Maybe a daft question but... Are Sportives actually races?

shy tot

Look at the entry form for the Polka Dot - "Spud" Riley Gran Fondo on the website:
www.polkadotchallenge.co.uk
The form makes it quite clear that the event is not a race, and all riders sign to indicate that they accept this. The event is simply a challenging bike ride, where the object is to cover the selected distance in the alloted time.
Couldn't be clearer.
We introduced this paragraph as many riders now talk about entering, or riding, "the race", and if anyone falling foul of the law mentions that they are taking part in a race, we have their signature on an entry form and the signing on sheet, to disprove their claim.

nasahapley

shy tot wrote:

Look at the entry form for the Polka Dot - "Spud" Riley Gran Fondo on the website:
www.polkadotchallenge.co.uk
The form makes it quite clear that the event is not a race, and all riders sign to indicate that they accept this. The event is simply a challenging bike ride, where the object is to cover the selected distance in the alloted time.
Couldn't be clearer.
We introduced this paragraph as many riders now talk about entering, or riding, "the race", and if anyone falling foul of the law mentions that they are taking part in a race, we have their signature on an entry form and the signing on sheet, to disprove their claim.

Having such clauses on an entry form is undoubtedly a good idea, as it would be useful evidence when trying to persuade a court that a sportive is not a race, but I think the point I and others were trying to make is still being missed. The legal definition (i.e. the only one that really matters) of a 'bicycle race' is contained within the Cycle Racing on the Highway Regulations 1960. A 'time trial' is defined quite specifically, and then a 'bicycle race' is defined as being 'any other race or trial of speed which is not a time trial...'. This is arguably quite a wide definition, and crucially you cannot 'contract out' of this definition. An agreement between the organiser and the competitors that a sportive is not a 'race' doesn't by itself make it so, and neither would every person who's come onto this thread saying that 'a sportive is not a race' repeating that in court; if an event is held to fall within this definition then it is a 'race'. The signed forms would help to make the case that it isn't, but there is also a fair amount of evidence to suggest that it is, such as the reckless riding that wildmoustache refers to (which I've also seen a lot of, and I've only done 1 sportive!), and the publication of results.

I think the question 'if it's not a race, as defined in the Regulations, then why the dangerous riding and why the publication of results?' would be a fairly tricky one to answer, but by no means impossible. However, I also think that if results were not published, it would be very hard to show that it was a race, and any instances of reckless riding would be seen as purely matters for the individuals concerned.

Let me make myself perfectly clear. I do not think sportives are races, and I certainly don't want a court to find that they are. All I'm saying is that having tried to take an objective view and having considered the relevant law, it's a greyer area than I'd feel comfortable with if I were an organiser of such an event.

rjeffroy

The original French meaning of Cyclosportive definitely implies that the event is a race (mass start, published results etc). My £0.02: if an event isn't a race then it isn't a sportive and shouldn't be described as such. I'm all for trying to get the law changed so that real sportives are possible here, but in the meantime we should use some other term such as 'Challenge Ride' to avoid confusion.

FJS

rjeffroy wrote:

The original French meaning of Cyclosportive definitely implies that the event is a race (mass start, published results etc). My £0.02: if an event isn't a race then it isn't a sportive and shouldn't be described as such. I'm all for trying to get the law changed so that real sportives are possible here, but in the meantime we should use some other term such as 'Challenge Ride' to avoid confusion.

+1!

If so many people treat UK 'cyclosportives' as races it seems there is a 'market' for one or two competitive French-style sportives in the UK, with mass start (without mass start you've got a TT) and probably closed roads.
Could someone explain what current (national) law would prohibit that here, or do you simply mean local authority permission and general public goodwill (enough of a challenge)?

bahzob

rjeffroy wrote:

The original French meaning of Cyclosportive definitely implies that the event is a race (mass start, published results etc). My £0.02: if an event isn't a race then it isn't a sportive and shouldn't be described as such. I'm all for trying to get the law changed so that real sportives are possible here, but in the meantime we should use some other term such as 'Challenge Ride' to avoid confusion.

Add another tuppence. French Cyclosportives are very definitely races and its impossible to imagine them taking place here.

Did the Vaujany as an initiation last year. First half hour was interesting...averaged 50kph (honest) going down a road that, in theory, was still open for traffic. Practice was that massive bunch went down both sides of the carriageway and cars just got out of the way. Pure adrenaline rush but I was pretty pleased when we hit the first climb and things quietened down a bit.

Kléber

rjeffroy wrote:

The original French meaning of Cyclosportive definitely implies that the event is a race (mass start, published results etc). My £0.02: if an event isn't a race then it isn't a sportive and shouldn't be described as such. I'm all for trying to get the law changed so that real sportives are possible here, but in the meantime we should use some other term such as 'Challenge Ride' to avoid confusion.

+2