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Spinervals - Any Good?

skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
edited November 2008 in Training, fitness and health
Looking at ways of livening up turbo sessions (3x1hr sessions per week) this winter, anyone using Spinervals DVDs? Any good?

Normally I just write the session I'm doing on a bit of paper and pin it up in the garage and then grind away without music or other distractrions. But this year will be different as I can't take any more of that! So any recommendations?

Posts

  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    I've been using the CycleOps/CTS dvds for a couple of years and would recommend them.. THe Power and Climbing ones especially. I'm no LA fan but those are really useful and explain WHY you're doing the work too.

    Or if you don't want that level of intensity yet i've been getting on with a threshold session that runs thus:

    5 min warm up
    10 mins tempo
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    10 mins tempo
    5 mins cool down

    This is where somebody comes on here and tells me that'll do nothing at all and i've wasted a month.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    I know what you mean! But thanks for the tip offs. I'll have a look at the DVDs. That sesson looks okay to me btw...but I'm no expert.
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    By the way, i'm doing that 3 times a week as you are mapping out your turbo sessions, with 2x 3 hour tempo/endurance rides at the weekends with Mondays and Fridays off.

    The good thing about my set up is I can put a non-training DVD on while i'm doing that session!
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    HOw will that session progress? Cutting the rest perhaps? I'm just thinking ahead to say January when I'm bored of it and I'm a bit fitter (hopefully)....
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    After 2x 3 week blocks of with a 5 day rest/recovery riding period between i'll break out the DVDs.

    SO after that my sessions will run thus

    Monday: Rest
    Tues: Power DVD
    Weds: Climbing DVD
    Thurs: Road Race DVD:

    ** All of these are at or above threshold workouts for an hour **

    Friday: Rest

    Saturday: 3 Hour tempo ride w/ 5 10 minute threshold intervals
    Sunday: As saturday.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • SunWuKongSunWuKong Posts: 364
    I quite like the spinervals. I have Aero Base 2 and Tough Love both of which I think are good workouts.
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    You seem to have a similar amount of time to train as I do and in similiar blocks. What sort of competitive riding do you do? I'm a glorified weekend warrior doing sportives and the odd club TT. Nothing special, but my training has always been a bit erm, wayward! I'd like to get my 10 and 25 times down this year and do the one hilly sportive properly.

    Then I'd like to return to the Marmotte in 2010 and do a proper job on that too. Essentialy I want to go faster on these damn things in future. I'm working out that this means THRESHOLD work and lots of it.
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    skavanagh: You look to be doing pretty similar stuff to me. I do Sportif riding, done 4 marmottes now, and road racing. Once the clocks go forward I tend to use the club TTs as training.

    So yeah, our form of training and time do look pretty similar.

    After februarys block (IE after 2x the block i'm on now and 2x the block i describe above) i'll be starting ot do intervals outdoors in the evening (largely high cadence/intensity stuff and hill intervals for Racing) and extending the weekend rides to 4, 5 and then 6 hours. You don't need to do rides this long... I placed 5th fastest on the Frd one year and got beat by my clubmate who never rides for longer than 3 hours.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Alex_Simmons/RSTAlex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Monday: Rest
    Tues: Power DVD
    Weds: Climbing DVD
    Thurs: Road Race DVD:

    ** All of these are at or above threshold workouts for an hour **
    Which threshold?
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • Alex_Simmons/RSTAlex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    I've been using the CycleOps/CTS dvds for a couple of years and would recommend them.. THe Power and Climbing ones especially. I'm no LA fan but those are really useful and explain WHY you're doing the work too.

    Or if you don't want that level of intensity yet i've been getting on with a threshold session that runs thus:

    5 min warm up
    10 mins tempo
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    10 mins tempo
    5 mins cool down

    This is where somebody comes on here and tells me that'll do nothing at all and i've wasted a month.
    Looks like a reasonable sweet spot session to me.
    I think the threshold would be better in longer contiguous blocks though.
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Aerobic threshold Alex. About 172-177pm i try to keep within.

