Filtering

redddraggon

I'm a bit confused.....

I've been told filtering is dangerous - especially going up the right side of traffic. The guy who told me that it's dangerous is a fellow roadie, and has completed advanced motorcycle training (CBT?).

The thing is...he goes up the left hand side of stationary traffic, which I feel is inherently more dangerous - he said that going up the right hand side of traffic drivers might not look especially when turning right (???) I have always though that drivers would not expect cyclists/other vehicles to sneak up their left hand side and so are more likely to look right whether or not they are specifically looking for cyclists.

To be honest I don't do much filtering and riding in heavyish traffic - the only time I really do it is on Sunday afternoons on the way back from the club run - through Didsbury when there is loads of stationary traffic and I don't fancy queuing while I'm wet and tired after a long club run and I want to get home.....

Any thought's on the right way of filtering?

whyamihere

Filter right. Always always ALWAYS filter right.

Filtering isn't inherently dangerous as long as you're careful. Drop your speed right down, cover the brakes, be prepared to stop at a moment's notice, look around a lot. If in doubt, stop.

don_don

Slowly and carefully!

As for which side is more dangerous, it depends.. However, I generally think on the right is safer, because that is where drivers expect overtaking to occur.

If the oncoming traffic is moving quickly and the road narrow, then I usually refrain until I can see a gap.

Not sure whether the motor-cycle comparison is a good one. I'm not a motor-cyclist but I cannot imagine any instructor advising filtering on the left on one.

janm399

Before I start filtering, I follow these simple rules:
1. Is the traffic completely stopped?
2. Will I gain anything by filtering?
3. Is there enough space on the right?

If so, filter on the right, but slowly and always look for place to filter back when the traffic starts moving again.

I will only filter on the left if there is *a lot* of space and if there is very clear advantage of doing so.

For example, if there are only three cars that have just passed me stopped at a red light, I will not filter, because they'll have to overtake me again and filtering would only give me another 15 meters' advantage -- hardly worth it.
If there is a long queue of cars that is not moving at all, I will filter on the right; finally, if there is a wide and clear (bike) lane on the left, I might filter on the left.

roger_merriman

the problem with filtering is that your passing though cars/vans etc blind spots some of which may be quite large indeed. given a choice i always go for right as it's the 'proper' way to overtake and it's where motorbikes which are more expected.

but some times left is better has more space etc.

the key really is to take it easy so if someone does start moving over etc you have time to react. too many filter at warp 9. ie the difference in speed is the key, filtering at 25 is fine if the cars are doing 20ish say but iffy at 5mph.

biondino

whyamihere wrote:

Filter right. Always always ALWAYS filter right.

If I say you're wrong three times, will this have as powerful an effect?

If you filter left and get left hooked, you end up sprawled on the kerb. Ouch. If you filter right and get right hooked, you end up splatted by oncoming traffic. RIP.

Not that I don't filter right when I believe it's safer to do so, but to say it's the correct course of action is lunacy. Not only do you have drivers turning right; but you have drivers moving rightwards to go round parked cars (and bikes) or to overtake. Even a near miss can scare the cyclist into taking eveasive action that gets them hit.

I can't emphasise my (personal, subjective) feelings on this enough. For one thing, drivers expect bikes to be inside them. For another thing, the right hand side is for faster moving traffic. Which you may well be when you're filtering but as soon as the cars get up to speed, suddenly you're not, they're moving fast, you're caught between two lanes of dangerous traffic and if anything bad happens you're screwed.

Filtering on the left, you avoid lorries and buses, and you keep a careful eye out for peds. If you do that, it's much safer and you're far less likely to get killed if you do have an accident.

whyamihere

biondino wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

Filter right. Always always ALWAYS filter right.

If I say you're wrong three times, will this have as powerful an effect?

If you filter left and get left hooked, you end up sprawled on the kerb. Ouch. If you filter right and get right hooked, you end up splatted by oncoming traffic. RIP.

If you're filtering sensibly, you won't get right hooked. Coming up to a junction, I stop or slow to about 4mph, and until I've made eye contact with anyone who might potentially be turning, I won't move past them. Wherever you are, if you don't take precautions, you're dead. Also, on the right is where people expect motorbikes to be filtering. If I appear as a motorbike (I'm doing the same speed as them when filtering) then it's a good thing.

Rich158

I've only had problems when filtering on the left, when someone walked out from behind a stationary van into my path. When you filter on the right you're far more visible to stationary traffic, oncoming traffic and pedestrians, and as a general rule everybody expects the moving traffic ie motorbikes and bikes to be travelling up the outside of stationary traffic. The only proviso is that you do have to be careful of traffic turning right, or pulling out of sideturning accross your path.

lost_in_thought

I don't worry about the right or wrong side to filter, I just go wherever I feel safer, and that's almost always wherever there's more space.

