London Dynamo in Richmond Park - please be more considerate

Ken Night

ugo.santalucia wrote:

London Dynamos... what a laugh... you should have seen how fast they were up the mild ramps of the Bwlch in Wales...
I think I've passed a hundred of them ...

a little birdy has told me that ugo didn't ride The Dragon-this year or last................

ugo.santalucia

Ken Night wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

London Dynamos... what a laugh... you should have seen how fast they were up the mild ramps of the Bwlch in Wales...
I think I've passed a hundred of them ...

a little birdy has told me that ugo didn't ride The Dragon-this year or last................

Don't look for my name on the finish... this is not my name... I don't use my real name on forums. Ugo Santalucia is a fictional character in an old book

Ugo is a funny cool name though, I'd like to be called Ugo!

Ken Night

ugo.santalucia wrote:

mark_d wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

London Dynamos... what a laugh... you should have seen how fast they were up the mild ramps of the Bwlch in Wales...
I think I've passed a hundred of them ...

There were a lot of Dynamo riders in the Dragon Ride, for sure. I came 34th on the long ride and two other members came 6th and 7th. Can't have been going *that* slowly up the Bwlch, eh? :~)

Damn, I knew there were three left....

My little birdy has told me your real name-which I wouldn't divulge here, naturally.
It doesn't appear on the list of Dragon riders.

ugo.santalucia

Ken Night wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

mark_d wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

London Dynamos... what a laugh... you should have seen how fast they were up the mild ramps of the Bwlch in Wales...
I think I've passed a hundred of them ...

There were a lot of Dynamo riders in the Dragon Ride, for sure. I came 34th on the long ride and two other members came 6th and 7th. Can't have been going *that* slowly up the Bwlch, eh? :~)

Damn, I knew there were three left....

My little birdy has told me your real name-which I wouldn't divulge here, naturally.
It doesn't appear on the list of Dragon riders.

Your little birdy must be wrong then... anyway, here they're discussing Richmond Park issues, if you want to talk about the Dragon Ride send me an e-mail at ugo.santalucia@gmail.com

So we don't bother others with these issues

Ken Night

ugo.santalucia wrote:

.......................So we don't bother others with these issues

ugo.santalucia wrote:

London Dynamos... what a laugh... you should have seen how fast they were up the mild ramps of the Bwlch in Wales...
I think I've passed a hundred of them ...

QED

and you didn't put up or shut up when challenged

dombo6

ugo.santalucia wrote:

London Dynamos... what a laugh... you should have seen how fast they were up the mild ramps of the Bwlch in Wales...
I think I've passed a hundred of them ...

Haha! Brilliant. Nearly blew my coffee out of my nose reading that!

Croxted Avenger

I've seen the dynamo riding like pillocks in RP but then I've seen loads of other folk doing this too, but I suppose the difference is the size of the groups and the dynamo group is usually large and fast. I usually ride the park clockwise and I always see them riding anticlockwise, so maybe thats the answer...?

On the Paris-Roubaix sportive a ginger fella in a dynamo jersey went steaming into the last bend before the rest area at the Arenberg at about 30mph and almost took out about 20 riders, so maybe its institutional? :P Seriously Dynamo, I do think you need to work on your PR a bit more cos the general feeling amongst clubs in the smoke is that you're quite an arrogant bunch.

8)

biondino

I know it's not quite fair but this is what the Dynamo always reminds me of:

Gussio

biondino wrote:

I know it's not quite fair but this is what the Dynamo always reminds me of:

It's a scandal!

DaveyL

Where was that photo taken? Looks like Scotland! Maybe the Mennock Pass?

Gavin Gilbert

biondino wrote:

I know it's not quite fair but this is what the Dynamo always reminds me of:

Nah! If that was the Dynamo the 2 at the back would be working so hard to stay with the bunch they'd have their eyes shut. Which I assume is the root of the 'problem'.

