Armstrong flees antidoping test
Comments
-
Most pro cyclists at the top of their game are more than well educated on what is going on around them in their circles and their opponents.0
-
From conversations with ex-pro riders, pretty well everyone in the bunch knows who is getting assistance and who isn't - most of these guys have been racing together since juniors and therefore are able to compare relative performances for year after year - when a rider goes from mid-packer to race-winner in a season suspicions are aroused - it's very unusual for a rider to become a champion at pro level without having great results as a junior. Looking back on GT results prior to the early 90's, the incidence of 'slow-developers' in the pro-ranks was unheard of.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
-
Spot on.0
-
I think some juniors fade and others bloom later on. But by the time they are 20-23, many can tell of they are grand tour contenders. Suddenly blossoming into a race winner well into your pro career, a la Riis or Rominger, well, it isn't magic.
I know several riders were raising enormous question marks during the Giro about some riders. Eventually Sella and Ricco got busted but several other names remain untouched, you could say untouchable or even unaccontable (sic), not to mention tiny teams suddenly turning up Pro Tour wins, eg Tinkoff.0 -
Money Money Money.0
-
Subluxator wrote:Your basically proving Lance's point. From your post, even if he doesn't test positive he is positive because he and only he has a magic way of defeating the testers. I wasn't implying that I would be fine if Lance starts with Catlin 2 weeks beore the tour..my point was, when it gets to July and you can look back and see that yes, they got the testing going in January, then everyone should feel fine with that. It's not the UCI, i'm sure they don't have testers all over the world to test Lance whenver they want.
The problem with the Catlin thing is to most people here it would be utterly meaningless anyway. Cynicism runs rings around the claims of CSC, Colombia, Astana and Garmin with regards to the internal testing among fans here and elsewhere. There have been many arguments to its actual moral and scientific worth with the UCI and Anne Gripper's blood passport the only meaningful baseline testing regime worth considering.
Which all makes it pretty hilarious that those who have the least faith in these internal tests are some of the loudest critcising Armstrong for not starting his promised regime with Catlin - a regime which it could be argued would have even less validity with Armstrong effectively the "team owner" and rider.Subluxator wrote:I'm not blindly defending him, but I can't convict someone with out evidence or jump to conclusions months ahead of time. And, like I said before, who reported this missed test? Why is Cyclingnews, or Velonews not reporting it? I haven't seen a quote from Catlin on one of these reputable sites. All the Lance haters just want to hang him and need no proof to do so.
I think the thread consensus was that he hasn't missed one - he's not even come to an agreement yet. It was a poor translation of the original Spanish article which was an op-ed piece criticising him for not starting his work with Catlin and "running away from Catlin and his testers" to train in Tenerife with Astana.
It's now just a badly titled thread with some very interesting discussion within.0 -
Subluxator wrote:Intelligence of the riders, and people in general is a completely different topic. There is a large majority of people that think just because a drug is given to them by their doctor that it must be good for them. They make zero effort to educate themselves on the fact that any foriegn substance put into the human body has a negative affect, some significantly more than others. This however, has nothing to do with the topic of doping. Nothing I or anyone can do about peoples lack of IQ.
+10 -
While i agree that internal test arent really that great, the fact that Armstrong was beating his chest in Las Vegas about how Catlin would be doing all the talking regarding if he was clean or not and he still hasnt had one test from him is extremely damaging. If Armstrong was serious about it, everything would have been in place weeks after the annoucement not months. I would be very intrested to know the reason why Armstrong is avoiding ( which is what his doing it cant take this long to organise) the Catlin thing.Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.0
-
stagehopper wrote:What's laughable about this is we've hit 5 pages based on a badly translated article from a flea-bitten Spanish tabloid with no quotes or facts. It reads more like an op-ed piece than a news article.
There are a huge amount of questions to be asked and answered regarding Armstrong and Caitlin, but there's absolutely nothing in that article of frippery let alone substance.
They are not fleas, they are misquotez0 -
richard wants a baum wrote:While i agree that internal test arent really that great, the fact that Armstrong was beating his chest in Las Vegas about how Catlin would be doing all the talking regarding if he was clean or not and he still hasnt had one test from him is extremely damaging. If Armstrong was serious about it, everything would have been in place weeks after the annoucement not months. I would be very intrested to know the reason why Armstrong is avoiding ( which is what his doing it cant take this long to organise) the Catlin thing.
A fat guy from this forum posed a very similar question to him recently.
He did not like it and got in a strop.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I started this thread in humour, relying on the poor google translation to make a humorous point. Sadly the underlying story isn't funny.
On 24 September, Armstrong announced details of his comeback and one of the key points was a collaborative plan with antidoping expert Don Catlin. So far we've had the windtunnel, the training camps, the press releases but more than 100 days later, nothing about Catlin. Let's hope we get some news soon.0 -
Armstrong impresses Carmichael prior to Tour Down Under
Chris Carmichael is impressed with Lance Armstrong's improvement following a three and a half year break from professional cycling. The American is training the seven-time Tour de France winner for his comeback that starts this month in Australia at the Tour Down Under, 20 to 25.
"The progress I am observing is equal to what he had before retiring," Carmichael said to La Gazzetta dello Sport.
Carmichael first noticed the American at the 1989 Junior World Championships in Moscow. He helped Armstrong to win the Tour de France from 1999 to 2005. Armstrong retired after the 2005 edition, but announced his comeback this last fall.
