Maybe a daft question but... Are Sportives actually races?
Comments
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In my experience most people ride to beat their personal target. I think that without the timing, most people would just go on club or solo rides.
Having said never again 2 years ago when i did the Fred Whitton in 7hours 53 mins, I now find myself revving up to try and get under 7hours 30mins.
To me they are competitive events, but the competition is against oneself.
Its the same thing that gets most club runners doing marathons.0 -
SBezza wrote:The worst thing I can see about sportives is having the Gold, Silver and Bronze standard times, I have raced around trying to get a Gold time before, but if there was no incentive like this, I would have gone slower riding with another club member, and probably not suffered so much, and still had a good time
I have done sportives where the timing is by human and watch, and the results published a week later, for larger numbers of people a timing chip is probably easier for the organiser I would imagine. If some people are racing within the event (and this even happens in things like fun runs), then no-one can really stop then, some people are very competitive. I would imagine most of the time it is club mates trying to beat each other.
If you get large numbers of people doing the same event, you will get people trying to beat other people.
Agree with all this; I believe I've heard it said 'get two cyclists going in the same direction and you've got a race'; it's difficult to see how you could ever stop competitive types trying to outdo one another in events such as sportives. However, there's a difference between knowing some people may be having their own private races within an event and actively facilitating (if not encouraging) that racing, which it could be argued is what an organiser is doing by providing official timing and publishing results. If it is the case that the 'competition' in a sportive is with oneself (and that's what all organisers will tell you), then these things don't add really anything to the event, and make it easier to argue that a sportive is in fact (or more to the point, in law) a race.0 -
What some people seem to be missing is that the timing chips are not only used to give the riders a time, but by organisers to keep a check on who and where riders are on the route.
To be truly honest this is what persuaded me to have them this year, as because it is a charity event I was going to drop them so more money could go to the charity.
But then I had a rethink and decided that they give me an excellent way to ensure all riders are accounted for. Not a big deal for most riders I know, but very useful to us organisers.
Nick, I've ridden a good few FWC's, my first in 7:45. Then I returned each year to try to better my times - my own personal challenge. Majority of the time I was (charity) sponsored too, so had an added incentive. Think my best was 7:10, so I'll be doing it again one year to break 7 hours.
As for publishing results, they do not have to be put in order.<b>Event Website:</b> http://www.whiteroseclassic.co.uk0 -
Booboocp,
It's especially interesting to hear your opinion on this as an organiser of an event (and one which I may well take part in, given it starts about 200 yards from my front door!) Of course using a timing system for purely organisational/safety purposes is never going to cause a problem, in fact I'm sure anyone would commended you for doing so. Obviously if it's your event it's your call, but if I were organising one I don't think I'd publish results at all; as I said before if the idea of a sportive is to challenge yourself then I don't really see the point. Obviously the publishing of results in itself does will make an event a 'race', but it would make it that little bit harder to argue that it wasn't (and I don't think the technicality that they weren't published in order would make much difference tbh).
Anyhow, here's hoping the question of whether a sportive is a race never actually gets raised in court!0 -
Doesn't help when The Adventure Show on Beeb 2 presented the Ullapool challenge very much as a race with a major concentration on the top 3 finishers.
Surely the answer to the 'is it a race?' question is whether riders act on the road as if it is. I would argue that simply trying to complete the route as fast as you can does not mean it is a race. Surely, in a race you are trying to beat other people. If you have a staggered start most people will not know whether the people on the road with them are beating them or not... Therefore you will not actually get people trying to make breaks or use tactics against the guy next to them etc. The reason why races need special regulations is because of 'racing behaviour' ie they will be concentrating more on the riders around them than on the road. On any organised event some people will try to get round as quickly as possible. I don't see that setting standards would make them behave any differently.0 -
And also they will stop timing on marathons, fun runs etc. The fact times are published doesn't make it a race, there is no prizes for coming first, or recognition of the fact, everyone gets a cetificate/medal for completing the challenge, and than is all it is a challenge, no matter how you actually carry out that challenge.