I've just calculated that I've spent over £1,200 on chiropractor bills since they shoved me into the verge in September 2007. But I'm more fortunate than a clubmate who hasn't seriously touched a bike since they offed him.....

el_presidente

At Box Hill the other day there were about 50 of them who piled into the cafe queue just before I got there. Unacceptable!

DYNAMITE!

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

Dynamos... inconsiderate arseholes… idiots… I've spent over £1,200 on chiropractor bills since they shoved me into the verge… send another member over here to defend yourselves…

Such passion! Such verve! Such a spirited (if somewhat repetitious) attempt to pass off one-sided opinion as fact! How could I possibly refuse your invitation?

Before I begin, though, here is a question for you: are you the same Gavin Gilbert who was registered as a Dynamo member in 2007?

Gavin Gilbert

DYNAMITE! wrote:

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

Dynamos... inconsiderate arseholes… idiots… I've spent over £1,200 on chiropractor bills since they shoved me into the verge… send another member over here to defend yourselves…

Such passion! Such verve! Such a spirited (if somewhat repetitious) attempt to pass off one-sided opinion as fact! How could I possibly refuse your invitation?

Before I begin, though, here is a question for you: are you the same Gavin Gilbert who was registered as a Dynamo member in 2007?

No I'm not. 1998 to 2006 with the Willesden CC, and from April 2007 onwards with the Archer RC after a brief period of 'retirement'.

I am however aware of another Gavin Gilbert who cycles, I haven't met him but shoved some pennies his way when he was doing a sponsored ride on the TdF Sportive down to Canterbury (try a google on my/his/our name, his Justgiving page pops up near the top of the results list). We are also both customers of Cyclefit, which has caused confusion in the past.

As for repetitious.....whilst the Dynamo keep on riding in the same old way I'll feel the need to trot out the same old complaints. 'Lo I did see them giving hand signals this morning. So there's hope that this topic has caused a ...er.....rethink of road behaviour. We weren't in the Park long enough to experience a full Dynamo buzz-past however.

As for my chiropractors bill. Not opinion, cold hard economic fact matey boy. I would of sent you the invoice, if it wasn't for the end result being being claiming off BC's insurers. And I don't particulary want to have to sue BC.

DYNAMITE!

I am delighted that your identity has been clarified. The money invested in your chiropractor's services was not, of course, the issue I was referring to. But we'll come to that later. In the meantime, here is a second question: after you came off, to whom did you complain?

andyp

I've a question for you Dynamite! Who are you and why don't you feel you can post under your own name?

DYNAMITE!

I'm not sure how you pronounce your name, andyp (an dip? an dipe?) but I thought it was standard practice to use a nom de plume around these parts. In any case, I can assure you more cyclists will know who, or rather what, Dynamite is.

Gavin Gilbert

andyp wrote:

I've a question for you Dynamite! Who are you and why don't you feel you can post under your own name?

True. But then sadly to form on this place. Whilst handles are fine for the run-of-the-mill Soapboxy "your Mum smells like a rats willy" stuff, it gets on my nerves with specific issues. But thanks for pointing it out

Turning to the anonymous Dynamite!

To whom should I of complained? To the Dynamos Secretary? What would I have gotten out of that? A patronising apology at best, or more likely the sort of fuck-off attitude I've had from Dynamo riders when I've directly challenged them in the Park previously?

Or how about the Royal Parks? Or indeed the police? What would that acheive? Another scratch on the list of official complaints that will bring the day we're all barred a little closer?

Or maybe BC? I'm not sure if they have such powers to deal with clubs, and I'm doubtful that what was just a case of numpty riding would merit a sanction. I did think about it the time, and on the evidence from others on this topic I'm considering it again.

And to keep the record straight - when I was shoved into the verge I didn't come off. I brought the bike to a halt under control. It was the jolting I received that caused the injury. The group that caused the incident failed to stop.

DYNAMITE!

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

To whom should I of complained? To the Dynamos Secretary? What would I have gotten out of that? A patronising apology at best, or more likely the sort of fark-off attitude I've had from Dynamo riders when I've directly challenged them in the Park previously?

