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club tt rules?

love2ridelove2ride Posts: 224
Hi
Are club tt strict on the rule that every event participant must have long or short sleeves. nothing cut off at the shoulder.
thanks
will
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Posts

  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Big debating point this one believe it or not.

    Officially ctt rules say that you should have a top that covers the top of your arm, so short sleeves ok but vests not ok.

    Now club events should follow those rules but I'd imagine that if a newcomer turned up wanting to ride, some wouldn't turn them away.

    I don't like the rule but at the end of the day it's there so you might as well adhere to it, be it a club event or an open.

    Since you are aware of the rule, follow it and do not put the organiser in a difficult position.

    That's an outline, if you want more details of the great debate that took place or you want to know the exact wording of the rule, I'll post you some links.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    I think even club events they will ask you to wear sleeves. The rules used on a club evening event might not follow 100% the CTT rules on clothing, but I do think they insist on this one. Our club might be completely different from another one however, best bet is to ask the TT secretary of the club invovled.
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    No, best bet is to turn up in the right type of kit and obey the rules, no need to ask anyone.
  • Sleeves. It's a cycling event, not filming for a new 'gay chatline' ad.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    chrisw12 wrote:
    No, best bet is to turn up in the right type of kit and obey the rules, no need to ask anyone.

    There is no harm in asking to be honest, doesn't take 5 mins to talking to someone who actually organises the events. The might not follow the CTT rules exactly, because they don't need to in club evening events.
  • guv001guv001 Posts: 688
    My club would not allow you to ride without your shoulders covered. This happened last summer but instead of turning the newcomer away they lent him a top so he could ride.
  • graeme_s-2graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Just out of curiosity, what is the point of the rule?
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    I'm not trying to be argumentative here but even in club events you should be following ctt rules. If your club is not following ctt rules then it's leaving itself open to problems if anything goes wrong. Remember the governing body is there to help the clubs and to sort out problems if things go wrong, it will have difficulty doing that if clubs are not obeying the rules.


    As I said, I don't like the rule and I voted for change but at the end of the day every sport has a dress code and some people like things kept the way they are, which in my view is fair enough.
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    Possibly one of the oddest questions ever IMO. Why would you want to ride in a vest, weird behaviour if you ask me. Also where are you going to stick the pins to hold your arm number on if you are wearing a vest?

    More importantly cyclists should have some style and dignity, and anyone wanting to look like a beach volley ball player is not type of person that should be encouraged to cycle.

    NB: reason given in RR for this rule is that it stops you loosing even more skin in the event of a crash.
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    On the subject of TT clothing can I wear a team replica shirt to a TT? Reading the rules its not clear as they seam to say you can't wear a sponsors shirt but as I will never ride for Euskaltel does it matter?
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    markos1963 wrote:
    On the subject of TT clothing can I wear a team replica shirt to a TT? Reading the rules its not clear as they seam to say you can't wear a sponsors shirt but as I will never ride for Euskaltel does it matter?

    Def not able to wear team replica kit for opens but I think you are allowed to wear it for club events.

    Eh.

    Your point about the sleeves and crashes would be valid if ctt had a must wear a helmet policy. It's difficult to argue that you should cover your shoulders for safety reasons but you don't have to wear a helmet. You can kind of see the contradiction.

    Also you don't normally have arms numbers in opens and club events, only championship events.

    Aint I the little rule expert all of a sudden, I'll be getting a bad name (like ref.) :oops:
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    chrisw12 wrote:
    markos1963 wrote:
    On the subject of TT clothing can I wear a team replica shirt to a TT? Reading the rules its not clear as they seam to say you can't wear a sponsors shirt but as I will never ride for Euskaltel does it matter?

    Def not able to wear team replica kit for opens but I think you are allowed to wear it for club events.

    Just an example of not following CTT rules 100% :wink: . If the follow the rules as they should, this wouldn't be allowed, but it is.