Just as an after thought, the London to Brighton event, is not a race, and yet quite a few people get injured each year doing it, and it no doubt causes mayhem along the route, and that still hasn't any issues of worries about court action. Fair enough results are not published, but some people still treat it as a race, should this have a race status as well, just because of a few individuals who can't accept the difference of a sportive and a race.0 -
Booboocp wrote:What some people seem to be missing is that the timing chips are not only used to give the riders a time, but by organisers to keep a check on who and where riders are on the route.
Not missing it Derek, can clearly see why you'd want that, but that's 'another use' for them, not what they're designed for.
They are 'timing chips' - used for timing ! And the production of results...
There's no way you could get riders to use them, for you to know who was still out on the course, and yet you could get away without publishing times, there'd be an uproar.
I thought British Cycling's recommendation was that they are put in surname order ? A number of sportives do this.Booboocp wrote:As for publishing results, they do not have to be put in order.
But it's hardly a problem, it's seconds-worth of effort to copy/paste into Excel and re-order...
As long as you publish results for all entrants, you're publishing comparative results.
If instead you had to enter your name or number and got your own result only, then you could argue that you were only able to compare your own time against your own target. Even if you could enter your mate's name and get his result too, OK you could see if you ere quicker or slower than him, but that's not allowing you to say I came 123rd out of 678 in 'that race'.
Knowing that you took 7:28 against your target of 7:30 you could do with your own bike computer and no need for any organiser's results at all...0 -
the comment on stopping timing for marathons is missing the point a bit with all due respect. marathons are races. they explicitly are races. they are discussed as races with the police and the roads are often closed for them.
on the charity ride appearance of sportifs ... that may well be so towards the derrier, but up-front there are some seriously fit gentlemen on expensive looking bicycles with carbon wheels and so on, riding through and off at high speed, in professional kit. Surely that looks race like? I agree that generally what people think it looks like willl not be relevant, though conceivably could be if someone acted on the basis that he /she thought there was a race on.0 -
Oh Yes...I think a good few events are very much race orientated...this year on the FWC...I was heading along the A66 towards Keswick....when suddenly a group of 'super riders' passed...not only that they were chaperoned by a small Car with a Flashing Beacon...to warn other Cars off....now this was most definately Rob Jebb and James Dobbins etc....and I know Wheelbase were working as a Team for Rob Jebb....and around a week later in many Cycling Websites I seen big article with Rob Jebb and James Dobbins 'racing' up Hardknott Pass...then other photos with bot guys holding an award from the event?....not that it bothers me one bit....I applaud the guys abilities...but surely this is a race to some?...and surely the fastest times are getting 'winner' status?
Only thing that bothers me about guys 'going for a time' is when they put others in danger with foolish riding....2 years ago when descending Honister Pass a total idiot overtook me when a car was approaching and I had to brake so hard as the guy swerved right into me trying to miss the car...for what?...a few bloody seconds? Yes. go for a perosnal best...but do it with care eh?0 -
RICHYBOYcp wrote:Oh Yes...I think a good few events are very much race orientated...this year on the FWC...I was heading along the A66 towards Keswick....when suddenly a group of 'super riders' passed...not only that they were chaperoned by a small Car with a Flashing Beacon...to warn other Cars off....now this was most definately Rob Jebb and James Dobbins etc....and I know Wheelbase were working as a Team for Rob Jebb....and around a week later in many Cycling Websites I seen big article with Rob Jebb and James Dobbins 'racing' up Hardknott Pass...then other photos with bot guys holding an award from the event?....not that it bothers me one bit....I applaud the guys abilities...but surely this is a race to some?...and surely the fastest times are getting 'winner' status?
Only thing that bothers me about guys 'going for a time' is when they put others in danger with foolish riding....2 years ago when descending Honister Pass a total idiot overtook me when a car was approaching and I had to brake so hard as the guy swerved right into me trying to miss the car...for what?...a few bloody seconds? Yes. go for a perosnal best...but do it with care eh?
