And the number 1 topic of discussion is... RLJing Cyclists!

pintoo

Thought you might enjoy this:
http://www.togetherforlondon.org/campaignLanding.php

biondino

That site is both twee and smug. Not a good combination.

However, tests have proven that rabid antisocial thugs, when faced with images of the kids from the "Love is..." cartoons wearing t-shirts with stupid sodding platitudes on them, become docile and pleasant. So good work, London Transport!

el_presidente

All the outraged posters are never hit - it is always "a cyclist nearly hit me" & "a cyclsit had to swerve to avoid me". I bet you that in 99% of these cases, the cyclist has gone behind the ped or cycled round them in a controlled manner. They will have thought "ooh, good old me, I gave that ped loads of room"

I had one yesterday. A middle-aged guy on a fairly nice hybrid with clippy pedals and good lights & gear. I had left him for dust round Regents Park then stopped to wait at a pelican crossing. He hurtled from behind me, did a huge loop into the opposite carriageway to go behind a ped and carried on his merry way. I could see he was in full control but I bet it didn't look that way to the ped on the crossing who will have seen a cyclist give him a foot or two of room at 15mph.

I honestly don't think these RLJing tossers realise the effect they have on peds & hence the genral perception of cyclists. I was very close to having a word with this idiot when I caught him up again but couldn't face it in the end.

Littigator

Equally annoying is the near miss ped. They see you coming, are itching to cross and as you pass they're already leaning over you ready to cross the millisecond you have passed.

It makes me flinch when people get that damn close to me, it really gets my goat!

lost_in_thought

I tend to have trouble with the on-road indecisive ped.

I know they're only trying to help, but at risk of sounding like the bionic woman, I have usually already mapped their trajectory and speed and adjusted mine accordingly, and would really rather they just carried on walking rather than stopping and considering turning back...

But i'm hesitant to shout at them - have tried shouting things like 'you're fine' or 'after you' but usually get just a look of fear - and they mean well!

What is a girl to do?

el_presidente

I give them the "head nod" when they are rabbit in the headlights and they usually scuttle onwards. This morning I did tell a guy who stepped out on me as I was filtering "LOOK FIRST" as I applied the brakes (was never any danger of hitting him, just meant I had to stop sharpish) but his witty rejoinder was "f*ck off"

CiB

Maybe it's different in that there London, but as far as I'm concerned RLs are a Give Way. I hear all the arguments about how RLJing gives drivers a stick to beat us with, but heck - the only lights I see are on a bridge over a railway line outside a village; wide enough for any vehicle + my roadie and good visibility all round. I'm not stopping, unless there's a juggernaut coming the other way and only then because we all might end up on the railway line 30 feet below.

Red Lights are a Give Way in my world, and I don't want to get killed nor do I want to hurt anyone else so I treat them like any other Give Way. If it's safe, go. If not, wait. Easy. I've had people in the office who've had to sit waiting have a half-hearted dig about me ignoring traffic laws, but I really don't care. In the car I stick close to the speed limits, and never jump amber let alone red. The two things are so different - car & bike - that there really isn't an argument for not allowing us [me?] to use my own judgment about waiting at the lights, and if some driver tuts to himself that's his problem not mine. He'll still pass me within 100 yards anyway, and I've not got in his way.

That's me barred then...

CiB

lost_in_thought wrote:

I tend to have trouble with the on-road indecisive ped.

I know they're only trying to help, but at risk of sounding like the bionic woman, I have usually already mapped their trajectory and speed and adjusted mine accordingly, and would really rather they just carried on walking rather than stopping and considering turning back...

But i'm hesitant to shout at them - have tried shouting things like 'you're fine' or 'after you' but usually get just a look of fear - and they mean well!

What is a girl to do?

