Paul Kimmage rattles Laid back Lance!!
Comments
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colint wrote:I have read his book, which is why I know he was finished as a cyclist and also doped. I suggest you re-read it if you didn't grasp the facts first time around.
He's obviously free to tell his story any way he wants, but I just refuse to buy this brave BS. Can you answer the questions why he didn't speak out BEFORE he doped, and why he doesn't ask about doping in other sports ?
Suggestion is not necessary ,I will do that as and when feel like it.
Him deciding he was finished doesn't meran he was finished, he decided, he could have carried on but chose not to. He did amps twice and caffeine once, If he spoke out before he doped he would never have doped and the WONDERFUL book he WROTE would not now have been READ
You refuse, that is kind of you
As to his not saying anything before he doped, it seems fairly obvious that he was caught up in the same shit as everyone else. It is after all a nasty business, when you speak out you get hammered, in his day the money was rubbish, it still is for some. They have you by your hamsters choker.
I stand up or out whenever it is required, there is no support, the world is full of cowards who keep their heads down at all times. They also have pretty pathetic excuses as to why they do nothing.
To monstrousise him as you do gives the green light to those who wonder whether or not to say anything or keep stum, stum being the green light in this case.0 -
don key wrote:colint wrote:I have read his book, which is why I know he was finished as a cyclist and also doped. I suggest you re-read it if you didn't grasp the facts first time around.
He's obviously free to tell his story any way he wants, but I just refuse to buy this brave BS. Can you answer the questions why he didn't speak out BEFORE he doped, and why he doesn't ask about doping in other sports ?
Suggestion is not necessary ,I will do that as and when feel like it.
Him deciding he was finished doesn't meran he was finished, he decided, he could have carried on but chose not to. He did amps twice and caffeine once, If he spoke out before he doped he would never have doped and the WONDERFUL book he WROTE would not now have been READ
You refuse, that is kind of you
As to his not saying anything before he doped, it seems fairly obvious that he was caught up in the same shoot as everyone else. It is after all a nasty business, when you speak out you get hammered, in his day the money was rubbish, it still is for some. They have you by your hamsters choker.
I stand up or out whenever it is required, there is no support, the world is full of cowards who keep their heads down at all times. They also have pretty pathetic excuses as to why they do nothing.
To monstrousise him as you do gives the green light to those who wonder whether or not to say anything or keep stum, stum being the green light in this case.
What? In English please. Did Kimmage proof read this post?!0 -
adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:colint wrote:I have read his book, which is why I know he was finished as a cyclist and also doped. I suggest you re-read it if you didn't grasp the facts first time around.
He's obviously free to tell his story any way he wants, but I just refuse to buy this brave BS. Can you answer the questions why he didn't speak out BEFORE he doped, and why he doesn't ask about doping in other sports ?
Suggestion is not necessary ,I will do that as and when feel like it.
Him deciding he was finished doesn't meran he was finished, he decided, he could have carried on but chose not to. He did amps twice and caffeine once, If he spoke out before he doped he would never have doped and the WONDERFUL book he WROTE would not now have been READ
You refuse, that is kind of you
As to his not saying anything before he doped, it seems fairly obvious that he was caught up in the same shoot as everyone else. It is after all a nasty business, when you speak out you get hammered, in his day the money was rubbish, it still is for some. They have you by your hamsters choker.
I stand up or out whenever it is required, there is no support, the world is full of cowards who keep their heads down at all times. They also have pretty pathetic excuses as to why they do nothing.
To monstrousise him as you do gives the green light to those who wonder whether or not to say anything or keep stum, stum being the green light in this case.
What? In English please. Did Kimmage proof read this post?!
Are you as cupid as your stunning?0 -
don key wrote:adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:colint wrote:I have read his book, which is why I know he was finished as a cyclist and also doped. I suggest you re-read it if you didn't grasp the facts first time around.
He's obviously free to tell his story any way he wants, but I just refuse to buy this brave BS. Can you answer the questions why he didn't speak out BEFORE he doped, and why he doesn't ask about doping in other sports ?
Suggestion is not necessary ,I will do that as and when feel like it.
Him deciding he was finished doesn't meran he was finished, he decided, he could have carried on but chose not to. He did amps twice and caffeine once, If he spoke out before he doped he would never have doped and the WONDERFUL book he WROTE would not now have been READ
You refuse, that is kind of you
As to his not saying anything before he doped, it seems fairly obvious that he was caught up in the same shoot as everyone else. It is after all a nasty business, when you speak out you get hammered, in his day the money was rubbish, it still is for some. They have you by your hamsters choker.