    I used to do the same workout with just 1 20 minute interval, but i read that age old Les Woodland book and a couple of other bits and got the impression that the benefit was in the recovery and repetition within the session. This is as noted, the first few weeks of winter so i'm just trying to get something to build on.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Patrick1.0Patrick1.0 Posts: 290
    disgruntledgoat wrote:

    Or if you don't want that level of intensity yet i've been getting on with a threshold session that runs thus:

    5 min warm up
    10 mins tempo
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    3 minute recovery
    5 minute threshold interval
    10 mins tempo
    5 mins cool down

    This is where somebody comes on here and tells me that'll do nothing at all and i've wasted a month.


    No that's pretty good. I do a similar session:

    warm up for 5 minutes, gentle spinning.
    5 minutes hr between 165-180 - climbing up to 180.
    Recovery, hr back down to 115.
    5 minutes 165-180
    recovery, hr back down to 115.
    5 minutes 165-180
    recovery, hr back down to 115
    5 minutes 165-180
    recovery, hr back down to 115
    5 minutes 165-180
    5-10 minutes warm down.

    I sometimes do an easy ride on the roads before this session, depending on how I feel and mood etc. My recovery times are pretty shallow because my pulse tends to gallop back down to 115 even when spinning lightly after the first couple of efforts. Then the session takes hold a bit more and it doesn't get down to that as quickly.
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    That's what I find Patrick.. by the last interval i'm pushing a lower gear to stay within the zone and recovery takes longer.

    Which is the very definition of overload training is it not?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • damage36damage36 Posts: 282
    My HR won't go down to 115 unless I'm pedalling in between freewheels, or maybe go on the small ring of my triple and hope I don't encounter a downhill. Whats your 115 figure based on Patrick? My max HR is around 198-200 and my resting pulse is about 56.

    Cheers
    Legs, lungs and lycra.

    Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    damamge... everyone is different. I have a friend who can ride a reasonable size mountain pass at 3-5% gradient in the 120/130bpm range.

    For the record, i'm doing the tempo stuff between 140 and 165bpm
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Patrick1.0Patrick1.0 Posts: 290
    edited October 2008
    damage36 wrote:
    My HR won't go down to 115 unless I'm pedalling in between freewheels, or maybe go on the small ring of my triple and hope I don't encounter a downhill. Whats your 115 figure based on Patrick? My max HR is around 198-200 and my resting pulse is about 56.

    Cheers

    My max hr is about the same as that, damage. Between 199 and 201. My resting pulse varies depending on what training I've put in on the day before.

    Because I do it on the turbo, I have no problem just lightly spinning and allowing my pulse to drop. Because I sweat so much with that session, I have to drink lots in between efforts - one weakness of the turbo.

    I find I am recovered enough to do the next rep when my pulse drops back down to 115. Time in between is kind of not relevant because the most accurate way of indentifying when you can do the next rep is judging by your heart rate. That way I know I am not going too hard but also that I am not going too easy and that by the end of the session I will have worked as hard as I need to and no more. As we approach the season, I will switch to 10 minute efforts and eventually to 20 minute efforts (just three instead of 5) but that's not really stuff for the winter. It's just too hard to do all year round.

    Most of my work through the winter is long, hard hill work as I love the benefits that gives me more than anything else, pretty much.
  • Patrick1.0Patrick1.0 Posts: 290
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    That's what I find Patrick.. by the last interval i'm pushing a lower gear to stay within the zone and recovery takes longer.

    Which is the very definition of overload training is it not?

    That's right. I tend to spin a 53-15 at about 95-100 rpm for the first two/ three eforts and then I have to go to a 53-13 for the last one or two with a slightly lower cadence. That's when the bike starts wobbling a bit and the sweat starts going up the walls :lol: .
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    It takes a bit of control on the turbo getting the HR down (and up in fact) and you are right as the session goes on the variables keep changing, keeps you on your toes though.