On my commute that's usually on the left, so that's where I filter, or occasionally between 2 lanes.

Don't see the argument for always filtering on the right, for starters as biondino says there's 2 streams of traffic to worry about. In fact, biondino's pretty efficiently summed up most of the reasons why I don't agree with you, whyamihere and other committed right-hand side filterers...

whyamihere

To be honest, if the road's not wide enough for you to be filtering in between the two lanes of traffic, it's not really wide enough for you to be filtering at all...

roger_merriman

whyamihere wrote:

To be honest, if the road's not wide enough for you to be filtering in between the two lanes of traffic, it's not really wide enough for you to be filtering at all...

well quite, if i'm filtering on the right i tend to be fairly far over as the oncoming cars can see me while the left traffic more than likely can't.

but again it depends a lot on the roads

lost_in_thought

whyamihere wrote:

To be honest, if the road's not wide enough for you to be filtering in between the two lanes of traffic, it's not really wide enough for you to be filtering at all...

On the roads I usually ride on, the cars keep to the right because of bus lanes starting and stopping, vans pulled over on the left, bus stops etc. Apart from these very minor interruptions that means there's maybe a car's width of space to the left of the flow/queue of traffic, and about 1m to the right.

Where should I go? The right? I don't think so.

whyamihere

Er, if you have a gap the width of a lane, then it's not really filtering... I go down bus lanes etc, and there's on bit which is like you say, cars all use the right hand lane because of occasional blockages in the left lane, so I use the left lane. What I'm talking about is singly lane roads, which are narrower than the ones you're describing.

Clever Pun

It depends on the state of the traffic ahead of you... I now tend to use the right as people seem to think queuing in the gutter is ok which makes progression difficult.

With trucks and buses you just pull in to let them through as they have right of way (before you get into them being bigger) plus the on coming traffic can see you clearly as they would a motorcycle.

I can't beleive for a second that a motorcyclist trainer ever suggested the lhs to filter ever
FYI CBT is compulsory basic training,a one day course kids use to get on mopeds etc

If you're filtering turn paranoia up to max and proceed carefully

biondino

whyamihere wrote:

biondino wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

Filter right. Always always ALWAYS filter right.

If I say you're wrong three times, will this have as powerful an effect?

If you filter left and get left hooked, you end up sprawled on the kerb. Ouch. If you filter right and get right hooked, you end up splatted by oncoming traffic. RIP.

If you're filtering sensibly, you won't get right hooked. Coming up to a junction, I stop or slow to about 4mph, and until I've made eye contact with anyone who might potentially be turning, I won't move past them. Wherever you are, if you don't take precautions, you're dead. Also, on the right is where people expect motorbikes to be filtering. If I appear as a motorbike (I'm doing the same speed as them when filtering) then it's a good thing.

Bullshit. I had two close escapes in 100 yards last week when filtering on the right, both with me cycling flawlessly. But you know, I don't care - all it takes is one driver being a d!ck once and I'm roadkill. F*ck that.

And you're not on a motorbike! Can you not tell the difference? You're on a slow-moving, slow-accelerating piece of metal, and as soon as cars are up to normal, ambient speed you're left for dead. Possibly literally.

Bikes go on the left. That's how motorists think. You're kidding yourself if you think differently, and you're putting yourself in THE most dangerous position to find out that you're wrong.

Sewinman

I have noticed that since they opened the bus lanes to motorbikes they have begun filtering/over taking at breakneck speeds in the bus lane. I think this pretty dangerous as the bus lanes often have pot holes that cyclists swerve to avoid. Probably a matter of time before a motorcyclist hits a swerving cyclist IMHO.

Clever Pun

OK left vs right

coming up to a cross roads yellow hatched jct

cars in all directions if you go left or right of the car you're overtaking it should see you at the same time give or take?

the car coming from the left is more likely to see you if you're on the left

the car from straight ahead going straigh or cutting across you will more likely see you if you're on the right.

the car from the right will more likely see you if you're on the right

2-1 on the right.... does that make sense?

nasahapley

I've only recently started commuting on the bike (to central Leeds) so have had to learn about cycling in heavy traffic pretty quickly. So far my approach has been fairly simple: keep a check on what's going on behind me as well as in front, keep an eye out for side junctions and most importantly, assume everyone else on the road is a complete f***ing idiot. Seems to work. Whether this means I'll be filtering on the left or right depends on many different factors; you can't really say it's always better to do one or the other, surely?