I stand up or out whenever it is required, there is no support, the world is full of cowards who keep their heads down at all times. They also have pretty pathetic excuses as to why they do nothing.
To monstrousise him as you do gives the green light to those who wonder whether or not to say anything or keep stum, stum being the green light in this case.
What? In English please. Did Kimmage proof read this post?!
Are you as cupid as your stunning?
I assume you mean 'you're' not 'your'.
I suggest you give up to be honest, you're not getting anywhere.0 -
adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:colint wrote:I have read his book, which is why I know he was finished as a cyclist and also doped. I suggest you re-read it if you didn't grasp the facts first time around.
He's obviously free to tell his story any way he wants, but I just refuse to buy this brave BS. Can you answer the questions why he didn't speak out BEFORE he doped, and why he doesn't ask about doping in other sports ?
Suggestion is not necessary ,I will do that as and when feel like it.
Him deciding he was finished doesn't meran he was finished, he decided, he could have carried on but chose not to. He did amps twice and caffeine once, If he spoke out before he doped he would never have doped and the WONDERFUL book he WROTE would not now have been READ
You refuse, that is kind of you
As to his not saying anything before he doped, it seems fairly obvious that he was caught up in the same shoot as everyone else. It is after all a nasty business, when you speak out you get hammered, in his day the money was rubbish, it still is for some. They have you by your hamsters choker.
I stand up or out whenever it is required, there is no support, the world is full of cowards who keep their heads down at all times. They also have pretty pathetic excuses as to why they do nothing.
To monstrousise him as you do gives the green light to those who wonder whether or not to say anything or keep stum, stum being the green light in this case.
What? In English please. Did Kimmage proof read this post?!
Are you as cupid as your stunning?
I assume you mean 'you're' not 'your'.
I suggest you give up to be honest, you're not getting anywhere.
If I have upset you as seems obvious then you will find it in your heart to thank me, of course if like the Gob i have pointed out your errant ways, that then gives you more reason to be thankful. As for your need to correct other people in their use of spelling , that is a sign from God that you have lost.
I don't need to give up to be honest as I am honest and my travelling speed is a private matter.0 -
don key wrote:adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:colint wrote:I have read his book, which is why I know he was finished as a cyclist and also doped. I suggest you re-read it if you didn't grasp the facts first time around.
He's obviously free to tell his story any way he wants, but I just refuse to buy this brave BS. Can you answer the questions why he didn't speak out BEFORE he doped, and why he doesn't ask about doping in other sports ?
Suggestion is not necessary ,I will do that as and when feel like it.
Him deciding he was finished doesn't meran he was finished, he decided, he could have carried on but chose not to. He did amps twice and caffeine once, If he spoke out before he doped he would never have doped and the WONDERFUL book he WROTE would not now have been READ
You refuse, that is kind of you
As to his not saying anything before he doped, it seems fairly obvious that he was caught up in the same shoot as everyone else. It is after all a nasty business, when you speak out you get hammered, in his day the money was rubbish, it still is for some. They have you by your hamsters choker.
I stand up or out whenever it is required, there is no support, the world is full of cowards who keep their heads down at all times. They also have pretty pathetic excuses as to why they do nothing.
To monstrousise him as you do gives the green light to those who wonder whether or not to say anything or keep stum, stum being the green light in this case.
What? In English please. Did Kimmage proof read this post?!
Are you as cupid as your stunning?
I assume you mean 'you're' not 'your'.
I suggest you give up to be honest, you're not getting anywhere.
If I have upset you as seems obvious then you will find it in your heart to thank me, of course if like the Gob i have pointed out your errant ways, that then gives you more reason to be thankful. As for your need to correct other people in their use of spelling , that is a sign from God that you have lost.
I don't need to give up to be honest as I am honest and my travelling speed is a private matter.
It's not your spelling I am correcting, it's your punctuation and your syntax.
God? To (mis)quote Alister Campbell 'I don't do God mate'
Finally, don't worry, you have not upset me in the slightest and I wish you well.0 -
adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:adeyboy wrote:don key wrote:colint wrote:I have read his book, which is why I know he was finished as a cyclist and also doped. I suggest you re-read it if you didn't grasp the facts first time around.
He's obviously free to tell his story any way he wants, but I just refuse to buy this brave BS. Can you answer the questions why he didn't speak out BEFORE he doped, and why he doesn't ask about doping in other sports ?
Suggestion is not necessary ,I will do that as and when feel like it.
