club tt rules?
Comments
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nasahapley wrote:Now I wouldn't wear a sleeveless top to cycle in, nor would I wear replica team kit, but this thread has put me off getting into time trialling quite a bit. Are there many other pettifogging rules such as these? I mean, wearing sleeves as a point of decency - is Mary Whitehouse the head honcho at CTT? Is this the year 2009 or 1899? Maybe it's just me being a (relative) yoof of today, but these rules seem really weird!
If the rules are too "weird" for you find something else to do that doesn't have "weird"
rules.
Dennis Noward0 -
Cheers for the pithy reply dennis - have you ever considered working for the stateside version of CTT as a development officer or something?
Couscous, that's some useful info, I'll keep an eye out for those events. Despite coming across as a right old moaner, I still do want to give tt-ing a go. I often blast along a 10-mile route of my own devising which is fun in it's own way, but I bet I'd go quicker in a proper event! I still believe that CTT could do themselves a lot of favours by modernising entry requirements/rules for tts, but I accept that might be a minority view and that many people are quite happy with things the way they are.0 -
nasahapley wrote:Cheers for the pithy reply dennis - have you ever considered working for the stateside version of CTT as a development officer or something?
To be quite honest (and blow my own horn) I have been an offical at more races
than you probably have been in, watched, and heard about combined. How's that for "pithy". Quit your "whinning" and wear what you're supposed to or go off by yourself
and race. Although I can't see much fun in that. Just do it, as they say.
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:To be quite honest (and blow my own horn) I have been an offical at more races
than you probably have been in, watched, and heard about combined. How's that for "pithy". Quit your "whinning" and wear what you're supposed to or go off by yourself
and race. Although I can't see much fun in that. Just do it, as they say.
Dennis Noward
Thanks again dennis! You are right that you're vastly more experienced than me when it comes to cycle racing - and it's good to see that years of selfless devotion to the sport needn't be at the expense of affability. Cheers for deigning to offer guidance to a mere minnow such as myself. 0 -
You'd be fine wearing pro kit in a club time trial - these are more beginner friendly.
Er no sleeves - its gonna be a bit chilly for that for another month or two isnt it ?0 -
nasahapley wrote:dennisn wrote:To be quite honest (and blow my own horn) I have been an offical at more races
than you probably have been in, watched, and heard about combined. How's that for "pithy". Quit your "whinning" and wear what you're supposed to or go off by yourself
and race. Although I can't see much fun in that. Just do it, as they say.
Dennis Noward Thanks again dennis! You are right that you're vastly more experienced than me when it comes to cycle racing - and it's good to see that years of selfless devotion to the sport needn't be at the expense of affability. Cheers for deigning to offer guidance to a mere minnow such as myself.
Just do it.0 -
dennisn wrote:nasahapley wrote:Cheers for the pithy reply dennis - have you ever considered working for the stateside version of CTT as a development officer or something?
To be quite honest (and blow my own horn) I have been an offical at more races
than you probably have been in, watched, and heard about combined. How's that for "pithy". Quit your "whinning" and wear what you're supposed to or go off by yourself
and race. Although I can't see much fun in that. Just do it, as they say.
Dennis Noward
Really Dennis? With an attitude like that you were a race organiser? Who'd have thunk it?
Guy voices an honest opinion and asks a question and you jump all over him. And people wonder why we have difficulty attracting particpiants."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:dennisn wrote:nasahapley wrote:Cheers for the pithy reply dennis - have you ever considered working for the stateside version of CTT as a development officer or something?
To be quite honest (and blow my own horn) I have been an offical at more races
than you probably have been in, watched, and heard about combined. How's that for "pithy". Quit your "whinning" and wear what you're supposed to or go off by yourself
and race. Although I can't see much fun in that. Just do it, as they say.
Dennis Noward
Really Dennis? With an attitude like that you were a race organiser? Who'd have thunk it?
Guy voices an honest opinion and asks a question and you jump all over him. And people wonder why we have difficulty attracting particpiants.
As far as I'm concerned it's just "moaning and groaning". Maybe I'm having a bad day
but
that's how I see it. And by the way, I'm voicing an honest opinion.
Dennis Noward0 -
Cant see that its a big deal really - I doubt I'd be allowed to play footy in a sleeveless top or cricket or golf. Its just not part of the done thing.
If I want to take part in a sport I'm happy to play by their rules.0 -
1) The CTT Rules are not well written so there's a loophole and you can waer atrade team top in any event as long as they are not currently UCI registered.