That is pretty unambiguous evidence you have there richyboy. The truth is that the increased attention on sportifs has attracted more race-orientated individuals.
As a counter (or maybe not), I was doing the Tour of Wessex last year and my little gruppetto actually overtook an official BCF race! We weren't racing of course.0 -
The problem is that we live in an age where everything has to be cut and dried, precisely defined and then buried under heaps of regulations. This divides everyone into those who might sue, and those who are frightened of being sued.
For me its one of the joys of sportives that they can be so many things to so many people.
Remove the 'competitive' element completely, and you will end up with a watered down audax or club run.
Sadly I know that there are always fears that someone might sue and so backs have to be covered and disclaimers uttered.
I always think that the Fred Whitton is a glorious throwback to a more relaxed, less encumbered age.
People might tut about the 'race' going on at the front, but I suspect that a large majority of participants are trying to ride as quickly as they can. For some that is survival, for others it is a time of under 6 hours.
I don't know the answer to the problem, but we are faced with a delicate balancing act. One way we could lose the events all together, and the other way they could become so emasculated as to lose all credibility and the fun factor that draws us to them again and again!0 -
SBezza wrote:And also they will stop timing on marathons, fun runs etc. The fact times are published doesn't make it a race, there is no prizes for coming first, or recognition of the fact, everyone gets a cetificate/medal for completing the challenge, and than is all it is a challenge, no matter how you actually carry out that challenge.
Just as an after thought, the London to Brighton event, is not a race, and yet quite a few people get injured each year doing it, and it no doubt causes mayhem along the route, and that still hasn't any issues of worries about court action. Fair enough results are not published, but some people still treat it as a race, should this have a race status as well, just because of a few individuals who can't accept the difference of a sportive and a race.
No they won't stop timing on marathons or fun runs, because these are running events and thus subject to different legal requirements from cycling events, any comparison between them is largely irrelevant. I don't know if there even is a legal distinction between a proper running 'race' or something like a fun run, but there definitely is in cycling, and we really don't want sportives in their current form to be deemed to be 'races'. As Andy_wrx says below, British Cycling are wise to this problem and have recommended that results are not published in time order. Like Andy, I don't think this technicality would, if it came down to it, save a sportive from coming within the legal definition of a cycle 'race'.
As to whether the London-Brighton should be classified as a race, you seem to miss my point. I don't think it should be, just as I don't think any sportive should be either. The fact that L-B doesn't publish results is, IMO, rather telling, as it would be easy enough to do. The problem for sportives is that they generally aren't established events (unlike L-B), the entries are made up pretty much exclusively of serious cyclists (unlike L-B), a fair few of whom will also race, and there is a lot of what could be called 'racing behaviour' going on, especially amongst the faster riders. I certainly don't want sportives to be classified as races, I'm just saying I wouldn't like to have to make the legal argument to the contrary.0 -
Are we looking at a problem that doesn’t exist? Has any organiser been reprimanded by the Police or Local Authority for the way an event is run? The event is run on the public highway and the rules of the road must be observed by the entrants; if an individual rides in a reckless manor then it is not the fault of the organiser. A time trial is a competition (not race)on the public highway and the event regulations stipulate the rules of the road must be adhered to, no head down behaviour - competitors must watch where they are going; time trials have been running for years in this way. The same can apply to sportive rides, take away the time/results sheet and why would the majority of people pay X amount of pounds to ride round the countryside they can ride around for free? I can time myself on a ride and see any improvements with nothing more technical than a wrist watch; I enter a sportive to gauge myself against others.0
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Sorry for this very continental European angle, but what about actually facilitating that tendency to competitiveness, and close some roads?
(formulated as a dumb question on purpose... more an observation that this isn't even mentioned as an option; still getting used to thinking from a marginalised position as cyclist. Sorry to interrupt).0 -
In a nutshell no in the UK sportives are not races and probably never will be, unlike on the continent where they are races with prize money.
On the continent they are run more like the marathons with elite/faster riders/teams with early numbers starting at front of a massed start.