Him deciding he was finished doesn't meran he was finished, he decided, he could have carried on but chose not to. He did amps twice and caffeine once, If he spoke out before he doped he would never have doped and the WONDERFUL book he WROTE would not now have been READ
You refuse, that is kind of you
As to his not saying anything before he doped, it seems fairly obvious that he was caught up in the same shoot as everyone else. It is after all a nasty business, when you speak out you get hammered, in his day the money was rubbish, it still is for some. They have you by your hamsters choker.
I stand up or out whenever it is required, there is no support, the world is full of cowards who keep their heads down at all times. They also have pretty pathetic excuses as to why they do nothing.
To monstrousise him as you do gives the green light to those who wonder whether or not to say anything or keep stum, stum being the green light in this case.
What? In English please. Did Kimmage proof read this post?!
Are you as cupid as your stunning?
I assume you mean 'you're' not 'your'.
I suggest you give up to be honest, you're not getting anywhere.
If I have upset you as seems obvious then you will find it in your heart to thank me, of course if like the Gob i have pointed out your errant ways, that then gives you more reason to be thankful. As for your need to correct other people in their use of spelling , that is a sign from God that you have lost.
I don't need to give up to be honest as I am honest and my travelling speed is a private matter.
It's not your spelling I am correcting, it's your punctuation and your syntax.
God? To (mis)quote Alister Campbell 'I don't do Mod Gate'
Finally, don't worry, you have not upset me in the slightest and I wish you well.
I will of course write whatever way I chews and worrying about whether I upset you or not is not really top ten at the moment. God seems to be a joint disinterest then.
The fangs that Prance ChArmsprong has on here are of the High order of hystericality . Thats good as I have a liking for funny outbursts.0 -
adeyboy wrote:micron writes...... "does he have a copyright on the word? From his semi messianic rant about being here to save us all from cancer, perhaps he thinks so."
And for this he should be sneered at? I imagine until you've suffered from it, you cannot understand what it does to you. I don't think he can save us from cancer, whether he belives it or not, but how can his attempts offend you so much?
I've had some cancer and heart disease in my family, I'm also an elite level rider. I've talked to them about the statements Kimmage made and their in agreement with Kimmage. Illegal drug use is cancer to sport.0 -
+1 KK, it's an apt metaphor.
As for admiring someone who conned a million dollars out of the TDU organisers who thought it was going to charity when it went into his back pocket? No, I don't admire dishonesty and fraudulent behaviour - in fact I find them far more offensive than someone using an analogy.0 -
micron wrote:+1 KK, it's an apt metaphor.
As for admiring someone who conned a million dollars out of the TDU organisers who thought it was going to charity when it went into his back pocket? No, I don't admire dishonesty and fraudulent behaviour - in fact I find them far more offensive than someone using an analogy.
where is the proof of that?..they kept quiet about it..never saw what was paid...0 -
Dave_1 wrote:micron wrote:+1 KK, it's an apt metaphor.
As for admiring someone who conned a million dollars out of the TDU organisers who thought it was going to charity when it went into his back pocket? No, I don't admire dishonesty and fraudulent behaviour - in fact I find them far more offensive than someone using an analogy.
where is the proof of that?..they kept quiet about it..never saw what was paid...
It was reported in the press and never denied. The numbers reported were between 1 and 2 million US. But it did go into his pocket, he confirmed the fee would not be going to the charity. He also said it wasn't a starting fee but one for talks / PA's etc. Because people would be interested if he wasn't riding a bike.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Dave_1 wrote:micron wrote:+1 KK, it's an apt metaphor.
As for admiring someone who conned a million dollars out of the TDU organisers who thought it was going to charity when it went into his back pocket? No, I don't admire dishonesty and fraudulent behaviour - in fact I find them far more offensive than someone using an analogy.
where is the proof of that?..they kept quiet about it..never saw what was paid...
It was reported in the press and never denied. The numbers reported were between 1 and 2 million US. But it did go into his pocket, he confirmed the fee would not be going to the charity. He also said it wasn't a starting fee but one for talks / PA's etc. Because people would be interested if he wasn't riding a bike.
