Winter turbo sessions???
Comments
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a tester is a time trialist, i guess gets the name as you test yourself against the clock?0
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thanks ozzzy0
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wheeler585 wrote:I see no point at all riding at 70%, it sounds high but have you actually put a hrm on and tried this?? .... I appreciate that everyone has there own standard of riding, but come on i think 70% is a bit of a nothing ride.
Yes I do use a HRM
In fact I'm a bit surprised that you turbo fiends haven't told me to use a power meter instead
So you believe that a hour at 70% has no value at all in maintaining or increasing fitness?
What if I didn't have any other chance to ride for 10 days or more and my only opportunity was going on the turbo? I am saying that this is a good way to stop you loosing fitness entirely.
I suppose you'd say I should do 3 x 10 85% intervals and a warm up. Thing is if you aren't doing that regularly, it will hurt. And even though you have plenty of time to recover it is only the one session. So would it in fact be any better than the "do nothing" 70%?? Really, significantly better? For a pretty much one off? Remember most weekends I will be doing a 4 hour ride on the road. Probably "junk miles" to you but I kinda like it.0 -
Vorsprung. Clearly everyones situation is different and if you're not riding for 10 days at a time it might be better than nothing, but that doesn't square with your 4 hour weekend rides. My initial answer was to your comment that it was 'utterly tedious' which made me wonder why you bothered. You'd be better mixing it up with a few high cadence or one legged drills for example and that why you'd help your fittness and not end up dead. This is a training forum afterall, where people seek advice................ 0
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70% is at the top end of L2 endurance? not much training benefit at all, but good for the soul to get out and just enjoy riding and taking in the scenery. My favourite rides include noodling around in this zone, especially after a hard day..
I'd never do it on a turbo tho - mind numbingly dull!!--
Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com0 -
inseine wrote:Vorsprung. Clearly everyones situation is different and if you're not riding for 10 days at a time it might be better than nothing, but that doesn't square with your 4 hour weekend rides. My initial answer was to your comment that it was 'utterly tedious' which made me wonder why you bothered. You'd be better mixing it up with a few high cadence or one legged drills for example and that why you'd help your fitness and not end up dead. This is a training forum afterall, where people seek advice................
Quite so! And I'm always open to suggestions
At the moment I am finding it easy to fit in enough riding to keep me ticking over, even if I am busy at the weekends. I have a nice commute this year.
I'm glad you are concerned that I avoid tedium. The thing is if I am substituting a 4 hour road ride for a turbo session it is not a good fit. I do not do super fast 4 hour rides. I would spend a lot of the time at less than 70%. But there would be hills and fast bits to raise the effort overall. It would take a lot of dedication for anyone to ride like that on a turbo for 4 hours.0 -
It seems to me that we should ride for pleasure or for training and if we're lucky, for both! You clearly enjoy the Sunday rides so great, whereas the turbo sessions risk being neither and you'll end up stale and no fitter. Good luck whatever you do, but enjoy, we're not doing this for a living!0
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On the turbo sessions you should make best use of your time to prevent boredom. You should not have time to get bored....sprint for 30 seconds...1 minute rest...rinse and repeat till you fall over!
I have started doing this for my 1 hour training rides in the gym.
after 1 minute I will sprint for 20 seconds....I will allow myself a 40 second rest and then sprint again for 20 seconds. I wil keep doing this for 10 minutes or so. I will then increase the time between intervals to 1 minute but also increase the exertion time to 30 seconds. I can keep doing this until 25 minutes and then I am dead and I will just maintain a decent power output until 10 minutes from the end where I start the intervals again. At this point it is 30 seconds sprint and then 30 seconds cool down.....at this point the power in the legs is totally sapped and I have nothing left to give....but I have not found myself thinking "this is boring, I want to go home"!!... I stagger off the bike and then relax in the steam room and jacuzzi for a little while (30 mins) to recover and then I am fine after that.
I know it seems like hard work but I don't see the point unless I am dying by the end.17 Stone down to 12.5 now raring to get back on the bike!0 -
fuzzynavel wrote:On the turbo sessions you should make best use of your time to prevent boredom. You should not have time to get bored....sprint for 30 seconds...1 minute rest...rinse and repeat till you fall over!
I have started doing this for my 1 hour training rides in the gym.
after 1 minute I will sprint for 20 seconds....I will allow myself a 40 second rest and then sprint again for 20 seconds. I wil keep doing this for 10 minutes or so. I will then increase the time between intervals to 1 minute but also increase the exertion time to 30 seconds. I can keep doing this until 25 minutes and then I am dead and I will just maintain a decent power output until 10 minutes from the end where I start the intervals again. At this point it is 30 seconds sprint and then 30 seconds cool down.....at this point the power in the legs is totally sapped and I have nothing left to give....but I have not found myself thinking "this is boring, I want to go home"!!... I stagger off the bike and then relax in the steam room and jacuzzi for a little while (30 mins) to recover and then I am fine after that.
I know it seems like hard work but I don't see the point unless I am dying by the end.