"At first he thought he would not be in acceptable form for the first races. He will continue to train in Australia because he is still at the start of the road leading to the Tour de France [July 4 to 26 - ed.]."
Carmichael arrived in Hawaii this week to meet Armstrong. He is training on the American Island prior to the Tour Down Under. (GB)
So, if Carmichael can have such easy and regular access, to monitor LA's progress, why can't Catlin? No wonder he courts so much cynicism."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Carmichael works with Armstrong, Catlin has other interests so may not have the same amount of time....simple0
-
Tempestas wrote:Carmichael works with Armstrong, Catlin has other interests so may not have the same amount of time....simple
Didn't Columbia sign up with Catlin AFTER Armstrong made his announcement? If Don has time to test 30-odd Columbians (plus the girls?) I'm sure he could squeeze in LA - especially if LA asked first...___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
I think the point is that if Armstrong can fit Carmichael in - in Hawaii - he sure could fit in Catlin especially as he announced to the world that he would be doing so as a top priority in order to show that he was being transparent, clean etc etc0
-
Not only speculation but the same for both men. I guess Carmichael has more to gain from his relationship with Armstrong.0
-
Carmichael has worked with Armstrong for years, is probably a friend so has a lot more time for him, he probably makes time for him. Whereas Catlin is a new person on the scene who has other full time work commitments, he is far less likely to drop everything to test someone who has already been tested a lot as per his agreement to return to racing. I think (yes speculation, but what isn’t when LA is concerned) Catlin will be more on the scene after the 6 month period is up, he will then take on a more focused testing programme to continue to monitor any irregularities in his blood.0
-
Carmichael has made a truck load of dollars from his association, so yes I would expect him to rush to Armstrong if the Texan even wanted someone to clean his bike.
As for Catlin, we can speculate as to why there's nothing so far but that's not the point, surely it's inexcusable that there's not even been a check-up or a single test? Indeed, there's not even an agreement in place.
Let's just hope it's a matter of time, I'd hate to think he'd shirk away from on a key promise made on the day of his comeback press conference.0 -
Kléber wrote:I started this thread in humour, relying on the poor google translation to make a humorous point. Sadly the underlying story isn't funny.
On 24 September, Armstrong announced details of his comeback and one of the key points was a collaborative plan with antidoping expert Don Catlin. So far we've had the windtunnel, the training camps, the press releases but more than 100 days later, nothing about Catlin. Let's hope we get some news soon.
This and some other recent posts have made me chuckle.
Personally all I need are the windtunnel shots. This proves to me that winning is mostly about how you sit on a bike, and the the continous twitter updates show just how much riding is being done. Catlin should save it as a favourite on his desktop.
And Blazing Saddles post on the other thread about USPS/Disco disappearing up the road en masse. Funny.
I think the best we can hope for is a relatively level playing field amongst the GC contenders and their teams so that the above scenario doesn't happen, but I suspect it probably will.
I wish Contador was riding for a different team.
*edited for spelling0 -
Kléber wrote:Carmichael has made a truck load of dollars from his association, so yes I would expect him to rush to Armstrong if the Texan even wanted someone to clean his bike.
As for Catlin, we can speculate as to why there's nothing so far but that's not the point, surely it's inexcusable that there's not even been a check-up or a single test? Indeed, there's not even an agreement in place.
Let's just hope it's a matter of time, I'd hate to think he'd shirk away from on a key promise made on the day of his comeback press conference.
I am sure he said the Catlin thing would be in place around the time of the start of the Tdu, so far he hasn't broken that promise and yet again people are unhappy with him.....some people cannot win0 -
Could it be that Armstrong went steaming ahead with his PR machine,wheeling out Catlin in Las Vegas,before he'd even cleared it with Astana? Who if I'm right are footing the bill?
Odd that in the interview they are keen to make out that Lance is not taking a penny in wages from Astana,but they are paying for his testing with Catlin? I wonder if Astana knew anything about the testing with Catlin and that's why he's not been tested yet?0 -
so many paranoid people...
pro cyclists don't have the time to thinks so much :? ... believe me an active person rather trains, than speculate or philosophy... :roll:
PEOPLE GO OUT AND GET A LIFE!!!!
0 -
Exactly Belokki! Armstrong trains, he plays golf, he recovers and even tells of of the films he watches whilst he resting via Twitter.
No need for him to worry about all the other things, because he has a manager and others around him to make sponsorship agreements, handle his PR and arrange other matters, like fixing a deal with Catlin. Like I say, it's been over three months but let's hope something begins soon.0 -
The problem with not putting anything in place until his season begins is that, if he aims to win hearts and minds, any well informed fan knows that most 'preparation' takes place in the off season. To start testing at the TdU becomes, in effect, meaningless and simply a PR stunt.
Tempestas, do you have a link to the assertion that the testing won't start before January?0 -
Micron
He did indeed say that when Catlin did an interview and said no testing or agreement was in place.
but when do all anti-doping guru's do the bulk of their tests? Yep, out of competition and out of season...Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
micron wrote:The problem with not putting anything in place until his season begins is that, if he aims to win hearts and minds, any well informed fan knows that most 'preparation' takes place in the off season. To start testing at the TdU becomes, in effect, meaningless and simply a PR stunt.
Tempestas, do you have a link to the assertion that the testing won't start before January?
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/a ... ding-19505
Is where I read it0 -
Thanks for the link, Tempestas.
So what does Catlin use to establish his baselines?0