2) You can't find all detail for events on ine - the CTT website usually only gives the organiser's address for events that take place before Easter - so you need to buy a handbook. As an organisers I got fed up with people phoning me asking for my address - I never gave it , just told them to buy a handbook.0 -
How the hell is the timekeeper meant to address the UCI registration issue at 7am in a layby in the middle of nowhere ?0
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Strictly speaking its not up to the timekeeeper to police the rules. Its up to the rider to know and follow the rules and be subject to subsequent investigation and possibly disqualification or ban if he/she is guilty.0
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I must say, as someone looking from the outside in, I find the whole argument hilarious.
Given the rather garish nature of the many cycling tops out there which look as though someone has loaded a canon full of different coloured paint and fired it at them it seems arguments of decency are the least of the the problem if your trying to present a good image.
As for the rules. Well you lose me when you start talking about page 300+ of the rule book :shock: I'll turn up for one next year once I have had time to properly familiarise myself with the rules in full (I say all this but in reality the rules of CTT have absolutely no bearing on me at all given my location ) 0 -
I'm loving this thread as well!
Some of you honestly think that the sport is dieing and that ctt are doing you a favour by organising events and letting you ride them.
If you don't want to follow the rules, think the rules silly, think that the people are arrogant, can't be bothered to join a club (even though you expect a club to put on an event on for you), or think it's too difficult to enter, then go and do something else, because honestly it will be your loss.
I tell you what, I've got a better idea, why don't you actually join a club, get on a committee and actually do something about it to make it better.
Or an even better idea, go and ride a sporive and pay to pretend to be a racer.
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What's all this talk about decency - I first started TTing over 50 years ago and I've never heard that before. The original reasons given were to offer a little "protection" in the event of a crash.0
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Chrisw12 - you really need to have a chat with yourself. You'll have a heart attack with rage like that...0
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blackhands wrote:What's all this talk about decency - I first started TTing over 50 years ago and I've never heard that before. The original reasons given were to offer a little "protection" in the event of a crash.
I'm with you, now that you mention it. Heard that many years ago myself. Thanks
for jogging my memory.
Dennis Noward0 -
chrisw12 wrote:If you don't want to follow the rules, think the rules silly, think that the people are arrogant, can't be bothered to join a club (even though you expect a club to put on an event on for you), or think it's too difficult to enter, then go and do something else, because honestly it will be your loss.
What is it with all this 'it's my way or the highway' stuff? Is it a precondition of riding time trials that the CTT is infallible and their rules shall not be questioned in any way? The way I see it is that belting along on a bike is a blast, and part of the beauty of a time trial is it's simplicity ('race of truth' and all that), so why complicate it with odd kit requirements? You may say 'well that's the way it's always been, we've canvassed our members and they like it', but in my humble opinion that's a slightly introspective way of looking at it. If you value the future of the sport, why not try to look at it from the perspective of a potential newcomer?
I agree that neither joining a club, filling in a form or sending off a cheque is exactly difficult, but then it's even less difficult to do a whole load of other sports. Me, I'd do an aforementioned LDWA event, a fell race or even (whisper it) a sportive. Maybe that is my loss, but it doesn't feel like it right now.
As for the 'expecting a club to put on an event for me' line, I would have thought clubs could only benefit from allowing non-affiliated riders to compete, and that a fair few people would join a club subsequent to getting a taste for tt-ing. If you look at the results lists for club-organised running events, up to half the field can be non-affiliated and you don't hear clubs getting shirty about it. I doubt very much the same amount would compete if club membership were mandatory, and add all those entry fees (plus the usual £1 surcharge for non-affiliated members), and that equals a lot of extra dosh for the club. I honestly can't see how tt-ing is that different.
Now I agree that the kit requirement/club membership requirements/entry process for tts are by no means wildly unreasonable, I'm just saying that maybe it would be better if they were different. And I'm posting in the spirit of debate, not to get anyone's backs up, but I'm braced for more 'if you don't like it...'0 -
chrisw12 wrote:If you don't want to follow the rules, think the rules silly, think that the people are arrogant, can't be bothered to join a club (even though you expect a club to put on an event on for you), or think it's too difficult to enter, then go and do something else, because honestly it will be your loss.
What is it with all this 'it's my way or the highway' stuff? Is it a precondition of riding time trials that the CTT is infallible and their rules shall not be questioned in any way? The way I see it is that belting along on a bike is a blast, and part of the beauty of a time trial is it's simplicity ('race of truth' and all that), so why complicate it with odd kit requirements? You may say 'well that's the way it's always been, we've canvassed our members and they like it', but in my humble opinion that's a slightly introspective way of looking at it. If you value the future of the sport, why not try to look at it from the perspective of a potential newcomer?
