Respect to the Haka

secretsqirrel

Just reading the BBC Website:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7750284.stm

I thought the Welsh response last Saturday made for dramatic viewing see video.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7745706.stm

Seems to have caused some controversy, I wonder how the English should respond on Saturday?

A Morris Dance maybe?

Anonymous

I was there and the atmosphere was superb, the sound was amazing!

God help england this weekend.

singlespeedexplosif

I'd go for the laughing and pointing approach, personally. What the hell do they think they look like?

redddraggon

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

I'd go for the laughing and pointing approach, personally. What the hell do they think they look like?

Show any disrepect to the haka and you might end up like O'Driscoll did at the 2005 lions...

singlespeedexplosif

Show any disrepect to the haka and you might end up like O'Driscoll did at the 2005 lions...

?

Stewie Griffin

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

Show any disrepect to the haka and you might end up like O'Driscoll did at the 2005 lions...

?

They speared him.

Never understood why one team is allowed to whip themselves up into a frenzy with a war dance while the other side are expected to respectfully stand still. What I would love to see a team do would be to stand still in a lovely line, then as soon as they start poncing about just jog toward the other end of the pitch and continue warming up. Or, just walk around behind them. David Campese practised his goalkicking years ago when they started sounding like Chef from the Muppets. "diba de diba de bordey boredy". Whatever, get over yourselves. Did the redcoats wait for them to perform a silly dance on the beach before colonising them?

Hear hear
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... rugbyunion

Bronzie

SecretSqirrel wrote:

I wonder how the English should respond on Saturday?

Sh*t themselves and then lose the match is the most likely answer :roll:

Anonymous

It's a great spectacle. Bronzie, you're right there!

Road Red

Stewie Griffin wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

Show any disrepect to the haka and you might end up like O'Driscoll did at the 2005 lions...

?

They speared him.

Never understood why one team is allowed to whip themselves up into a frenzy with a war dance while the other side are expected to respectfully stand still. What I would love to see a team do would be to stand still in a lovely line, then as soon as they start poncing about just jog toward the other end of the pitch and continue warming up. Or, just walk around behind them. David Campese practised his goalkicking years ago when they started sounding like Chef from the Muppets. "diba de diba de bordey boredy". Whatever, get over yourselves. Did the redcoats wait for them to perform a silly dance on the beach before colonising them?

Hear hear
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... rugbyunion

llanelli tried that many years ago when they stayed behind the goal line while the ABs lined up on the half way line. The ABs just followed them down to the goal line and did it in front of them!

Best to do what Willie Anderson and Ireland did around the same time, linked arms facing them, when the haka started Willie started moving towards the ABs and ended up nose to nose with Buck Shelford. Wilie was leading an Irish chant of 'You're not going to beat us'. Unfortunately they did! But it made for a great athmosphere and the Irish were wound up like springs and tore strips out of the ABs for 20 minutes.

Ieuanllan

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Never understood why one team is allowed to whip themselves up into a frenzy with a war dance while the other side are expected to respectfully stand still.

A few of the other south sea nations do similar things to the haka, but I must agree that the All Blacks are taking it to a new level of performance art, and it's getting a bit long winded and silly.
Having said that, I felt mortally ashamed of the WRU when they banned the kiwis from doing it before a test against wales a couple of seasons ago - their reason, "Wales gets the last word before the kick off" sounded do lame!
And we got owned!

Good on wales for making them back down last weekend I think, shame we lost straight after. :oops:

spen666

England should come out with sticks with bells on and hankerchiefs and do a morris dance as the all Blacks do their dance

Ieuanllan

Now a morris dance, that would be funny. Take the opposition off their guard as well?

afx237vi

The haka is a good spectacle, but it really gets on my nerves how the All Blacks are so bloody precious about it. Let's face it, only a few of them are true Maoris. The rest are silly white blokes doing a jig.

It's the equivalent of the Irish doing a Riverdance.

As Stewie says, why should they be allowed to intimidate the opposition before kick off, but then get all pissy when Wales (their hosts!) have the audacity to want to issue a response? The haka in the changing rooms two years ago was absolutely pathetic.

I wouldn't care if the haka was banned (plus all the Pacific Island ones). It's a rugby match, not a performing arts festival.

chriskempton

afx237vi wrote:

The haka is a good spectacle, but it really gets on my nerves how the All Blacks are so bloody precious about it. Let's face it, only a few of them are true Maoris. The rest are silly white blokes doing a jig.

It's the equivalent of the Irish doing a Riverdance.

As Stewie says, why should they be allowed to intimidate the opposition before kick off, but then get all pissy when Wales (their hosts!) have the audacity to want to issue a response? The haka in the changing rooms two years ago was absolutely pathetic.