Christophe3967

Its common sense and there's no hard and fast rule that dictates which side if any you should be filtering. I am very wary of pedestrians stepping out from behind buses, and never put myself on the nearside of anything - especially large vehicles - unless I have most, or all, the lane, or I'm 100% sure that they aren't moving and won't start to do so until I'm clear.

Filtering on the right is OK but I would only do so if the traffic is stationary or moving very slowly and there is no oncoming traffic. I fully accept the premise that some cars don't expect to see bikes on their right, so you need to be totally tuned in to whats hapening all around you.

My feeling is that riding in London is generally easier & safer because of the numbers of bikes out there; drivers are more used to us and 99.99% have no desire to knock you off - if only because they know the aggro it would create.

MrChuck

Basically what biondino, Christophe3967 and nasahapley said. I basically assess each situation on it's own merits, ride defensively, and never put myself into a situation where I can suddenly find myself hung out to dry (and there are many ways that can happen).

Christophe3967

Clever Pun wrote:

OK left vs right

coming up to a cross roads yellow hatched jct

cars in all directions if you go left or right of the car you're overtaking it should see you at the same time give or take?

the car coming from the left is more likely to see you if you're on the left

the car from straight ahead going straigh or cutting across you will more likely see you if you're on the right.

the car from the right will more likely see you if you're on the right

2-1 on the right.... does that make sense?

Absolutely.

graeme_s-2

biondino wrote:

Bullshit. I had two close escapes in 100 yards last week when filtering on the right, both with me cycling flawlessly. But you know, I don't care - all it takes is one driver being a d!ck once and I'm roadkill. F*ck that.

And you're not on a motorbike! Can you not tell the difference? You're on a slow-moving, slow-accelerating piece of metal, and as soon as cars are up to normal, ambient speed you're left for dead. Possibly literally.

Bikes go on the left. That's how motorists think. You're kidding yourself if you think differently, and you're putting yourself in THE most dangerous position to find out that you're wrong.

I assess each situation on its own merits with regards to filtering, but the result of that is that I'll usually filter on the right of stationary or slow moving traffic. I've been doing this on my commute for a couple of years now and have never found myself stuck on the right when a line of traffic starts moving.

A queue doesn't suddenly start moving all at once with no warning, it starts progressively from the front, and you see it happening (or at least if you're paying attention you do). When that happens you can pick a suitable place and move back into the queue and then across to the left if necessary.

I'm pretty shocked at the number of experienced cyclists on here who prefer to filter on the left, as it's only on the rarest of occaisions that I've felt it was safer than filtering to the right.

I also thought it interesting that you describe a bicycle as "slow-accelerating". It's my experience that from a standing or slow moving start I can out-accelerate most motorised vehicles over the first 10-30 metres, which is generally enough to pull back into a queue or safely clear a cross-roads in the primary position etc.

whyamihere

Hmmm, on reading this back, it looks like I've been seeming to advocate filtering right regardless of traffic conditions. A little clarification is in order I feel:

1. I only filter along the right hand side of the traffic (or along the centre on one road which is essentially designed for it).
2. This doesn't mean that I will always filter to the right. It just means that if I can't filter to the right, I don't filter at all. I will just sit in the queue of traffic in primary position until the traffic moves or a gap opens.
3. If there is a lane available to the left, for example a bus lane or a lane with occasional obstacles as LiT described - Go for it.

nation

I was actually thinking about this as I rode in this morning. The end of half term means that some of the roads I ride in on are absolutely packed. There's one particular stretch, two lanes in either direction, which has solid traffic for about a mile in my direction of travel. Thing is, the road isn't really even wide enough for two lanes. If two reasonably large cars end up side by side they encroach on the oncoming lane.

For that particular stretch, I tend to filter up the middle if possible while the traffic is stationary, and then take a lane when the lights change and the queue shuffles forward. To my shame I took to the pavement to pass an HGV next to a bus rather than risk riding directly at the oncoming traffic (which is moving fast, since their lane is clear).

The rest of the time I tend to filter wherever there's more space, which is almost invariably on the right. There's not much in the way of bus lanes or usable cycle lanes on my route, and the drivers around here seem to like to hug the kerb. Approaching junctions I'll take primary in the relevant lane instead of filtering to avoid the risk of getting hooked in either direction.

Rich158

+1 to that whyamihere and Graeme_s

If I'm moving, can see stationary traffic ahead, and there's room I'll nearly always filter to the right and keep moving. I've never had a problem with cars letting me back in if the traffic moves off as it's usually a gradual process and I pick my spot so I cause minimal disruption to the traffic flow.

There are certain junctions where I just sit in the traffic in primary position ready to move off again as it would be too dangerous to filter. It doesn't stop idiots trying to pull alongside me though :roll: I usually find I can keep up with the traffic untill it hit's 25-30 mph and then I move over slightly to let the impatient buggers past.