    As I said no harm in asking, the guy might only have a tri suit hence why he asked the question :wink: I did say they will probably say you need sleeves, and this is probably the best option, if you haven't got a cycle top, get one before the TT season starts in earnest.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    markos1963 wrote:
    On the subject of TT clothing can I wear a team replica shirt to a TT? Reading the rules its not clear as they seam to say you can't wear a sponsors shirt but as I will never ride for Euskaltel does it matter?

    If you did ride for Euskatel, you would be able to ride with that shirt, but you are not allowed trade team clothing, if you are not part of a trade team.
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    Chris I did state that the sleeves justification was from road racing, not sure why it is there in TTs. I guess it has to be hang back to days long ago, and the reason helmets won't be treated the same is that until the 80's almost no one would have even considered wearing one. To be honest TT rules are very relaxed now compared to how they were back in the day.

    Replica kit should be banned if it isn't already, after all you don't see conference side football teams wearing Liverpool kit do you.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,463
    Here in the states our club races are run under pretty much the same rules as U.S.
    Cycling Federation rules. This requires a jersey that covers the shoulders. The club follows these rules because we get our race insurance from U.S.C.F and it's a requirement that we go by their rules. Although, at club races you may wear any teams
    kit that you wish, but at U.S.C.F. races you may only wear the jersey of whomever sponsors your group or club or if you have no sponsor(listed on your racing licence)
    you must wear a plain jersey. In other words you cannot wear your favorite PRO kit
    unless you are a member of that team.

    Dennis Noward
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    Futher point for a 10TT you hardly need a proper cycling top, any old plain T-shirt would work, albeit remember to bring a dry one to change into after so you don't get too cold. I agree that for longer distances cycling specific clothing is a better bet.
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    SBezza wrote:
    markos1963 wrote:
    On the subject of TT clothing can I wear a team replica shirt to a TT? Reading the rules its not clear as they seam to say you can't wear a sponsors shirt but as I will never ride for Euskaltel does it matter?

    If you did ride for Euskatel, you would be able to ride with that shirt, but you are not allowed trade team clothing, if you are not part of a trade team.

    I don't ride for the Orbea sponsered team so does that mean i can't ride my bike? :wink:
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    SBezza wrote:
    chrisw12 wrote:
    markos1963 wrote:
    On the subject of TT clothing can I wear a team replica shirt to a TT? Reading the rules its not clear as they seam to say you can't wear a sponsors shirt but as I will never ride for Euskaltel does it matter?

    Def not able to wear team replica kit for opens but I think you are allowed to wear it for club events.

    Just an example of not following CTT rules 100% :wink: . If the follow the rules as they should, this wouldn't be allowed, but it is.

    As I said no harm in asking, the guy might only have a tri suit hence why he asked the question :wink: I did say they will probably say you need sleeves, and this is probably the best option, if you haven't got a cycle top, get one before the TT season starts in earnest.

    Sorry mate, it IS an example of following ctt rules 100% as ctt lays the rules for opens and club events and the ctt rules differentiate between both.

    It is allowed because the ctt rules explicitly state that it is allowed for club events..

    See page 371 of handbook section 16, competitors clothing.

    Arnold Rimmer signing out. (for red dwarf fans) :wink:
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    yes, you need to wear sleeves in type b events(club). although you are allowed to wear team replica kit in type b events ,but not in type a events (opens). as for the reason for sleeves ,it is quite simply down to decency. you are also requirered to be clean and tidy.
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • Now I wouldn't wear a sleeveless top to cycle in, nor would I wear replica team kit, but this thread has put me off getting into time trialling quite a bit. Are there many other pettifogging rules such as these? I mean, wearing sleeves as a point of decency - is Mary Whitehouse the head honcho at CTT? Is this the year 2009 or 1899? Maybe it's just me being a (relative) yoof of today, but these rules seem really weird!
  • andy_wrxandy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    I am amused by the difference to triathlon regs.

    Triathlon also has rules on decency - specifically 'no nudity', so men have to wear a shirt or vest covering the upper body : this has resulted in the development of the 'tri top' which is basically a bikini top for men, but complies with the rules in that your chest is covered, even if your stomach isn't...