This year I was in the front gorup on the Pinarello Gran Fondo and a group of about 80 slipped away including several pro's and the UK Pinarello team, this was a race!! 35mph av at start for several miles on flat , I was ok until a crash which I avoided but popped out mt rear qr and wheel!!
In the UK it is not massed start and usually set off in groups so how can it be a race?
It is more of a challenge ride for riders of all abilities and unless it has similar starts to continent cannot be a race.
The fact you can have a timing chip and standards just adds a motivating factor for individuals to achieve personal goals but those times cannot be of any use at all for measuring against each other. How can it, you would have to be in the same start group as the persons your measuring yourself against.
I did one uk sportive this year and did the entire 220 km alone(ok except fo 10km at start and a couple in the middle towing a couple of guys) and at the end met a group of riders I know who rode around together and they seemed pleased they "beat " my time as I had dropped them in a "real" race previously
Obviously it is easier to get a fast time riding as I group than an individual and even start times and conditions would have an effect.
As I said it is a personal challenge and goal.
In all fairness, the majority of riders I have seen treat it as such and the only ones I see treating it as a race tend to be "wanabee" racers who do not race at all
It is a shame we do not get real massed start events on rolling road closures like they do on continent because then it would be easier as the ones who want to go fast as possible end up close to the fron in first few miles and the field is sort of self regulated leaving the non racing cyclists to go at their own pace in safety behind still looking to achieve their own goals.
Anyone who really wants to race should enter a real race on road or track and not a sportive.
Anyway it is getting a tad too expensive to use them as a race if done regularly
I just do the odd one for a bit of fun, change of scenary, bit of endurance training and just to have a bit of a laugh and ride with some other riders (fast and slow)0 -
wildmoustache wrote:RICHYBOYcp wrote:Oh Yes...I think a good few events are very much race orientated...this year on the FWC...I was heading along the A66 towards Keswick....when suddenly a group of 'super riders' passed...not only that they were chaperoned by a small Car with a Flashing Beacon...to warn other Cars off....now this was most definately Rob Jebb and James Dobbins etc....and I know Wheelbase were working as a Team for Rob Jebb....and around a week later in many Cycling Websites I seen big article with Rob Jebb and James Dobbins 'racing' up Hardknott Pass...then other photos with bot guys holding an award from the event?....not that it bothers me one bit....I applaud the guys abilities...but surely this is a race to some?...and surely the fastest times are getting 'winner' status?
Only thing that bothers me about guys 'going for a time' is when they put others in danger with foolish riding....2 years ago when descending Honister Pass a total idiot overtook me when a car was approaching and I had to brake so hard as the guy swerved right into me trying to miss the car...for what?...a few bloody seconds? Yes. go for a perosnal best...but do it with care eh?
That is pretty unambiguous evidence you have there richyboy. The truth is that the increased attention on sportifs has attracted more race-orientated individuals.
As a counter (or maybe not), I was doing the Tour of Wessex last year and my little gruppetto actually overtook an official BCF race! We weren't racing of course.
Presumably the dropped riders of a race?
Surely if it was a "real" race under bcf control as an experienced rider you should not have passed them as it could have caused aproblem with the race? Unless they were tail enders just toddling back to HQ of course
By the way, I have done sportives on a top end bike with pro kit on and did through and off, I don't see an issue with sharing the work ona long ride where possible? Part of the fun fi you can do it as most sportives generally break up groups due to the number of hills and different standards. Another reason why it is not really a race 0 -
The point is not whether you find it a race, but whether it is being taken as a race by others. The same goes for the Gran Fondo Pinarello or Marmotte, most will be riding to complete the route or just enjoy the route but some do race.
This has implications for organisers, because if the event is not a race, they have to take reasonable steps to make sure their role does not egg the riders on. So no podiums or placings, but it gets awkward when you award gold or silver standards and set time goals.0 -
Kléber wrote:The point is not whether you find it a race, but whether it is being taken as a race by others. The same goes for the Gran Fondo Pinarello or Marmotte, most will be riding to complete the route or just enjoy the route but some do race.