I missed all that..wonder what he brought to the race though...it's a two way street0 -
Yep those trenchs are firmly dug, no looks like there moving positions anytime soon. Some points though ive noticed that alot of Pro LA posters do get upset with the other side just for there opinions and it does seem to degenerate into personal attacks (this does happen from the other side aswell but not as much i think). If your pro LA then all well and good, i for one am not bothered but i will give my opinon and its nice when you dont get shouted down as a LA Hater because of that. Dennis you seem to live in a very Black and White world. Alot of people on this forum have an opinion one way or the other but i think in general its not something that is greatly important to them. Alot of the threads on this section have been LA focused, i dont think shows a preference to LA threads, more its a reflection of the whitewash of LA news that seems to have no end.Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.0
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GO Francisco! Get some Big 'refills' and kick Lance's ass!
GO Kimmage.... This man is an absolute hero and SAINT for going up against Lance. It really showed how unprepared Lance was for a rebutal. AWSOME.0 -
KKspeeder wrote:GO Francisco! Get some Big 'refills' and kick Lance's ass!
GO Kimmage.... This man is an absolute hero and SAINT for going up against Lance. It really showed how unprepared Lance was for a rebutal. AWSOME.
been watching this thread with einterest. KK you sound to me like one of very few people who actually knows what they are talking about on the doping issue and you put forward some compelling points - albeit thats as far as it goes, many will not take what you are saying seriously without some validation - i appreciate that may well be difficult for you to achieve.
Anyway, I beg to differ reference your point on the press conference, i do not have any feelings of like or dislike for Kimmage but I really do not think he did himself any favours here, he played into Lance's hands entirely. the point on referencing Lance to a cancer whilst I and many of you dont have a problem with it is a fair analagy(sp) the LA PR machine and the US public are always going to have a field day with it. thats the way it is unfortunately.0 -
don key wrote:It might just be that a lot of us are bitter and twisted but I
cant help thinking that he might be twitter and busted.
Just a fraught thought brought to you freely and of the goodness of my arts.
They told us he was the Shimanoc scorcerer but I saw through the blouse arouse techniques which challenged all those less endowed than the eyebrows welded together hero and I am now firmly Campagnostic . It is indeceivable that this great man would lie
willingly so he started on a sawdust chowder diet and the brain developed as panned. The evil weavels were rooted in and the plan took off but due to an oversight while leading the bunch he was called back for his bicycle. His doctor is full of admiration, saying publicly that he bleeds beautifully. Honest hospital John, who said he was in the womb when it happened, has gone on to self employed stardom at the clank winic. if you don't believe me then ask someone who doesn't know and remember I said it worst.
Donkey, you really need to knock off the clockwork orange for a while.Dan0 -
iainf72 wrote:Dave_1 wrote:micron wrote:+1 KK, it's an apt metaphor.
It was reported in the press and never denied. The numbers reported were between 1 and 2 million US. But it did go into his pocket, he confirmed the fee would not be going to the charity. He also said it wasn't a starting fee but one for talks / PA's etc. Because people would be interested if he wasn't riding a bike.
Like I said on page whatever... his investments have gone bad.
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Not considering the other aspects of the case, I think Kimmage is not correct in saying the illness has been in remission. There have been too many cases of doping since Armstrong. Now then, this might be a peek into Kimmage's character & point of view, that he'd want to attribute a remission on drug use among cyclists to the retirement of Armstrong which imho folks, is not the case.
Perhaps his point of view has merits, cycling in the Olympics seemed clean and probably was, I think the one woman cyclist failed a test before even making it to Beijing so in fact, concerning women's cycling, the top Italian (world champion) and Spanish women's cyclists were banned from riding in Beijing due to doping problems. Nothing against Italy or Spain, but really, it's going to be difficult to have a uniform standard all around Europe, the USA and the world, I just don't think it can happen.
At times, I wonder if some people have personal knowledge that is too far to say in public such as I know X did this but I can't really substantiate it. (Ex. I know Phelps has smoked grass but I don't have proof of it if that picture had never come out: so what anyway.)
Different people may see things different ways; but I think Kimmage's words were in poor taste and unacceptable and to me, if I were the object of those words, I would find them cruel but I take things personally myself. However, I don't scrap Kimmage's opinions, his words were off the deep end. Armstrong's no saint though, so we'll have to see how this plays out.
I have watched cycling for some time, I doubt if things will have changed that much 10 years from now just as now is much like 10 years ago. There were brand new riders caught the last time out. The more things change, the more they stay the same.0 -
Of course what Kimmage did that was clever was to establish, without doubt, that the all new 'transparent' Armstrong is still operating the infamous blacklist.0
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Rockmount, that comment was about as intelligent and adult as the 'not worth the chair you're sitting on' remark
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micron wrote:Of course what Kimmage did that was clever was to establish, without doubt, that the all new 'transparent' Armstrong is still operating the infamous blacklist.