I once had one do that. I was flying, late for work, on a busy ring road and this woman looked as if she was about to step out but she saw me and stopped, still on the kerb, then at the point of no return she stepped onto the crossing - only a zebra crossing, not a lights controlled affair. There was no chance of me stopping but in the time it took to make the decision that as she was standing rock solid in true scared rabbit fashion, I could easily slot in behind her - she was quite a way out. Except that she didn't stay still - she decided to move back onto the pavement just as I arrived in that very gap. What a bang. I hit her at quite some speed, both went down in a heap, I had a flat where I hit the kerb, and we ended up having an argument in the middle of the road. Dozy bint. Clearly my fault, as her b'f pointed out in quite some style the following morning when he sat waiting for me in his car. I often muse that you've never gt a shotgun to hand when you really need one.

bigmat

That's hilarious - BMW driver has to be kidding - and I quote:

"Myrtle- if we cleared the cyclists from the roads then there would be no issue. As an example I have been seriously delayed before due to a cyclist inconsiderately colliding with me when I was turning into a side road. The cyclist seemed to think that I should have waited for them before turning- and I was in my car!"

I wonder it was the same BMW driver that nearly take me out on Borough High Street last night - I was so incensed I charged him down and "inconsiderately" collided with his wing mirror at the next set of lights. We had words, the upshot of which is that he threatened to drive into me. I pointed out that he'd just nearly done that, which was why I was so p****d off. T****r.

Porgy

el_presidente wrote:

All the outraged posters are never hit - it is always "a cyclist nearly hit me" & "a cyclsit had to swerve to avoid me". I bet you that in 99% of these cases, the cyclist has gone behind the ped or cycled round them in a controlled manner. They will have thought "ooh, good old me, I gave that ped loads of room"

I've been stationary on cycle paths when there's been a ped walking on it, not paying any attention, then seen me and jumped a mile. I find it very amusing - but I suspect they walk away convinced that it was I that was in the wrong.

kevinharley

At the risk of being 'cast out' by the cycling community, I have much sympathy with ChrisInBicester ... bikes aren't the same as cars, and although they may (in law) be expected to comply with all the same traffic rules as cars, for all practical and pragmatic purposes, they are somewhere between pedestrians and cars. Peds use their judgement (sometimes!) about when it is safe to cross the road or proceed across junctions, whether at lights or in locations nowhere near lights; they are not breaking the law by crossing on 'a red', but exercising good (or poor) judgement. As a cyclist, I am able to give a situation much more awareness than a car-driver, and can judge whether or not it is safe (for me, and others) for me to proceed.

I think the reason why RLJing goes down so poorly is partly because some cyclists don't exercise good judgement, and see a red light as a 'green' light (rather than a 'give way' sign), and partly out of jealousy (it sticks in the throat, sat in a car, waiting in a queue of traffic, to see a cyclist sail past on their merry way). I think that, given the roads (and the practices of other road users) are often stacked against us, we should celebrate the small advantages that we do get.

Porgy

ChrisInBicester wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I Clearly my fault, as her b'f pointed out in quite some style the following morning when he sat waiting for me in his car. I often muse that you've never gt a shotgun to hand when you really need one.

Course it is you're a cyclist :roll:

To be on the safe side - after any kind of altercation like this I tend to vary my route for a few weeks.

bigmat

I agree with Kevin above in general re RLJ (I've been shot down in flames in previous threads) but it has to be said that ChrisinBicester running a zebra crossing when somebody was waiting to cross is pretty reprehensible. If I was the b/f 'd have been inclined to give him a kicking too (although I would have waited to see whether or not he was bigger than me!). I think judgment is the key and its sadly lacking in a lot of the cyclists I see on the daily commute, but even more lacking in the drivers who are a much bigger threat to the public at large.

snooks

Well I've just started one.....(it's waiting for approval at the mo though)

I'll give cyclists more room

We're all just trying to get somewhere, if drivers allowed cyclist more room when stationary or overtaking us, the road would be a better place. In return we'll say thank you by giving a wave of appreciation. Not all cyclist jump red lights, or ride on pavements, but part of the reason that some do is they feel unsafe on the road.

Short and sweet....now lets wait and see the comments!
.

biondino

SNOOKS U R A HIPPIE F****A YOU'RE SORT DESERVS TO GET SQUOSHED

The Chingford Skinhead

MatHammond wrote:

I agree with Kevin above in general re RLJ (I've been shot down in flames in previous threads) but it has to be said that ChrisinBicester running a zebra crossing when somebody was waiting to cross is pretty reprehensible. If I was the b/f 'd have been inclined to give him a kicking too (although I would have waited to see whether or not he was bigger than me!). I think judgment is the key and its sadly lacking in a lot of the cyclists I see on the daily commute, but even more lacking in the drivers who are a much bigger threat to the public at large.