This has implications for organisers, because if the event is not a race, they have to take reasonable steps to make sure their role does not egg the riders on. So no podiums or placings, but it gets awkward when you award gold or silver standards and set time goals.
Gold and silver standards don't encourage racing, but do encourage people to chase individual goals. I wish more events used this method as it would provide an extra level of excitement, particularly if age related.0 -
Nickwill wrote:Gold and silver standards don't encourage racing, but do encourage people to chase individual goals. I wish more events used this method as it would provide an extra level of excitement, particularly if age related.
Which is why as an organiser I use them and have nine separate age categories, Gold, Silver & Bronze standards and three route distances.
http://www.whiterosechallenge.co.uk<b>Event Website:</b> http://www.whiteroseclassic.co.uk0 -
Kléber wrote:The point is not whether you find it a race, but whether it is being taken as a race by others.
Exactly !
There are a number of posters on here saying that a sportive isn't a race, that they know it's not a race, that the organisers say it isn't a race and so on.
Look, I agree with you, it is not a race - technically
But to any outside observer (like motorists, houseowners, etc you meet on the route), it is a race.
There are 500 or 1000 riders, on what the public think of as 'racing bikes', wearing what the public will think of as 'racing kit' (club or team-replica jerseys), with numbers on the front of theri bikes - to an outsider, this is 'a race'.
And to quite a few of the riders, it's 'a race'.
There have been many posts on here and other forums from riders talking about sportives as 'races'
It's alright talking about them as 'wannabe racers', in fact it's probably very accurate, this probably is exactly what they are - they've read the articles in Cycling Weakly hyping them up as 'epic rides', similar articles in C+, and on cyclosport.co.uk
They may be newbies to cycling, may not be members of clubs and so may unused to riding in groups, highly probably have never done a 'real' race but they refer to it as 'a race' and treat it as such - or more accurately, since they've never done a race, they ride like they've seen the pros ride on TV coverage of the Tour...
On sportives I've been passed on a blind bend by a chaingang of riders, only to round the corner and come face to face with a farmer in a Land Rover with a trailerful of sheep, who was forced into a ditch to avoid hitting them.
I was sworn at on on another sportive when I 'got in someone's way' by stopping for a red traffic light.
Wasn't there a reader's letter in C+ a month or so ago about a rider shouting and banging on the side of a van because it was holding him up in a sportive ?
These guys treat it as 'a race' and the Highway Code goes out of the window as soon as it's a sportive - riding safely on blind country lanes, looking and giving way at Give Ways, stopping at red lights, etc.
They're going for a time, using those timing chips and published on the website, and all this wastes that time
It might not technically be a race, but some riders ride bl**dy dangerously because they think it's a race, and are seen to be riding bl**dy dangerously by the general public who think it's a race.
There will be an accident sooner or later. Statistically, it's bound to happen.
I'm just afraid in case some paper starts some campaign against lycra road-louts racing on the road and the whole sportive thing gets clamped-down on.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:wildmoustache wrote:RICHYBOYcp wrote:Oh Yes...I think a good few events are very much race orientated...this year on the FWC...I was heading along the A66 towards Keswick....when suddenly a group of 'super riders' passed...not only that they were chaperoned by a small Car with a Flashing Beacon...to warn other Cars off....now this was most definately Rob Jebb and James Dobbins etc....and I know Wheelbase were working as a Team for Rob Jebb....and around a week later in many Cycling Websites I seen big article with Rob Jebb and James Dobbins 'racing' up Hardknott Pass...then other photos with bot guys holding an award from the event?....not that it bothers me one bit....I applaud the guys abilities...but surely this is a race to some?...and surely the fastest times are getting 'winner' status?
Only thing that bothers me about guys 'going for a time' is when they put others in danger with foolish riding....2 years ago when descending Honister Pass a total idiot overtook me when a car was approaching and I had to brake so hard as the guy swerved right into me trying to miss the car...for what?...a few bloody seconds? Yes. go for a perosnal best...but do it with care eh?