Now the key word there, Gavin, is "challenged". Because you're a man who likes to throw down a challenge, aren't you? Calling complete strangers "arseholes", referring to me as "matey boy", asking Dynamo to "send another member here" so you can have one more barney. That sort of stuff. Do you see now why you may have been given a "fark-off" attitude?

But let's be positive. As an RP regular, I am sure you already know that Dynamo's rides in the park always end at the same place. So you had the opportunity to voice your complaint to one of the ride leaders in a calmer, post-ride atmosphere, perhaps over a warming cup of coffee and an eccles cake. Or you could have e-mailed the club later. What would you have "gotten" out of that? Well, no-one in Dynamo likes to see another rider get hurt, even if he is Archer's very own Captain Club Run. When we hear that something goes wrong, we try to ensure it doesn't happen again. The relatively few incidents in RP, in relation to the thousands of miles covered by 'Mos, are testament to this. It's called feedback. Whereas thrashing your keyboard to bits on an internet forum is, in my book, called whinging. And please be under no illusion that ranting away on this site can cause a "rethink" – Paul Harknett, one of the nicest people I know and, co-incidentally, the chap who usually briefs groups off on the Parkride, doesn't even frequent these forums.

You're more than welcome to take issue with any of the above, but there are plenty more issues that you have brought up. So here is my next question: just how many members has Archer got? Don't worry – this is not a penis comparison exercise. But I think your answer could reveal how you perceive what we do as a club.

Kléber

I'd think about putting a stop to this guys :twisted:

For some time, drivers and dog walkers alike have been complaining about this park being used as a pretend race track by cyclists, but we've now got to the point where cyclists are attacking each other for bad riding and starting an undignified "flame war" and worse, it's not between riders, it's been clubs. :roll:

I suggest both the posters here and their clubs take this matter seriously and work towards something positive. Slinging insults over a forum makes both sides look pathetic. Talk to each other.

chuckcork

Kléber wrote:

I'd think about putting a stop to this guys :twisted:

For some time, drivers and dog walkers alike have been complaining about this park being used as a pretend race track by cyclists, but we've now got to the point where cyclists are attacking each other for bad riding and starting an undignified "flame war" and worse, it's not between riders, it's been clubs. :roll:

I suggest both the posters here and their clubs take this matter seriously and work towards something positive. Slinging insults over a forum makes both sides look pathetic. Talk to each other.

Ditto.

What will it be next, a turf war next, complaints about non-locals dropping in on your ride and so on, as happens on beaches?

Bad behaviour does no one any favours at all, the park is a recreation resource for all who use it, and that includes not only walkers and drivers but sunday cyclists taking their kids out for a spin in the park, roller bladers etc.

Wise up otherwise we'll all be banned.

ugo.santalucia

I rate pedalling at 30 mph in Richmond park the same as speeding at 120mph on a motorway... it's for cocks really.

There are facilities to speed, even in London. Ever tried the Hillingdon circuit? It's only 12 miles from Richmond park and it's been purposely built for speeding with a bike

Moette

when I was shoved into the verge I didn't come off. I brought the bike to a halt under control. It was the jolting I received that caused the injury. The group that caused the incident failed to stop.

I work in sporting injuries and find this quite interesting - would be keen to understand how a jolt caused when a bike is brought to a stop under control could result in needing £1200 worth of treatment. Would this have aggravated an existing injury or was it a new injury as a result of the jolt?

Also you refer to an accident which caused a cyclist a very serious injury which has resulted in him not returning to cycling. Perhaps obtaining the facts before making wild accusations on a public forum would ensure cycling remains a friendly environment. The incident you refer to was investigated and found to be a very unfortunately accident which could have happened to any cyclist in RP and was no fault on any one person or group of riders.

As suggestioned, perhaps raising your complaints directly with the club rather than venting your frustrations on a public forum would be the more adult approach.