+1. Sorry ChrisinBicester but when you said it was a zebra crossing and you'd seen her about to walk out then that was a sign for you to stop. You clearly had time to stop because as you say she had got quite a way across the road by the time you reached the crossing. That lack of "judgement" quite rightly upset her and her boyfriend and calls into question your point in the post before about using your judgement to give way. No point us moaning about motorists not seeing us as vulnerable road users when we don't see peds in the same way at crossings.

Damn, where's that finger shaking emoticon when you need it :roll:

CiB

Ok. For a start this incident happened about 18 years ago, so the details are sketchy now. It was at a crossing on a ring-road immediately after a decent sized roundabout. It may even have been light-controlled; it 's unusual now for a crossing in that position not to be.

My point was that this ped looked straight at me, was fully aware that I was coming at quite some speed and regardless of right or wrong - maybe the lights if they existed had changed by then, but I wasn't in a position to suddenly stop, she stepped out in front of me, then compounded her error by standing in slack-jawed surprise that I hadn't stood my bike on its front wheel to let her go, and then to cap it when I'd almost gone behind her she stepped back towards the kerb. Whether the lights were red or not or whether they existed isn't the argument - if I'd been on a moped, a small car, a big car, a truck or a juggernaut, she wouldn't have stepped out in front of on-coming traffic. But a bike - phah - it's only a bike, that's different. A bike can stop in three yards from 25mph obviously.

She hadn't got 'quite some way', she'd taken about two steps directly into my path.

All this is condensed into about 3 seconds - there's not much time to weigh up the options, and when she moved into where I'd pointed it there was only going to be one outcome, and it happened.

Just noticed the snide comment about bringing into question my judgment about give ways. Cobblers. The two things have no bearing. I treat a RL as a Give Way, which means stop, or come close to a stop, then proceed if safe. Some bint stepping out in front on a crossing regardless of the danger to herself is a completely different kettle of bark to fish up.

bigmat

Chris, sorry if I was in slightly self righteous mode yesterday - none of us are perfect and accidents do happen I guess. One every 18 years or so is probably fair enough.

alfablue

On the Zebra incident, I think the key is that she may have made eye contact with you - in the ped/cyclist transaction, that is tacit acceptance that you have seen her and will stop. I discourage people pulling out or walking out on me by making an exaggerated head down posture, whilst still sneakily looking ahead. (Not on zebra's I must add, it is only fair to expect them to walk out there).

Eat My Dust

el_presidente wrote:

All the outraged posters are never hit - it is always "a cyclist nearly hit me" & "a cyclsit had to swerve to avoid me". I bet you that in 99% of these cases, the cyclist has gone behind the ped or cycled round them in a controlled manner. They will have thought "ooh, good old me, I gave that ped loads of room"

Change "cyclist" for "car" and you could post this comment on a petrol head forum.

BoardinBob

What's the deal with the pedestrian crossing where as well as a green man they also have a green bicycle. Being fairly new to cycling on the road, I've seen loads of cyclists go through junctions using these, instead of waiting for the traffic lights.

Is this allowed/ acceptable? I wouldn't have thought so. Getting off and pushing the bike maybe, but not cycling through. :?

squired

Eat My Dust wrote:

el_presidente wrote:

All the outraged posters are never hit - it is always "a cyclist nearly hit me" & "a cyclsit had to swerve to avoid me". I bet you that in 99% of these cases, the cyclist has gone behind the ped or cycled round them in a controlled manner. They will have thought "ooh, good old me, I gave that ped loads of room"

Change "cyclist" for "car" and you could post this comment on a petrol head forum.

Ha - that reminds me of a news article on a local newspaper website about police catching two cyclists (one for jumping a red light and a 15 year old boy for riding on the pavement) in a 4 hour operation in my local area.

A car driver went on a big rant about cyclists, saying that the road would be safer if they followed the rules like everyone else. I re-posted his whole response, replacing cyclist with car driver, which caused him to call me a "typical arrogant cyclist". I did also point out that he couldn't say that cyclists should obey the rules "like everyone else", as presumably we would then be required to speed, use mobile phones, jump lights, etc. Another point I made was about how a similar operation looking at cars ended up with hundreds being caught in the same time period. Of course people like that are going to ignore whatever you say, so there is probably no point other than the fact you know it will wind them up a little more...!

alfablue

BoardinBob wrote:

What's the deal with the pedestrian crossing where as well as a green man they also have a green bicycle. Being fairly new to cycling on the road, I've seen loads of cyclists go through junctions using these, instead of waiting for the traffic lights.