    So Mr Goat hats off on the Fred. I hardly dare ask what you did the Marmotte in. I have to say I blew up on the Alpe and wobbled over the line in a horrible time. It took me 2.5 hrs to do the Alpe when I done it on a one off 5 years ago in 1hr 3 min. My FWC was 7.49 and that included blowing up on Hardknott. As you can probably see I've got two weaknesses there - threshold and endurance! Ha, not much then.

    However now I'm being forced to target my training properly I anticipate making some improvements this year focussing on threshold power and basically getting faster particularly over 25 miles. I don't intend to go back to the Marmotte and struggle again. If it's got to hurt (and it has) I'd rather it hurt in a faster time. First though, this year it's all about getting stronger and faster and making good use of 8 hrs training time.
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Ahh mate, i'm a shadow of me former self! This years Fred saw me blow BIG on Hardknott and come in at about 7:50.

    Marmotte times go from 8:06 to 8:45 over the years. and hour and 45 was the worst on the Alp. Just goes to show what happens if you neglect your training!
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Well, if that was me bang on form having trained like the clappers for a year I'd be astounded. I'm guessng my genes aren't mountain goat like eh?! Mate of mine did the Marmotte this year and did me for 20 mins overall but was an hour quicker on the Alpe. I reckon he's got more to give and would be capable of much more.
  • Dunedin397Dunedin397 Posts: 145
    I can recommend the Rick Kiddle and Carmichael Training System DVDs. I prefer the the Rick Kiddle DVDs, but there are a number of CTS DVDs covering different aspects, ie climbiing, tinme trialling, etc.

    Dunedin
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Thanks chaps.
  • bvduckbvduck Posts: 44
    i haven't tried the spinervals stuff, but it sounds like it might be worth a look. i'm compiling a list of spinning/indoor cycling podcast workouts at my site (www.thesufferfest.com) if anyone wants to have a look. i also couldn't be bothered to part with the cash for training dvds, so i made some of my own using iMovie and cutting in a bunch of old race video (think hinault in paris-roubaix), etc. - would love to know what you guys think of them (they're free). you can find them at the site at videopodcasts, or subscribe to "the sufferfest" in iTunes. takes awhile to download, but i hope you find it's worth it.
    cheers, david
    www.thesufferfest.com
    David McQuillen, Chief Suffering Officer
    http://www.thesufferfest.com
    @thesufferfest
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Thanks for that, I've had a poke around there and will continue to do so.
  • bobberheadbobberhead Posts: 2
    I have about 20 Spinervals and five CTS DVD,s - both are very good with the Spinervals being more high intensity, but I think thats based on the coach's views on the heart rate and power ranges - they seem to vary alot between the different coaching styles. I sometimes use a DVD as it is recorded and sometimes have one on and modify it depending what my training calls for on that particular day. Either way it is still a motivator to keep me on track when I'm on the trainer(Kurt Kinetic Road Machine Fluid Trainer).
  • skavanagh.bikeradarskavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    How is the Kurt Kinetic? I've got my eye on one for the new year....
  • bobberheadbobberhead Posts: 2
    I really like the Road Machine, use it alot. Fairly quiet, good resistence - it is heavy and not easy to take anywhere with you; also it is not as easy to attach your bike as the promotion for it says, but once attached it is steady and strong and has never leaked - I have an extra bike that I leave attached so it works good for me. One major disadvantage is that the handle used to adjust the tension for your tire is easily stripped as it is made of plastic - happened to me but the company sent me another right away at no charge. I paid $275, now it will cost around $325 or so depending where you buy it, plus some internet sites will throw in several Spinervals DVD's on purchase.

    A newer version is the Pro Model which sells for up to $500 depending on the seller - it has two flywheels a 6 lb and a 12 lb(the Road Machine has a 6.25 lb flywheel).

    CycleOps makes a good trainer also and is easier to attach the bike to - for a comparable model the prices are about the same - I think either the Kinetic or the CycleOps woold be a good buy.
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