Gavin Gilbert

Moette wrote:

I work in sporting injuries and find this quite interesting - would be keen to understand how a jolt caused when a bike is brought to a stop under control could result in needing £1200 worth of treatment. Would this have aggravated an existing injury or was it a new injury as a result of the jolt?

On second thoughts, if you've got the guts to PM me under your own name I'll give you the address of my Chiropractor and you can ask him yourself.

sylvanus

Gavin, You really do need to chill out a bit. I've been a member of London Dynamo and riden on many of the Sat rides. As others have pointed out it is a big club (I think almost 400 members now) and inevitably there is a huge range of ability amongst the riders. I'm sure you're right that there are occasions that some inexperienced riders pass too close when overtaking but its not endemic and the club is very keen to make sure that other riders and motorists are respected. You can read the Park Ride rulebook here:

http://www.londondynamo.co.uk/downloads ... k_Ride.pdf

I hope you'd agree that the tone and content are pretty humble and safety-conscious. Before many rides a leader will give a pretty firm safety briefing and the ride has been shifted 1/2hr earlier on a Saturday to reduce any impact on other riders or motorists. If you have any comments or changes for that guide then do email them to the club or ask for Paul at the cafe afterwards as others have suggested.

A recent "official" posting on the Dynamo forum has taken your views on board and asks:

1. Give other cyclists bags of room, and do not cut in sharply after you have overtaken.

2. When shouting "RIDER LEFT", do so from some way back, and in the most unthreatening way possible (v difficult I know when you have to shout). It is clear that many cyclists think we are effectively saying "OUT THE WAY, COMING THROUGH YOU SLOWCOACH", and not shouting what is effectively a safety warning for our benefit.

3. So after you've frightened the living daylights out of a fellow cyclist by shouting at him, the least you can do is give them loads of room and greet them. "Morning" or "Hiya" will do. Perhaps a waved (not fingers please) acknowledgement?

Like you I've had two "offs" in Richmond Park, once on ice when alone, the second at some speed when I dropped to the back of the group to flip my chain back on and like an idiot swerved into a wooden post! I hope you won't mind me saying that I find it odd that you could do that much more damage without falling off the bike. I remember you posting about a bad accident in Feb where you slipped on diesel. Was that related? If I'm wrong I apologise and hope nothing like that ever happens again.

To be honest I've come to believe that a lot of the abuse that Dynamo gets is the same slightly chippy banter we read on these forums about Rapha, service at Condor etc and that the common thread is that the poster has some personal "issues" that tell us more about them than about the subject they're posting about. Do remember that a club is no more than a collection of individuals with a common interest and hurling vitriol at them as a group, on an internet forum doesn't make a lot of sense

DYNAMITE!

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

I am sorely tempted to vent that frustation [sic] with my fists. Maybe that would knock the message into your thick skulls that you do not have the right to endanger the safety of other park users

Biff, bang, pow! You know, when I referred to you as Captain Club Run, I didn't really expect you to behave like a misguided superhero. And from where I'm sitting, it's my safety, not that of others, that is potentially being endangered, principally by your knuckles. But I thank you for your honesty, because at least I now have something to show the police should one of our members ever be walloped by an angry clown in a white jersey with a distinctive yellow stripe. Although as a representative of an historically important club, I'm sure you won't let it come to that, will you?

Your forthright response has also provided me with the perfect starting point for the observation I was going to make when I asked you how many members are currently in Archer – and in the absence of an answer, I will have to guess it's a modest amount. Essentially, the point I want to make in this regard is about character. As your frequent use of the A-word suggests, you are of that opinion that Dynamo, as a club, is arrogant and inconsiderate. But in my experience, arrogant arseholes (there, I've said it too) tend to drive most people away. Sometimes they repel others by being openly confrontational. London Dynamo, on the other hand, has attracted hundreds of members without even trying, and I would humbly suggest that part of this success is simply due to being nice to others. Happiness, Gavin, begets happiness. Friendliness helps you make friends. And the poster who reckons that our little tete-a-tete is a "flame war" should note that to qualify as such, both sides would have to be unconscionably angry. I hope to have demonstrated that this side, at least, is not burning with any rage, despite the provocation.