I wouldn't care if the haka was banned (plus all the Pacific Island ones). It's a rugby match, not a performing arts festival.

Hear hear. I used to work with a kiwi who got VERY uppity when I commented on the haka being relevant only to Maoris. He didn't explain it very well but seemed to be saying that his own national identity was encapsulated within the haka. Bit weird from a descendant of a scotsman who presumably didn't take much notice of the haka when he first saw it.

Tempestas

England’s response should be like this, it's the ancient Friday night Stella dance down the local pub....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DRzaWfaeAHQ

So you think you know Haka.....?

redddraggon

I'd hate to see the Haka banned or not performed. It's one of those things that makes playing the All Blacks so special. I don't see why it so offends anyone.

I went to see Wales v New Zealand in 2004 and 2005 and both times the Haka was one of the things I was looking forward to see.

I don't care if people think the Haka is a "silly little dance", I think it's something special. It's just one of those great openings to a sporting event, just like the Everton team always running out to the Z Cars theme tune at Goodison Park.

Eau Rouge

Four of the Munster team that played them are from New Zealand, and so did their own Haka before the main one at Thomond Park. Almost worked too.

I think England should perhaps be a little more concerned about their own game, rather than worrying about what the opposition are doing before the kick off.

STEFANOS4784

Not a fan of rugby really but the haka makes it more interesting and it would be more interesting still should the opposing teams make some sort of retort, gunning them down in a flurry of musketfire springs to mind.......................


*joke* :P

secretsqirrel

redddraggon wrote:

I'd hate to see the Haka banned or not performed. It's one of those things that makes playing the All Blacks so special. I don't see why it so offends anyone.

I went to see Wales v New Zealand in 2004 and 2005 and both times the Haka was one of the things I was looking forward to see.

I don't care if people think the Haka is a "silly little dance", I think it's something special. It's just one of those great openings to a sporting event, just like the Everton team always running out to the Z Cars theme tune at Goodison Park.

I agree Redddragon. The Haka is a long standing ritual associated with the sport, just like lighting the olympic flame, singing national anthems and Contador's 'pistol firing' (well that one already feels like long-standing already ) and as such adds colour.
I think that Graham Henry is hamming it up to suggest that the Welsh response was disrespectful. The instigator of the standoff was almost certainly Warren Gatland (NZ). I think that the problem for the All Blacks was that they didn't know what to do during that long uncomfortable silence and were therefore embarrassed :oops: .

It may have caused the poor start they had in the first half.

They got over it though..........

ddraver

The Welsh just can't let the Haka die can they

It just started to look rather pathetic for an independant watcher - The WRU seem to be intent on doing any little niggly thing that will annoy/intimidate the opposistion and the hake gets right up their noses cos they can't just do one back! (it was nt even the real haka anyway!!)

Leve it as it is, its fantastic!!!

Somehow I suspect my bike may becoem a particularly inviting proposistion this weekend though, Luckily is was flying back from holiday this weekend so i missed the english mauling (thats as in tiger mauling....)

GEPC

I don't really buy the 'its part of our cultural heritage' thing at all. Its pure intimidation.
Before the All Blacks realised what a powerful psychological and marketing tool it was the white men in the all Blacks team used to perform it with looks of total embarassment on their faces. The modern All Black team is also mostly made up of the best players from the Pacific Islands so if it was all about cultural heritage the maoris would do the haka, the various Fijians and Samoans in the team would do their respective dances and the white blokes would stand around watching.

I do agree that it makes a great spectacle, but psychologically it is all about having the last word and that's why Wales refused to walk away at the weekend. They wanted the All Blacks to turn away first and they did, so credit to the Welsh for that. I thought it was the best treatment of it I can remember seeing since they stopped allowing them to get eye ball to eye ball. As I understand it the haka in the dressing room debacle a couple of years ago was about New Zealand throwing the toys not Wales. As I said, its all about having he last word and I gather all Wales said was that given that it was a home game after the Haka the crowd would sing land of our fathers. That's not such a bad thing is it?Kiwis do a dance, the welsh crowd sings well. It was the kiwis who objected and said if they wanted to to it that way they would do their dance on their own. Fine in my opinion. They don't have a god given right to do it and they shouldn't get to dictate the rules around it when they are the guests of another nation. At home they can do what they want.

This weekend I think the England team should play it cool. Any way we look at it a beating will be coming our way. We are the only home nations team to have recorded more than an occasional win over them but this isn't going to be an upset.

As an England supporter who will be there on satuday all I can hope is that the mighty All Blacks keep choking come the world cup to give the likes of us a chance of lifting the trophy.

davelakers

SecretSqirrel wrote:

Just reading the BBC Website:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7750284.stm

I thought the Welsh response last Saturday made for dramatic viewing see video.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7745706.stm

Seems to have caused some controversy, I wonder how the English should respond on Saturday?