I have to say I'm sorry but that sounds really unexciting! On a serious note, does this kind of interval training have that much benefit for TTing? Alex?0 -
While the efforts are short and when done hard are usually predominantly anaerobic in nature, in the end such a workout will be predominantly stressing the aerobic system (since our anaerobic work capacity is limited). It also provides a neuromuscular twist (all the accelerations), so from that perspective it does help to improve fitness.SteveR_100Milers wrote:I have to say I'm sorry but that sounds really unexciting! On a serious note, does this kind of interval training have that much benefit for TTing? Alex?
However it is not a workout that is specific to TTing. Would be of more benefit to crit racer perhaps.
But I don't think fuzzy said anything about what the workout was for other than a hard workout he personally finds motivating.
I think of more benefit for TTing is a hard tempo or straight out efforts at a sustained TT pace.
Whatever floats your boat.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
While the efforts are short and when done hard are usually predominantly anaerobic in nature, in the end such a workout will be predominantly stressing the aerobic system (since our anaerobic work capacity is limited). It also provides a neuromuscular twist (all the accelerations), so from that perspective it does help to improve fitness.SteveR_100Milers wrote:I have to say I'm sorry but that sounds really unexciting! On a serious note, does this kind of interval training have that much benefit for TTing? Alex?
However it is not a workout that is specific to TTing. Would be of more benefit to crit racer perhaps.
But I don't think fuzzy said anything about what the workout was for other than a hard workout he personally finds motivating.
I think of more benefit for TTing is a hard tempo or straight out efforts at a sustained TT pace.
Whatever floats your boat.
As Alex said, I didn't mention the purpose of the rides. I am mainly working for general fitness and weight loss at the moment. I started doing 1 hour sessions at a level of exertion that I perceived to be near my maximum and keeping it roughly constant for the whole hour. I then noticed that when I was out on my 50 mile Saturday ride I would get really knackered after any sort of exertion (such as a hill climb) and have to back off for a minute or two while I recovered. This is why I am working myself to exhaustion with intervals in a bid to improve the phase after I have pushed myself.
I am not training for TT'ing at the moment but it may well be something that I have a go at once I have shifted some more weight.
In regards to the motivation aspect of the ride, everyone will be different....I like to just stick some music on and let my mind float away....staring at four walls isn't too much of an issue for me currently as it is all still relatively new (only been training since August) I am too busy watching my power jumping around to care about what is around me. Sometimes I will watch a football match or a movie while I train and that helps to stop the boredom and ignore the pain.17 Stone down to 12.5 now raring to get back on the bike!0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
While the efforts are short and when done hard are usually predominantly anaerobic in nature, in the end such a workout will be predominantly stressing the aerobic system (since our anaerobic work capacity is limited). It also provides a neuromuscular twist (all the accelerations), so from that perspective it does help to improve fitness.SteveR_100Milers wrote:I have to say I'm sorry but that sounds really unexciting! On a serious note, does this kind of interval training have that much benefit for TTing? Alex?
However it is not a workout that is specific to TTing. Would be of more benefit to crit racer perhaps.
But I don't think fuzzy said anything about what the workout was for other than a hard workout he personally finds motivating.
I think of more benefit for TTing is a hard tempo or straight out efforts at a sustained TT pace.
Whatever floats your boat.
Which is what I had assumed too. Which is what I struggle with most of all. I did a 40 minute session tonight, and basically varied it all the way through, but try tpo keep a high tempo for as long as possible in order to et maximum TT benefit. I noticed that at *normal* cadences, and similar to those that I wold feel comfortable at when TTing, the musuclar pain is higher than when I gridn away at 60 rpm in the biggest gear I have. My HR is also at least 5bpm highr at lower cadences, and since my speed is roughly the same, my power output must be too.
Yet, interestingly, I see the opposite on the road - mashing a huge gear is far less comfortable than spinning at 100 rpm, and my HR is higher when spinning. I do wonder if it is all simply a subjective thing, or whether its the reaction to the difference between momentum effect of road riding compared to minmal momentum when using the turbo....0 -
I wouldn't discount either. Indoor v outdoor power variance is not unusual and the low inertia trainer is harder to ride and adapt to.SteveR_100Milers wrote:I do wonder if it is all simply a subjective thing, or whether its the reaction to the difference between momentum effect of road riding compared to minmal momentum when using the turbo....
Which is why I generally recommend people look for a decent sized flywheel on their turbos.
The primary reasons why indoor power can be much harder to sustain that outdoor riding include:
- insufficient adaptation time to the trainer
- lack of adequate cooling
- low inertia of system
- motivation0 -
I totally agree with this especially if you are intending to make good use of you're turbo sessions, a thunderbird 7 comes to mindAlex_Simmons/RST wrote:I generally recommend people look for a decent sized flywheel on their turbos.
but for the rest of us the KK pro is not too shabby.
A 200 watt fan (or two) can make a huge differrence to turbo training tolerance in my experience nearly as much as motivation IMHO.Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:The primary reasons why indoor power can be much harder to sustain that outdoor riding include:
- insufficient adaptation time to the trainer
- lack of adequate cooling
- low inertia of system
- motivation0