    When I did tri's, I never had one of these tri tops (too cold in Britain, let alone looking stupid or censored -erotic !), but I did have a tri suit, which was basically equivalent to a cycling skinsuit but without sleeves, as it was designed to give free arm movement to swim in, as well as to bike and run.

    The tri club I used to belong to was registered with CTT and I did several TT's, entered with the tri club as my club.
    But I had to wear a plain cycling jersey, couldn't do it in my club colours as my trisuit was sleeveless.

    Agreed, those are the rules, so I complied with them, but there are quite a number of tri clubs affiliated with CTT, quite a number of triathletes doing TT's, so it is a shame the rules couldn't be aligned.
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Ok I'll say it again, I voted for sleeveless to be included.

    but

    All dress codes are weird if you think about it (why do cricketers where white trousers in summer and slide around on staining grass). Don't let that put you off tt'ing, Yes there are rules (just like in any sport) and there are dress standards (just like in every other sport.)

    Why exactly should ctt rules be aligned with triathlon? Don't you think that's a little bit arrogant? Surely a better suggestion would be that triathletes just obey the simple rules of tt'ing if they want to take part in tt's. It's not like I'm going to turn up at a tri without a helmet and expect to ride or expect tri to change their rules because I'm primarily a tt'er.

    I'm being devil's advocate here, I kind of agree with your arguments but this is what is then thrown back against you and I kind of see their point as well.
  • andy_wrxandy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    Bl**dy hell, back off a bit Chris !

    Did I not say "Agreed, those are the rules, so I complied with them" ?

    Rather than being 'arrogant', I said it was 'a shame'...



    To be honest, it's not the dress rules which would put me off TT'ing, it's the difficulty in finding event details, filling-in the entry forms, etc - fine once you understand it and are 'inside', but utterly offputting and incomprehensible to a newcomer, nothing like simply going to a website and entering your details as you would to enter a tri or sportive

    - but that's a different debate that's already had on here before at least twice I can remember...
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    Well unlike chrisw ,i voted to keep the current clothing regs as are.
    personally, i think it does come down to decency. you`ve got to draw the line somewhere, where it currently is , is exceptable to the majority of the people who take the time to put their oppinions forward and vote on it .

    i can see no comparison ,between the regs for time trialling and triathlon. different sports ,different set of rules. end of.
    cant see how testing can be difficult to get into ,as there are more events and riders doing it than any other form of cycle sport.
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    I can't see how it's hard to get into wither given one very important fact.

    You must be in a club to ride tt's.

    Why don't people ask people in their club how to get involved? It's easy really if you think about it.

    Trouble is, I suppose is that sportives and tris are individual sports (i.e. no club is needed,) so people assume that the same ease of entry should be in place to tt's.

    Couple of further points in defence of tt's.

    1) Cost. How much do sportives and tris cost to enter? TT's are about £7 with a free cup of tea. Club events even cheaper!

    2) Number of events/travelling. How many tris/sportives are there on any given weekend? Well there's pretty definitely a tt in your area on most summer weekends.

    3) If you haven't got the internet then how do you enter/know about the sportives/tris?

    So if you think some of the rules are a bit silly or you think the entry is a bit of a pain, have a think about the cost involved, the number of events you can do and the value for money you get with tt's.
  • nferrarnferrar Posts: 2,511
    As someone that might return to TTing (after a 15 year break) I was actually disappointed at how few open TT's are held these days (at least in the South West & South Wales area), maybe I'm looking through rose-tinted glasses but I'm sure there were a lot more events back when I was TTing. Oh and it's a pain trying to get details of local club events but that's more down to lack of web-sites or poorly maintained ones.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    chrisw12 wrote:
    [Sorry mate, it IS an example of following ctt rules 100% as ctt lays the rules for opens and club events and the ctt rules differentiate between both.

    It is allowed because the ctt rules explicitly state that it is allowed for club events..