That is pretty unambiguous evidence you have there richyboy. The truth is that the increased attention on sportifs has attracted more race-orientated individuals.
As a counter (or maybe not), I was doing the Tour of Wessex last year and my little gruppetto actually overtook an official BCF race! We weren't racing of course.
Presumably the dropped riders of a race?
Surely if it was a "real" race under bcf control as an experienced rider you should not have passed them as it could have caused aproblem with the race? Unless they were tail enders just toddling back to HQ of course
By the way, I have done sportives on a top end bike with pro kit on and did through and off, I don't see an issue with sharing the work ona long ride where possible? Part of the fun fi you can do it as most sportives generally break up groups due to the number of hills and different standards. Another reason why it is not really a race
The racers just weren't holding a candle to us sportif guys you know!
No ... it was a genuine race. I think it was vets and some cat 4s thrown in actually, but they were none to pleased at the spectacle of a group of passing sportif pilots.0 -
An interesting thread which has had me wasting away a few minutes at work :oops:
As a complete newbie (due to take part in my first sportives in March), my initial target is to see what I am capable of completing the various course in time-wise, as opposed to "racing" per se......although if I am able to see a rider ahead my natural sporting instinct is to try and push myself to catch them and then move on to catching the next.....(but to clarify - this is me using other riders as a motivational tool to get me to push myself as opposed to racing them and I certainly would not do so by illegal road manoveures)
However, it has prompted a related question - what events are clearly labelled / marketed etc as races (on closed roads?) and would be available to someone like myself (experience wise)?0 -
sportbilly1976 wrote:An interesting thread which has had me wasting away a few minutes at work :oops:
As a complete newbie (due to take part in my first sportives in March), my initial target is to see what I am capable of completing the various course in time-wise, as opposed to "racing" per se......although if I am able to see a rider ahead my natural sporting instinct is to try and push myself to catch them and then move on to catching the next.....(but to clarify - this is me using other riders as a motivational tool to get me to push myself as opposed to racing them and I certainly would not do so by illegal road manoveures)
However, it has prompted a related question - what events are clearly labelled / marketed etc as races (on closed roads?) and would be available to someone like myself (experience wise)?
closed roads in the UK? scottish etape and that is about it ... unless you are talking about criterium racing where there are a very few non-elite events on closed roads.0 -
Kleber.
There is a big difference between continental and UK sportives, and the continental ones are classed as races with prizes awarded, teams race etc, very similar to marathons with elites to the front and tourists behind.
I also believe there is a bif difference between thinking it is a race and racing and going as fast as you can to do a good time.
I do not believe there a many that think or treat it as a race, but most do try to go well to get a good time or achieve a gold standard, but IMO that does not mean they treat it as a race.
To me a race is easily defined:
A group of riders participating in an organised event (bcf,lvrc or other) all starting together with the first over the line being the winner
I do not see this in any UK sportive, or should I say I have not seen it personally.
I do not really care what the public or car drivers think it is. When I ride, whether in a sportive or training ride, I ride as though I am invisible to other road users especially on roundabouts and junctions to try to stay safe.
SOme races are better as they have a lead car and outriders but even then you have to be careful as some drivers even ignore police marshalls !!
As I said I do not seeUK sportives going down the same route as continental ones as the UK public are not the same as continental unfortunately.0 -
Oldwelshman,
The point is it doesn't matter how you define a race or whether you or I think a sportive is a race or not, the question that needs to be borne in mind is how a court would see it if the point were to arise. As LeighB points out, it hasn't yet, but in my line of work we call this the 'not dead yet' argument - thinking because something hasn't been a problem 'til now it never will be. It's not difficult to see how the question would arise - rider in a big, fast moving group goes off-line and collides with a pedestrian causing them injury, pedestrian claims against the organiser's public liability insurance, insurer investigates and decides actually, it won't pay up because it believes what was going on was a 'race' which isn't covered by the policy.