A Morris Dance maybe?

Spine tingling..........

I would love to witness the Haka live, its part of the theatre of sport.

And the Welsh response was 1st class..

Still glad the ABs won though, Im a Kiwi at heart and love everything about that country!!

campagone

What exactly were the Welsh, or any other nation for that matter, supposed to do when the haka takes place? Cower and bow down? Start shaking? Run away?
To stand there and stare at them was showing respect in my opinion. Its just a shame the All Blacks won.

whyamihere

campagone wrote:

What exactly were the Welsh, or any other nation for that matter, supposed to do when the haka takes place? Cower and bow down? Start shaking? Run away?
To stand there and stare at them was showing respect in my opinion. Its just a shame the All Blacks won.

The controversy was over what happened after the haka, not during. The teams faced off against each other, and the Welsh refused to turn around to get ready for the game until the ABs had backed off first. I thought it was great...

dbb

yes, let's get rid of the Haka and other traditions as well. for a start - why sing sweet chariot. that is not necesary.

afx237vi

whyamihere wrote:

campagone wrote:

What exactly were the Welsh, or any other nation for that matter, supposed to do when the haka takes place? Cower and bow down? Start shaking? Run away?
To stand there and stare at them was showing respect in my opinion. Its just a shame the All Blacks won.

The controversy was over what happened after the haka, not during. The teams faced off against each other, and the Welsh refused to turn around to get ready for the game until the ABs had backed off first. I thought it was great...

But why is that controversial? Ma'a Nonu says:

The haka is a war dance. If you're going to stand there like that then in the past people would have charged, but it's a rugby match and you can't do that.

"People back home will have been hurt by what they decided to do. Standing in the way like they did is asking for a fight.

So the haka is a war dance, but when the opposition stands their ground and "asks for a fight" the All Blacks start moaning about "disrepect" and New Zealanders back home getting offended?! Double standards or what?

Like I said in my earlier post, the haka is a great spectacle. It's not the haka I object to, per se, it's the All Blacks' attitude towards it and their constant whinging about disrespect. They think they have a god given right to whatever they want before a rugby match, even when they're playing abroad.

edhornby

couldn't agree more afx

"The haka is a war dance. .... but it's a rugby match..."

so you have every right to do a dance and we have every right not to give a toss

or....

we do the haka back at them ? only badly...

ddraver

I reckon to most teams it provides just as much of a psyche (sp?) up to the opposistion as it does to the All Blacks - eg the French in the previous World Cup

Whenever i play rugby, if someone screams or gives me lip (common for an Englishman playiong in North Wales) I just hit them harder the next tackle....

Aggieboy

I actually like seeing the Haka,but if the opposing team don't want to face it then why don't they simply go back into the changing room and let NZ get on with it by themselves?

Rearrange this well known phrase - to a rag red bull!

Jokull

afx237vi wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

campagone wrote:

What exactly were the Welsh, or any other nation for that matter, supposed to do when the haka takes place? Cower and bow down? Start shaking? Run away?
To stand there and stare at them was showing respect in my opinion. Its just a shame the All Blacks won.

The controversy was over what happened after the haka, not during. The teams faced off against each other, and the Welsh refused to turn around to get ready for the game until the ABs had backed off first. I thought it was great...

But why is that controversial? Ma'a Nonu says:

The haka is a war dance. If you're going to stand there like that then in the past people would have charged, but it's a rugby match and you can't do that.

"People back home will have been hurt by what they decided to do. Standing in the way like they did is asking for a fight.

So the haka is a war dance, but when the opposition stands their ground and "asks for a fight" the All Blacks start moaning about "disrepect" and New Zealanders back home getting offended?! Double standards or what?

Like I said in my earlier post, the haka is a great spectacle. It's not the haka I object to, per se, it's the All Blacks' attitude towards it and their constant whinging about disrespect. They think they have a god given right to whatever they want before a rugby match, even when they're playing abroad.

Yep, +1 to all that. If the haka is meant to intimidate, then the only reasonable response is to not be intimidated and intimidate back. Its difficult to see what moral high ground New Zealand think they're on.

pottssteve

I was at the NZ Australia match in HK last month - it's a great sight to see the haka.

It's descended from the Maori ceremony of greeting strangers. In the orininal a fern frond is laid on the ground and if picked up the visitor is a friend. However, since NZ also has a Maori squad, I'm not sure why the Pakeha side does it (although of course it contains Maori players).

NZ did struggle against Oz in the first half - very high humidity and some rain made the ball greasy and they were also kicking too long. However, second half was composed and solid. England must pray for 95% humidity, a bit of fog and the backs to be having a really off day if they are to stand a chance.
C'mon Aotearoa!