Is this allowed/ acceptable? I wouldn't have thought so. Getting off and pushing the bike maybe, but not cycling through. :?

I think the green cycle light faces the pavement not the road, presumably where a cycle route crosses the road, if it were meant to allow cyclists on the road to go through it would face the road (or does it?).

salsarider79

"Myrtle- if we cleared the cyclists from the roads then there would be no issue. As an example I have been seriously delayed before due to a cyclist inconsiderately colliding with me when I was turning into a side road. The cyclist seemed to think that I should have waited for them before turning- and I was in my car!"

"Maybe I should have looked to see if anyone was there, maybe used one of my indicators? Well I would have, but I was in my car."

Does anyone else find BMWs never have indicators?

snooks

BoardinBob wrote:

What's the deal with the pedestrian crossing where as well as a green man they also have a green bicycle. Being fairly new to cycling on the road, I've seen loads of cyclists go through junctions using these, instead of waiting for the traffic lights.

Is this allowed/ acceptable? I wouldn't have thought so. Getting off and pushing the bike maybe, but not cycling through. :?

A ha! It's a toucan crossing...meaning.....wait for it...... two, can, cross, geddit???

25

Toucan crossings are light-controlled crossings which allow cyclists and pedestrians to share crossing space and cross at the same time. They are push-button operated. Pedestrians and cyclists will see the green signal together. Cyclists are permitted to ride across.[/i/]

From here :http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070108

The green cycle is for cyclists to cross from one side of the road to the other on a shared use path, not for cyclist to cross from one side of the crossing to the other....

snooks

salsarider79 wrote:

Does anyone else find BMWs never have indicators?

There have been many general recalls of all BMWs because their indicators never seem to work! Turns out the problem isn't with the cars at all :shock:

boybiker

Well.... maybe you should start your own campaign on why peds insist on treating cycle paths as foot paths, why drivers cannot see cyclists, why taxi drivers feel the need to try to run cyclists off the road etc and so on.

always_tyred

BoardinBob wrote:

What's the deal with the pedestrian crossing where as well as a green man they also have a green bicycle. Being fairly new to cycling on the road, I've seen loads of cyclists go through junctions using these, instead of waiting for the traffic lights.

Is this allowed/ acceptable? I wouldn't have thought so. Getting off and pushing the bike maybe, but not cycling through. :?

I would have thought it depends on the direction you are coming from. If you are going across them on the cycle route, yes (that's what they are there for), if you are waiting on the road, no. I doubt there would be serious objections to joining the cycle route, from the road, at that moment.

Getting off and walking? Well, you can do that anywhere.

Clever Pun

Littigator wrote:

Equally annoying is the near miss ped. They see you coming, are itching to cross and as you pass they're already leaning over you ready to cross the millisecond you have passed.

It makes me flinch when people get that damn close to me, it really gets my goat!

cause a standing ped would knock you backwards, the rest of us would knock them for six

Eat My Dust

How completely bizzarre. I just received this email:

Hi EMD
We're sorry to report that your comment posted under .Cyclists - obey red lights! has been removed.

It’s likely your comment wasn't appropriate. Please re-read our guidelines and feel free to contact us at enquire@tfl.gov.uk to find out how to get your profile up and running again.

Thanks,

The Together For London Team
"A little thought from each of us. A big difference for everyone"

There was nothing in my post that would be regarded as inappropriate. The harshest word I think I used was "idiot".

lost_in_thought

Eat My Dust wrote:

How completely bizzarre. I just received this email:

Hi EMD
We're sorry to report that your comment posted under .Cyclists - obey red lights! has been removed.

It’s likely your comment wasn't appropriate. Please re-read our guidelines and feel free to contact us at enquire@tfl.gov.uk to find out how to get your profile up and running again.

Thanks,

The Together For London Team
"A little thought from each of us. A big difference for everyone"

There was nothing in my post that would be regarded as inappropriate. The harshest word I think I used was "idiot".

Some idiot probably felt offended by it and flagged it as inappropriate.