I don't think the fact that everyone doesn't have start at the same time would automatically make the case for sportives not being a race - I know in the FWC there were very large groups setting off together and treating it as a race in all but name (see Richyboy's post above). The fact that there may have been many more sensible, sedate riders setting off earlier isn't likely to overly impress a court, which has to consider public safety, when someone gets whacked by a group rider doing 30 on the wrong side of the road. Common sense might dictate that if the organiser tells participants that it isn't a race, and that they must obey the rules of the road, then any such wayward riders aren't their responsibility. Unfortunately (for organisers and sportifs alike) the law just doesn't work like that, and so as I said before, if an organiser says it isn't a race but lays on everything necessary for riders to treat it like one if they so wish, they might just find themselves in trouble.0 -
nasahapley wrote:........................, if an organiser says it isn't a race but lays on everything necessary for riders to treat it like one if they so wish, they might just find themselves in trouble.
The post above is the most sensible take on what a sportive is, that I've seen-and the section I've quoted horribly prescient, though of course, yet to be proved
Here is my Xmas wish. For road cycling in general and hence sportives to be welcomed by all sectors of the population, so there isn't likely to be the confrontational outcome between the different road users
What a pleasure in the Iron Mountain Sportive last year, to be welcomed at Abergavenny more or less by the whole town, and to be swept round the roundabouts coming back into town at the end, by police, who gave the cyclists the right of way
We need to get kids riding bikes to school for a variety of reasons. It's not the cars that are dangerous, its the drivers, and we need a change of mindset. This will only happen when speed limits are 20mph in villages, there is road furniture to slow motorists caused by a change of attitude AND law in favour more fair mixed road use.
Then and only then, can we look at "racing" on roads in the UK
In France, sportives are treated as races, and are of course insured (because of the questions you complete on entering) I believe France has never had the same draconian laws on mass start cycling events that we have here (which of course caused a huge schism in cycling after WW2)“It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best..." Ernest Hemingway0 -
Na:
The OP asked if a sportive is a race, the answer is no it's not, thats it
I think it is better that way so if people want to race, they get a license and do so with the appropriate organisation and set up for a race, a sportive no where near meets the saftey requirements for safety and they do not claim to.
Then sportive can be for what they were originally set out for, a ride for all abiloities to have the chance to ride good routes, well marked with mechanical support and feed stations and generally a fun event (does not mean you cannot ride hard though)
Ken, your right about the Abergavenny event. I think that atmosphere has come about due to the good support the Town has had with racing in last few years, including Premier Calander events, but also with lots of supporting events for lesser categories, fun rides, kids rides etc so the twon and the area and it people all benefit so support and welcome the sportive more enthusiastically.
The Dragon last year and year before also had it to some extent with cars even stopping on large motorway roundabouts/exits to let groups through, and lots of cheering from locals.
I think along the route and in some towns there they now realise the income the event can generate there and they like to see lots of fit cyclists going past in tight shorts 8)
Its a pity the dragon could not do a similar thing as the Abergavenny festival to support lots of other events.0 -
Well said oldwelsh, a sportive is not a race. The likes of Rob Jebb, and most racing lads treat sportives as a good hard training ride, race up the climbs and wait for there mates then off again. If you think they are races, its just means youve never done one.ding dang do0
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Well said oldwelsh, a sportive is not a race. The likes of Rob Jebb, and most racing lads treat sportives as a good hard training ride, race up the climbs and wait for there mates then off again. If you think they are races, its just means youve never done one. :roll:ding dang do0
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angelic upstart wrote:Well said oldwelsh, a sportive is not a race. The likes of Rob Jebb, and most racing lads treat sportives as a good hard training ride, race up the climbs and wait for there mates then off again. If you think they are races, its just means youve never done one. :roll:
You've missed the point-I didn't say I thought sportives are races. They are notnasahapley wrote:, if an organiser says it isn't a race but lays on everything necessary for riders to treat it like one if they so wish, they might just find themselves in trouble.
It's how they will be viewed legally when something happens to challenge the basis of a sportive“It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best..." Ernest Hemingway0