I agree that neither joining a club, filling in a form or sending off a cheque is exactly difficult, but then it's even less difficult to do a whole load of other sports. Me, I'd do an aforementioned LDWA event, a fell race or even (whisper it) a sportive. Maybe that is my loss, but it doesn't feel like it right now.
As for the 'expecting a club to put on an event for me' line, I would have thought clubs could only benefit from allowing non-affiliated riders to compete, and that a fair few people would join a club subsequent to getting a taste for tt-ing. If you look at the results lists for club-organised running events, up to half the field can be non-affiliated and you don't hear clubs getting shirty about it. I doubt very much the same amount would compete if club membership were mandatory, and add all those entry fees (plus the usual £1 surcharge for non-affiliated members), and that equals a lot of extra dosh for the club. I honestly can't see how tt-ing is that different.
Now I agree that the kit requirement/club membership requirements/entry process for tts are by no means wildly unreasonable, I'm just saying that maybe it would be better if they were different. And I'm posting in the spirit of debate, not to get anyone's backs up, but I'm braced for more 'if you don't like it...'0 -
chrisw12 wrote:If you don't want to follow the rules, think the rules silly, think that the people are arrogant, can't be bothered to join a club (even though you expect a club to put on an event on for you), or think it's too difficult to enter, then go and do something else, because honestly it will be your loss.
What is it with all this 'it's my way or the highway' stuff? Is it a precondition of riding time trials that you accept the infallibility of the CTT and that their rules shall not be questioned in any way? The way I see it is that belting along on a bike is a blast, and part of the beauty of a time trial is it's simplicity ('race of truth' and all that), so why complicate it with odd kit requirements? You may say 'well that's the way it's always been, we've canvassed our members and they like it', but in my humble opinion that's a slightly introspective way of looking at it. If you value the future of the sport, why not try to look at it from the perspective of a potential newcomer?
I agree that neither joining a club, filling in a form or sending off a cheque is exactly difficult, but then it's even less difficult to do a whole load of other sports. Me, I'd do an aforementioned LDWA event, a fell race or even (whisper it) a sportive. Maybe that is my loss, but it doesn't feel like it right now.
As for the 'expecting a club to put on an event for me' line, I would have thought clubs could only benefit from allowing non-affiliated riders to compete, and that a fair few people would join a club subsequent to getting a taste for tt-ing. If you look at the results lists for club-organised running events, up to half the field can be non-affiliated and you don't hear clubs getting shirty about it. I doubt very much the same amount would compete if club membership were mandatory, and add all those entry fees (plus the usual £1 surcharge for non-affiliated members), and that equals a lot of extra dosh for the club. I honestly can't see how tt-ing is that different.
Now I agree that the kit requirement/club membership requirements/entry process for tts are by no means wildly unreasonable, I'm just saying that maybe it would be better if they were different. And I'm posting in the spirit of debate, not to get anyone's backs up, but I'm braced for more 'if you don't like it...'0 -
Its an old sport - and the rules have been relaxed over the years but all sports have odd rules. Hasnt down hill mountain biking banned skinsuits ?
I'm sure anyone could rally against the odd rules in any sport if they wanted to. Theres not much point in doing so though, you're not going to change them from the outside.0 -
nasahapley wrote:chrisw12 wrote:If you don't want to follow the rules, think the rules silly, think that the people are arrogant, can't be bothered to join a club (even though you expect a club to put on an event on for you), or think it's too difficult to enter, then go and do something else, because honestly it will be your loss.
As for the 'expecting a club to put on an event for me' line, I would have thought clubs could only benefit from allowing non-affiliated riders to compete, and that a fair few people would join a club subsequent to getting a taste for tt-ing. If you look at the results lists for club-organised running events, up to half the field can be non-affiliated and you don't hear clubs getting shirty about it. I doubt very much the same amount would compete if club membership were mandatory, and add all those entry fees (plus the usual £1 surcharge for non-affiliated members), and that equals a lot of extra dosh for the club. I honestly can't see how tt-ing is that different.
Here in the states you are not allowed to ride in any club race without being a member of that club. You must also be a paid member of The U.S. Cycling Federation. All this is strictly an insurance thing and if we were to allow just anyone to race, the club and it's officers would not be covered in the event of a lawsuit(no matter how many pieces of paper and disclaimers you might sign). There is a one race membership but all the money goes to U.S.C.F. Don't know about you but I have no desire to be involved in lawsuits and
injury litigation of non members. There is more to racing and setting it up than just hauling ass around the countryside as you please.