    Fair point Chris. :D

    With regards to entering TT's it isn't that hard to be honest, one website lists all the events over the whole country, and the organisers. Fill a form in and send off a cheque, very easy really.

    This is going to be my first year of doing TT's, and I haven't had any issues finding out events, or entering them. You can generally still get an entry 2 weeks prior to the event, that is not the case of a sportive say, where you need to enter months in advance to just get a place.
  • chrisw12 wrote:
    I can't see how it's hard to get into wither given one very important fact.

    You must be in a club to ride tt's.

    Why don't people ask people in their club how to get involved? It's easy really if you think about it.

    Trouble is, I suppose is that sportives and tris are individual sports (i.e. no club is needed,) so people assume that the same ease of entry should be in place to tt's.

    Couple of further points in defence of tt's.

    1) Cost. How much do sportives and tris cost to enter? TT's are about £7 with a free cup of tea. Club events even cheaper!

    2) Number of events/travelling. How many tris/sportives are there on any given weekend? Well there's pretty definitely a tt in your area on most summer weekends.

    3) If you haven't got the internet then how do you enter/know about the sportives/tris?

    So if you think some of the rules are a bit silly or you think the entry is a bit of a pain, have a think about the cost involved, the number of events you can do and the value for money you get with tt's.

    All good points, but...

    You're assuming that everyone who might want to have a go at tt-ing will be in a club or want to join a club, which may not be the case. For instance, joining a club would be pretty much pointless for me for a variety of reasons. I don't much fancy paying to join just so I can have a go at tt-ing, either. As for the cost of events/frequency of events, you are right, but I can't help but compare tts with the various LDWA challenge (i.e. long distance off-road running) events I do from time to time. These typically cost 7 or 8 quid, for which you get manned checkpoints with drinks/snacks and a decent meal afterwards (you usually get a certificate too!). Most events can be entered online, or you can just turn up on the day, and you don't need to be a member of anything to do them - it really couldn't be easier. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, and as sub55 said tt-ing is pretty popular anyway, but it just seems to me that if CTT were serious about getting more newbies involved it could be made a bit easier to enter events.

    I'm a bit off the original topic here, so I'll belt up now!
  • nasahapley wrote:

    All good points, but...

    You're assuming that everyone who might want to have a go at tt-ing will be in a club or want to join a club, which may not be the case. For instance, joining a club would be pretty much pointless for me for a variety of reasons. I don't much fancy paying to join just so I can have a go at tt-ing, either. As for the cost of events/frequency of events, you are right, but I can't help but compare tts with the various LDWA challenge (i.e. long distance off-road running) events I do from time to time. These typically cost 7 or 8 quid, for which you get manned checkpoints with drinks/snacks and a decent meal afterwards (you usually get a certificate too!). Most events can be entered online, or you can just turn up on the day, and you don't need to be a member of anything to do them - it really couldn't be easier. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, and as sub55 said tt-ing is pretty popular anyway, but it just seems to me that if CTT were serious about getting more newbies involved it could be made a bit easier to enter events.

    I'm a bit off the original topic here, so I'll belt up now!

    That's what "Come and Try it" http://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/Abo ... fault.aspx events are for, you don't have to be a member of a club to ride these. All our club TT's are "Come and Try it" events, some district list all their club events or contact you local club to find them.
    "Racing is life, anything before or after is only waiting"
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    1) I'm sure there are specific "beginner" club TT events you can ride without being a member of a club, but there aren't many for good reason.

    2) The cost of joining most cycling clubs is small £10-20.

    3) Who do you think put the events on? If everyone wanted to ride as an individual there wouldn't be any events to enter.

    4) Entering TTs is easy, for Opens print the form off and post it to the organiser, for club then often you can just sign a sheet once at the event.

    CTT do have some slightly odd rules but a lot of it goes back to the days when cycle racing on open roads in the UK was illegal, hence, the need for secrecy. Trialthlon in comparison is pretty new and could start from scratch.
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