All I can say is, don't we all have our little blacklists(in whatever form it takes)? He's a human being, like you and I, and more than likely has people he likes and people he dislikes, just like you and I. No one is forcing you or I to talk to, or associate with, anyone we don't want to. Call it blacklist or what you will but everyone is allowed to "do it"
if they wish.
Dennis Noward0 -
Dennis, not being on friendly terms with some is normal, blocking people from attending press conferences and refusing to talk to accredited journalists is another, as is threatening some journalists that if they ask the wrong questions, they will be added to the list and potentially depriving them of their livelihood.0
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Kléber wrote:Dennis, not being on friendly terms with some is normal, blocking people from attending press conferences and refusing to talk to accredited journalists is another, as is threatening some journalists that if they ask the wrong questions, they will be added to the list and potentially depriving them of their livelihood.
To be honest, I can't work up a whole lot of sympathy for most journalists as it seems, at least to me, that they are making a living off someone else's name. Add to that the fact that they will write whatever sells the best and not necessarily the truth of things.
I still say that you and I don't have to talk to "accredited journalists" if we don't want to,
so why should Lance have to? He's no more "special" than you or I, right? Well, that's not quite true but I would like to think so.
Dennis Noward0 -
Kléber wrote:Dennis, not being on friendly terms with some is normal, blocking people from attending press conferences and refusing to talk to accredited journalists is another, as is threatening some journalists that if they ask the wrong questions, they will be added to the list and potentially depriving them of their livelihood.
I doubt that not being able to interview Armstrong will end any ones career its not as if he is the only rider in the world
Kimmage is journalist enough to know the game & enough of a self publicist to play it Armstong ain't the only high profile person to have a journalist black list so i wouldn't beat him up over it
Should LA sit down with Kimmage & do an interview? Why when Kimmage has already decided he is right & LA is wrong.0 -
feersumendjinn wrote:Kléber wrote:Dennis, not being on friendly terms with some is normal, blocking people from attending press conferences and refusing to talk to accredited journalists is another, as is threatening some journalists that if they ask the wrong questions, they will be added to the list and potentially depriving them of their livelihood.
I doubt that not being able to interview Armstrong will end any ones career its not as if he is the only rider in the world
Kimmage is journalist enough to know the game & enough of a self publicist to play it Armstong ain't the only high profile person to have a journalist black list so i wouldn't beat him up over it
Should LA sit down with Kimmage & do an interview? Why when Kimmage has already decided he is right & LA is wrong.
+1 Now THAT was well put.
Dennis Noward0 -
True. But let me make two points beyond Kimmage.feersumendjinn wrote:I doubt that not being able to interview Armstrong will end any ones career its not as if he is the only rider in the world
First, imagine you work for, say, Procycling and you've been sent to cover the Tour de France in the summer of 2004. What good are you if you can't get access to the yellow jersey? If you're dispatched to the race and blacklisted, it could well end your career.
Second, why not take on the doubters head on instead of barring them access? Even political scoundrels don't resort to this. Now maybe Armstrong doesn't have to talk to Kimmage but he needs to convince a lot of skeptics in Europe.0 -
micron wrote:Rockmount, that comment was about as intelligent and adult as the 'not worth the chair you're sitting on' remark
I thought the chair remark was a good response. Kimmage stepped over the line with his cancer analogy; he should make his point in other ways. That analogy yielded the high ground to Armstrong. Bad move.
Armstrong isn't the only rider welcoming back the black sheep into the fold. I don't see anyone confronting Millar, yet he hasn't said boo about riding in the same pack as Hamilton, Landis, Mancebo, Sevilla and Basso.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Kléber wrote:
True. But let me make two points beyond Kimmage.feersumendjinn wrote:I doubt that not being able to interview Armstrong will end any ones career its not as if he is the only rider in the world
First, imagine you work for, say, Procycling and you've been sent to cover the Tour de France in the summer of 2004. What good are you if you can't get access to the yellow jersey? If you're dispatched to the race and blacklisted, it could well end your career.
Second, why not take on the doubters head on instead of barring them access? Even political scoundrels don't resort to this. Now maybe Armstrong doesn't have to talk to Kimmage but he needs to convince a lot of skeptics in Europe.
I agree with taking on the doubters, but that's his call, not ours.
I disagree that he "needs to convince a lot of skeptics in Europe". Convince them of what?
I doubt he can convince anyone of anything about himself that they haven't got firmly in their minds already. Love him, hate him, or don't care, but I doubt he can change too many peoples minds.
Dennis Noward0