Dennis Noward0 -
The thing is TTing isn't struggling for numbers, many evening club courses for instance can only take fields of 30 riders and unless the weather is dreadful then most events will be full, so there is no need to allow individuals to ride who aren't putting anything back into the sport. And if there is space many clubs will let you join their club at the event.
I'm still unsure of why people consider that the requirement for a minimum of plain T-shirt and shorts is unreasonable?0 -
nasahapley wrote:chrisw12 wrote:If you don't want to follow the rules, think the rules silly, think that the people are arrogant, can't be bothered to join a club (even though you expect a club to put on an event on for you), or think it's too difficult to enter, then go and do something else, because honestly it will be your loss.
What is it with all this 'it's my way or the highway' stuff? Is it a precondition of riding time trials that you accept the infallibility of the CTT and that their rules shall not be questioned in any way? The way I see it is that belting along on a bike is a blast, and part of the beauty of a time trial is it's simplicity ('race of truth' and all that), so why complicate it with odd kit requirements? You may say 'well that's the way it's always been, we've canvassed our members and they like it', but in my humble opinion that's a slightly introspective way of looking at it. If you value the future of the sport, why not try to look at it from the perspective of a potential newcomer?
I agree that neither joining a club, filling in a form or sending off a cheque is exactly difficult, but then it's even less difficult to do a whole load of other sports. Me, I'd do an aforementioned LDWA event, a fell race or even (whisper it) a sportive. Maybe that is my loss, but it doesn't feel like it right now.
As for the 'expecting a club to put on an event for me' line, I would have thought clubs could only benefit from allowing non-affiliated riders to compete, and that a fair few people would join a club subsequent to getting a taste for tt-ing. If you look at the results lists for club-organised running events, up to half the field can be non-affiliated and you don't hear clubs getting shirty about it. I doubt very much the same amount would compete if club membership were mandatory, and add all those entry fees (plus the usual £1 surcharge for non-affiliated members), and that equals a lot of extra dosh for the club. I honestly can't see how tt-ing is that different.
Now I agree that the kit requirement/club membership requirements/entry process for tts are by no means wildly unreasonable, I'm just saying that maybe it would be better if they were different. And I'm posting in the spirit of debate, not to get anyone's backs up, but I'm braced for more 'if you don't like it...'
Fair points (don't know why you posted it three times though)
tbh, I came to tt's from four years in triathlon and looking from the outside there did seem that there could be a lot of improvements in tt's . Then when you get into the sport you realise that it's pretty good and pretty right as it is. Some things could be changed, but are they urgently neeeded changes, I don't think so.
A few questions about the running events you mention and a couple of points on value for money.
I've said that open events cost £7 (approx) but are you aware that there are club events which can cost as little £1. Some of these can be come and try, so no club membership needed. These are supposed to be the 'hook' to get people that you mentioned.
Questions,
Do the running events offer prize money?
Do the running events have to have some sort of insurance?
Do the running events have to hire a hq?0 -
eh wrote:The thing is TTing isn't struggling for numbers, many evening club courses for instance can only take fields of 30 riders and unless the weather is dreadful then most events will be full, so there is no need to allow individuals to ride who aren't putting anything back into the sport. And if there is space many clubs will let you join their club at the event.
I'm still unsure of why people consider that the requirement for a minimum of plain T-shirt and shorts is unreasonable?
Did you mean club or did you actually mean to say sport?0 -
Sport as in TTs. Not really worth debating who does/doesn't help out, but all I'd say is that without peoples parents, wives etc. most races wouldn't happen.0
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eh wrote:Sport as in TTs. Not really worth debating who does/doesn't help out, but all I'd say is that without peoples parents, wives etc. most races wouldn't happen.
I wasn't really haven't a go as such but just didn't know if you meant to be just as harsh. I agree that the events that non attached members go to are thanks to the efforts of those in the clubs (and their families) however often it seems to be the burden is often carried by the few rather than the many in the clubs so I just think that you could level that remark at plenty of club members too. Unfortunately that effort is only ever going to be one way as it is for clubs to attract cyclists and not for the cyclists to attract clubs (unless they are extremely talented of course).0 -
so I just think that you could level that remark at plenty of club members too.
Fully agree with that, although if in a club then at least the club can exert some pressure on those people to put something back, e.g. not allowing members of the club to ride at events put on by the club.0
