's not bike related, much like furniture isn't.0 -
Not at any point in this thread or any other did I say, that I did not trust Robotic or
computerised machinery
And if my chosen horse was roboticaly made then so be it
You simply need to read what me and Supersonic was talking about
apart from jumping in.0 -
grantway wrote:its true youth dont have a clue take the PC away and they cant get over a problem or tie there laces Like a load of lost sheep looking for the top dog.
i think i count as youth (14 years old) but seeing as i DO know how to do stuff, i can fix most things with my bike, seeing as i have been working in a bikeshop, i think its wrong of you with all of your "knowledge" to say anyone cant do anything (except for you of course) i wish people would spend more time riding a bike and less time banging on about traditional values and idealisms.robots can weld things so neatly and reliably its unbelievable. image a mobile phone being made by hand, imagine the size of the welds, how inconistantly good and expensive that phone would be. now, that is £50-£300, imagine all those human weaknesses (that robots do not have) being spilled out onto someones £2000 bike. get my point now?0 -
is there any chance you could learn a bit about grammar and english in general, atleast preview your posts as they never seem to read quite true, i would have thought an engineering expert would have to have some kind of language skills,
+1.Bikes are OK, I guess... :-)
2008 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp.
2013 Trek 1.2
1982 Holdsworth Elan.0 -
grantway wrote:I have worked and designed in the metal industustry yes and made Go-Karts
when at school
A hand weld is far stronger
but robots have advanced in the last 70 years since you were at school....0 -
grantway wrote:You simply need to read what me and Supersonic was talking about
apart from jumping in.
Ah, the conversation is irrelevant in these threads to be honest. I could say "Orange bikes are made of bacon" or something and you'll collapse into an emotional mess. Look at the thread at the top of this page, what happened?! :shock: The was following a blatently silly post, I didn't think you'd bite to be honest. I do enjoy these threads.
Besides, I'm entitled to my own opinion. I've got no reason or evidence of why welding would be higher quality when it's done by hand. You're quoting it as a reason why Orange frames are more expensive, they would be regardless of the welding technique though. Hence the comparison to Hope.
Of course humans can make mistakes, what about the old P7 with the dodgy dropout that was reviewed? We're hardly talking 1000ths of a mm here are we, he put the wrong bolt in.
I've never had a weld break on me in all my days of mountain biking. Yet suddenly having a frame hand welded, at the cost of 50% more than other manufacturers is a shrewd investment? A frame with a shorter warranty at that. I understand the want for flashy bikes, especially boutique UK/US brands. You don't need to try and hold up a weak argument that your money was well spent.0 -
Again I have helped and develop Robotic and computerised machinery
over a period of 8 years
With software writers and Robitic and computerised machinery
Which are used in Furniture making and engineering which I have high lighted
So Again you have no idea and come in with worthless comments.
Total Knob.com0 -
Regarding the P7 Orange had pointed out that the wrong drop out was put
on.
I believe this was even in the bike test, was certainly high lighted
on there web site.
Im not intrested in Diversing here Im staying on what this topic/thread
is all about I have no intrest in other brands at this point, has yes very
happy with my chosen ride.
I have no intrest in Flashy bike and only happy with what I have chosen
and was able to afford
Stay with the topic of the thread that myself and Sonic have added
and you just may well learn something.0