Likewise there's usually a line of stationary traffic at the top of Shooters Hill, and whilst I could filter to the right if it moves I'd be hung out to dry on a steep hill, so I stay to the left.

lost_in_thought

To those who prefer to filter to the right, I just can't get why you feel safer there.

Sure, if there's absolutely no oncoming traffic and the traffic going your way is stopped or really slow moving and there are obstacles blocking the way on the left, I'll be on the right.

However, when I'm there I'm very aware that there's usually only a very small gap between me and where oncoming traffic can legally be, indeed if I'm on the right I usually find myself on the other side of the road and it's only to avoid whatever obstacle is on the left before I pop back in again.

The left is where I find traffic leaves more space, so that's where I am, but I'm very aware of big trucks, bendy buses and the like.

biondino

I've calmed down a bit (sorry, was in a foul mood earlier) and I also don't want to make it sound like I stick to the left at all times. Absolutely an experienced cyclist needs to consider all the conditions and make a judgement call based thereon. My issue was with the concept that "filtering should be carried out on the right", my argument being that in situations where it ISN'T the correct course of action, you're in much more danger.

Slow-accelerating bikes - I was specifically talking about once cars are (getting) up to speed. Drivers all know how frustrating it is to be stuck behind a restricted 50cc scooter - bike is basically the same, but 5-15mph slower depending on the rider. From zero I am very happy that at the very least my acceleration will match or beat any drivers who aren't boyracing from light to light.

Clever Pun's 2-1 argument is strong but doesn't mention what happens if the cars straight ahead and on the right DON'T see you which equals squashage!

My basic golden rule about riding a bike is to always, no matter what the circumstances, *minimise* the dangers if an accident were to occur. This usually involves a less-bad alternative, such as crashing on the pavement rather than into oncoming traffic.

Clever Pun

it was all about increasing the percentage of being seen...

whyamihere

lost_in_thought wrote:

To those who prefer to filter to the right, I just can't get why you feel safer there.

Sure, if there's absolutely no oncoming traffic and the traffic going your way is stopped or really slow moving and there are obstacles blocking the way on the left, I'll be on the right.

However, when I'm there I'm very aware that there's usually only a very small gap between me and where oncoming traffic can legally be, indeed if I'm on the right I usually find myself on the other side of the road and it's only to avoid whatever obstacle is on the left before I pop back in again.

The left is where I find traffic leaves more space, so that's where I am, but I'm very aware of big trucks, bendy buses and the like.

On the right, I can see what's coming.

Situation One: There's a bus approaching from the other direction, it's wide enough to take the whole lane and if I continue leaving a safe gap to the cars I'm filtering past, there will be a collision. As I'm on the right, I can see it coming, and pull over slightly to let the bus through. The driver can see me, and drivers don't actually want a collision, so they'll slow down slightly and ensure I'm out of the way. Maybe 5 seconds added on to each of our journeys, nobody minds, everyone's happy.

Situation Two: There's a bus approaching from the other direction, it's wide enough to take the whole lane. At the same time, a motorcyclist is filtering right, and I'm filtering left. The motorcyclist pulls in in the same way I did, a driver in a 4x4 pulls over slightly to let him in without checking the left hand mirror, or while I'm in their blind spot. I can't see the hazard developing due to the height of the 4x4, I can't see the motorbike, I can't see the bus, the first I know of anything happening is when the 4x4 has started to pull across me.

Situation Three: I'm filtering left past stationary traffic. Someone trying to get to work in a taxi decides it will be quicker to get out and walk the last few hundred metres, pays up and opens the door right ahead of me. They don't check as they're not expecting anyone to be moving down the left. I go straight into the door.

Situation 4: Same as situation 3, but I'm on the right. The worker gets out, but I don't care as he's on the other side of the taxi to me. I carry on without any hindrance.

Now, in which situations would you feel happier?

whyamihere

biondino wrote:

My basic golden rule about riding a bike is to always, no matter what the circumstances, *minimise* the dangers if an accident were to occur. This usually involves a less-bad alternative, such as crashing on the pavement rather than into oncoming traffic.

I would agree with this, if all other things were equal. I agree that if you get knocked off while filtering less, the consequences are likely to be less. However, I would argue that the chance of getting into a collision when filtering left is far higher. I prefer to avoid accidents at all rather than accepting accidents which will hurt a bit less.

the_hundredth_idiot

nasahapley wrote:

most importantly, assume everyone else on the road is a complete f***ing idiot.

+ 1. Absolutely. Most of the time I'm wrong but I'm right often enough to be glad I made the assumption.