I won't bother repeating what has already been said about how the club ensures its rides are safe and responsible, but I would also ask you to imagine how much less pleasant Richmond Park would be if you had to negotiate dozens of inexperienced cyclists attempting to ride in a group, many of them for the first time, without the benefit of any guidance or supervision. Because if Dynamo hadn't shouldered that responsibility by coming along just as the 'Armstrong effect' triggered an influx of new cyclists, that's probably what would have happened.

It's quite clear that after more than 3,500 posts you have still to master the skill of producing a coherent argument, so I'll end our brief skirmish and put you out of your misery by clearing up some of the other nonsense you've been propagating. You claim – and it is quite a claim – that we routinely bully disabled riders, yet in six years of doing the Parkride I have never seen nor heard of this happening. Ever. You maintain the police have only recently started enforcing the 20mph limit and Dynamo is responsible for this, but it is perfectly clear that officers have enforced the limit since its inception. You are of the opinion that Dynamo has only one decent rider, when a cursory glance at the national rankings tells a very different story (and, incidentally, Archer is noticeable by its absence). You cling to the belief that "Dynamo will get us all barred from group riding in the park", completely unaware that the club has regular meetings with the police and the Royal Parks' Authority to foster good relations as well as making sure cyclists' interests are heard. In light of all the above, your claim that a Dynamo is responsible for injuring you is looking somewhat unconvincing, especially as your response to another poster suggests you will only let your chiropractor verify how much money you have given him, rather than give his opinion on the likely cause of your injuries.

And I'm not hiding behind an alias. Do what you should have done in the first place, Gavin: go to the cafe by Roehampton Gate one Saturday, and speak to some Dynamos. The chances are someone will point me out. There is actually a 'Mo who shares my name, but I can assure you there is only one Dynamite.

urrrrrrrrrs

personally I cant see what the attraction is in bombing it around the park for a few laps,restricted to a speed limit ,when just 30 odd minutes South you have the beautiful Surrey lanes & hills with views to match,

toontra

DYNAMITE! wrote:

You cling to the belief that "Dynamo will get us all barred from group riding in the park", completely unaware that the club has regular meetings with the police and the Royal Parks' Authority to foster good relations as well as making sure cyclists' interests are heard.

Just out of interest, how do you manage to avoid the fines when you spend over 50% of your time over the 20 mph speed limit? - others aren't so lucky. Do you have an "arrangement" covering the Saturday morning group ride? Or is it simply a matter of safety in numbers?

Greenbank

Many of the problems stem from the differences between a solo rider with no club riding experience and a bunch of experienced club riders.

Club riders should remember that many other riders on the road:

* will have no idea what "rider left" or any of the other calls mean. You may as well be shouting "argle bargle" at them.
* may be spooked/annoyed when something they don't understand is shouted at them
* have no experience of riding in close formation. They expect at least a couple of feet space to their right when being passed. Club riders often forget this and pass much closer.

It's not the fault of the non-experienced rider that they don't understand the terminology or aren't used to riding closely. Thinking that it's their fault for being inexperienced is one of the main reasons that club cyclists can come over as arrogant c*cks.

Kléber

I'd suggest changing the "rider left" shout as it might be the rider in front as seen you coming and think's he's being told to move further to the left. "Group right" might help or just use hand signals.

Remember, DYNAMITE!, that the thread was started by someone else knocked by your club mates and others then said they'd had the same experience. All this before the flame war with Gavin Gilbert started. Maybe they heard the shouts and took them the wrong way?

Try to keep the provocative comments down ("angry white clowns" etc) and to stop making this a club vs club debate (talk of rankings, membership levels). :?

Why not swap phone numbers and arrange to meet for a beer. I doubt GG wants to approach you surrounded by your club mates but an evening in a pub or just a chat on the phone might be good, no?